Gerry Adams for President?

Permabear

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RiverWilde

TOMASJ wrote: »

The majority of people in the 32 county's and a large percentage of people living in the six county's consider the six county's of Ulster occupied by a foreign country,
And the six county's is not a country (it an occupied statlet) of another country - a bit like Gibraltar.

The south has recognised the democratic rights of the people in the north. So long as the majority of the people in the north consider themselves British and part of the United Kingdom then that's the way it is. You mightn't like, I may not like it but that's the way it is. Democracy ftw!

Riv

TOMASJ

[quote=RiverWilde;

A bit like Gibraltar? Where the hell did you get that one from. Argentina wants to annex the territory of a sovereign state. (Nevermind the fact that the residents of Gibraltar have almost nothing in common with Argentinans

What are you on about?

RiverWilde

Dammit I had the wrong bit of geography in mind lol I was thinking of the Falklands lol. How I managed to confuse Gibraltar with the Falklands I don't know. Anyway, Gibraltar is a different story. Although, I'm sure the people living on Gibraltar don't consider themselves spanish. Again, so long as they're happy to be British then it's irrelevant what the spaniards think of them.

Riv

TOMASJ

donegalfella wrote: »

The Norman conquest of Ireland ended in 1172. The monarch of England was either the lord or monarch of all Ireland from that time until 1949, and has ruled over Northern Ireland ever since. After 836 years under an English monarch—a longer consecutive period, incidentally, than either Scotland or Wales—it seems rather silly to say that Northern Ireland is "occupied by a foreign country."

Ulster was planted and the nine were divided into six county's, as to have this artificial majority, it does not matter how you try to package it,
Its occupied by the English crown forces, against the will of the majority of Irish citizens in the 32 countys.

Nodin

Liam Byrne wrote: »

"Emotive language" ??? I was just stating facts..

No, you were indulging in inflamatory emotional rhetoric.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

"
I think this has been mentioned already.....should we be THAT grateful that someone sat down to agree to stop doing what they shouldn't have been doing ? ..

....making the judgement that shouldn't have been doing what they were doing. And as has been observed, it worked for Mandela and many others throught history, theres no reason Gerry and co should be singled out.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

"
Aside from the above (which was basically correcting an issue that he and his kind helped to create), ..

You'll find that that most of the period of the Northern Statelet involved a deeply and institutionally sectarian discrimination against catholics, of which sect Adams and co nominally belong.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

In the context of the thread, I'd much rather vote for - and be represented by - someone who was never photographed or associated with murderers than someone who finally decided to stop.

Well, according to many in this country - and indeed around the world - George Bush Jr, Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair, Benjamin Netanyahu, Vladmir Putin and Wen Jiabao are described with the emotional language you use - "murderers" and "thugs". They also most of them have a good case to back it up. Does association and photographs with any of these disqualify them from your support also?

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RiverWilde

We are living in the here and now ... not 100 or 200 or how many years into the past you'd like to go. Dredging up old wounds and going over them again and again is a pointless exercise and frankly as we were not there at the time cannot fully appreciate what the hell happened back then. None of us alive today were ever considered at the time and sitting here wringing our hands and hopping up and down in indignation for past insults is regressive.

As things stand we live on an island divided into two countries the Republic of Ireland and on the top bit we have Northern Ireland. The majority of that population consider themselves to be part of the UK. What would you have them do? They're Irish, British and part of the UK. If they don't want to secede from the UK they don't have to. We're all European citizens, entitled to live and work in any part of the Union. Our laws are harmonising on an almost daily basis. The people on this island have done some fairly despicable things to each other over the centuries, we can either draw a line in the sand and move on or continue the bloody internecine conflict. One thing is for sure the rocks and mountains don't give a damn what we do. Life is too short for sectarian or other nastiness.

Riv

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oscarBravo

This thread is about the process by which presidential candidates are nominated. Discussions about the politics of Northern Ireland are off topic.

TOMASJ

donegalfella wrote: »

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Does not change the fact that the six countys are still occupied against the will of the people of the 32 countys, by the English (by force).

TOMASJ

As things stand we live on an island divided into two countries

Now your getting it (divided in two) by the English, against the wishes of the Irish majority (Cause of problem)

LordSutch

Graham Norton for President ?

RiverWilde

Graham Norton? Would he even take the job seriously? He'd just camp it up and drive the right wingers insane lol Em ... maybe not the best choice. Although he would bridge the religious divide lol :rolleyes:

Riv

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bmaxi

It is easy and convenient to cherry pick history to suit our own aspirations. It is rarely mentioned that Pope Innocent was an ally of King William of Orange in his war against King James or that, apart from Wexford, the only significant rebellion in 1798 was by Protestants in Antrim. This latter was crushed when Catholics failed to support them as promised. If national territory is determined by whoever holds it at any particular time then we should remember that there were people in Ireland before the Celts/ Gaels arrived, should we take the argument to extremes and say the country should belong to the Fir Bolg or whoever.
Conquest of territory for economic, subsistence, defence etc. reasons has been a fact of life since man has discovered he could drive his neighbour away with a stick.

LordSutch

I thought Mary Robinson was very good, shame she cant come back into the role . . .

oscarBravo

Next person to drag the politics or history of NI into this gets a ban. No excuses.

donegalfella, leave the moderating to the mods, ta.

TOMASJ

I think Tim Pat Coogan would make an wonderful President a very knowledgeable and warm individual with a good grasp on the goings on in our country.

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TOMASJ

donegalfella wrote: »

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No a do not think that is fair, nore is the fact (although I am a bit reluctant to state it here in case oscarBravo gives me another infraction) -that because hail from the six countys of Ireland I can not vote for our president.

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cson

donegalfella wrote: »

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Exactly what I'm getting at. Unfortunately I've been the author of this threads downfall myself by usung Adams as an example.

I think having studied it, the aspect I criticise most about the nomination process is that it is very much politically aligned despite the obvious intention for the post to be an apolitical one.

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TOMASJ

donegalfella

The fact that you can't vote for the candidate doesn't mean you can't take an interest in the nominations process and canvass for your candidate of choice. Plenty of Irish people were supporting Barack Obama through the primaries and presidential campaign, for instance, and some were even canvassing for him, even though Irish citizens can't vote in U.S. elections.

Read you post again from Irish citizen from the six countys prospective, Barack Obama was elected in America by Americans,
How many American people were excluded (even those living in foreign countrys) from voting for their president?
I (at the moment) can not vote for Ian Paisley or Gerry Adams if either stand for election to be president in my country.

oscarBravo

TOMASJ wrote: »

How many American people were excluded (even those living in foreign countrys) from voting for their president?

Thousands, for all sorts of reasons.

I (at the moment) can not vote for Ian Paisley or Gerry Adams if either stand for election to be president in my country.

Neither can my brother who lives in London. Them's the rules.

cson

TOMASJ wrote: »

donegalfella
Read you post again from Irish citizen from the six countys prospective

You must be ordinarily resident in the Republic, thus this would perclude you it seems.

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TOMASJ

[quote=oscarBravo;

Neither can my brother who lives in London. Them's the rules.

Your brother is living in a foreign country England,You would not expect him to be able to vote while living there, or Iraq or any other foreign land,
I live in Ireland, in the occupied bit and at the moment --(though Sinn Fein are trying to make changes to them rules) have no say in who is elected in my own land of birth.

Permabear

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