Heat Pumps - post here.

BarneyMc

The outside part of my HP (the fan part) was fitted at the back of my house but every time I go to my back door I get the full blast of it!! I'm gutted my installer didn't inform me of the blast I would be getting.

Did anyone mount their HP high up on an outside wall? This might be my best move. I know I've the issue of a drip tray and get the run off into a down pipe but I have that (see attached pic). My thoughts are to raise it straight up the wall above the window rather than below. All thoughts welcome.

MENACE2010

BarneyMc wrote: »

The outside part of my HP (the fan part) was fitted at the back of my house but every time I go to my back door I get the full blast of it!! I'm gutted my installer didn't inform me of the blast I would be getting.

Did anyone mount their HP high up on an outside wall? This might be my best move. I know I've the issue of a drip tray and get the run off into a down pipe but I have that (see attached pic). My thoughts are to raise it straight up the wall above the window rather than below. All thoughts welcome.

Maybe easier to mount a deflector next to the door. So you don't get the blast. Ps ensure that the pump is decoupled some how otherwise you will hear it through the house.

Wegian

BarneyMc wrote: »

The outside part of my HP (the fan part) was fitted at the back of my house but every time I go to my back door I get the full blast of it!! I'm gutted my installer didn't inform me of the blast I would be getting.

Did anyone mount their HP high up on an outside wall? This might be my best move. I know I've the issue of a drip tray and get the run off into a down pipe but I have that (see attached pic). My thoughts are to raise it straight up the wall above the window rather than below. All thoughts welcome.

Have you a garage out the back you could fix it to?

BarneyMc

MENACE2010 wrote: »

Maybe easier to mount a deflector next to the door. So you don't get the blast. Ps ensure that the pump is decoupled some how otherwise you will hear it through the house.

I don't think a deflector would work. It's still going to catch you when you walk past the deflector.

BarneyMc

Wegian wrote: »

Have you a garage out the back you could fix it to?

I could but it's a bit too far away and would be worried about the loss in efficiency.

Big Dec

Hi all,

I'm having issues with keeping house cool(ish) during very warm days & it was suggested to me about using the brine loop for my heat pump to chill the incoming air for my HRV system.
Has anyone come across anything like this before?
Seems like a good idea once you get all of the controls & condensate sorted.
In my case, it would go on the incoming feed, just before the HRV.
You could use some sort of cooling battery & then use a diverter valve to run brine through the battery with existing brine circulation pump.
I had never thought about this before, so just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?

Condenser

Big Dec wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm having issues with keeping house cool(ish) during very warm days & it was suggested to me about using the brine loop for my heat pump to chill the incoming air for my HRV system.
Has anyone come across anything like this before?
Seems like a good idea once you get all of the controls & condensate sorted.
In my case, it would go on the incoming feed, just before the HRV.
You could use some sort of cooling battery & then use a diverter valve to run brine through the battery with existing brine circulation pump.
I had never thought about this before, so just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?

We do it regularly. You need to fit a cooling coil on the supply line after the hrv. This will have its own condensate tray. You'll also need a pump and 2 way valve.

BarneyMc

BarneyMc wrote: »

The outside part of my HP (the fan part) was fitted at the back of my house but every time I go to my back door I get the full blast of it!! I'm gutted my installer didn't inform me of the blast I would be getting.

Did anyone mount their HP high up on an outside wall? This might be my best move. I know I've the issue of a drip tray and get the run off into a down pipe but I have that (see attached pic). My thoughts are to raise it straight up the wall above the window rather than below. All thoughts welcome.

I just spoke to the installer and he said 80% of people place them at their front door so they get the blast every time they come out that door. I find that hard to believe!

Wegian

BarneyMc wrote: »

I could but it's a bit too far away and would be worried about the loss in efficiency.

You can run the lines to it with insulated piping, Qualpex, which would reduce the efficiency loss but is quite expensive

Water John

Yeah, would suggest putting it against the garage wall. Piping is about €40/metre.

Wegian

Water John wrote: »

Yeah, would suggest putting it against the garage wall. Piping is about €40/metre.

Well sugar, Plumber quoted 25 to me, another few bobs gone from my budget so :eek:

Water John

Could be that. I might be pricing 4 pipe rather than 2 pipe. Considering the price of the overall installation I don't understand skimping on this, just for a few metres of insulated piping.

murphaph

BarneyMc wrote: »

The outside part of my HP (the fan part) was fitted at the back of my house but every time I go to my back door I get the full blast of it!! I'm gutted my installer didn't inform me of the blast I would be getting.

Did anyone mount their HP high up on an outside wall? This might be my best move. I know I've the issue of a drip tray and get the run off into a down pipe but I have that (see attached pic). My thoughts are to raise it straight up the wall above the window rather than below. All thoughts welcome.

How much of a gap is there between heat pump and house there Barney? Our Atec has to have 40cm clearance behind it to allow an unobstructed air flow. Yours looks tight there in the pic. I'd also look at decoupling that from your house. The low frequency vibration is unpleasant. Most advice I seem to see on the net over here is to not fix it to the dwelling at all and build a separate foundation for it.

BarneyMc

murphaph wrote: »

How much of a gap is there between heat pump and house there Barney? Our Atec has to have 40cm clearance behind it to allow an unobstructed air flow. Yours looks tight there in the pic. I'd also look at decoupling that from your house. The low frequency vibration is unpleasant. Most advice I seem to see on the net over here is to not fix it to the dwelling at all and build a separate foundation for it.

No it's not tight at all, there's at least a few inches if not more from my recollection.

damanloox

Hi,

I've a quick question re: heat pumps... What if there's electricity failure in the middle of winter that lasts for a day or two and the heat pump is the only source of heating...?
That might sound silly but I'm going to buy a house where heat pump is the only heating source and I've 3 week old baby (and the winter is coming...)

murphaph

damanloox wrote: »

Hi,

I've a quick question re: heat pumps... What if there's electricity failure in the middle of winter that lasts for a day or two and the heat pump is the only source of heating...?
That might sound silly but I'm going to buy a house where heat pump is the only heating source and I've 3 week old baby (and the winter is coming...)

If you're lucky the hot water tank will be fairly full and you can ration it. If it's a well insulated, airtight house with UFH then the place will hold the heat for a couple of days if you keep your windows and doors closed. If it's not then it'll cool down as quickly as any other house and you'll need a super ser. Is the possibility there to add a small wood burning stove to provide a backup?

By the way a boiler based system would be knocked out as well as the circulation pump needs electricity even if you could start the boiler without it.

The issue here isn't the heat pump but that you've no backup.

Water John

Well a jenny is another option. Run it a few hours each day to operate HP.
As Damian says, would always prefer to have some sort of alt heat source.

sheff the ref

Id say an investment in a generator would be a wise option. Might only use it sparingly but it certainly would save a lot of headaches.

However it is best to have a solid fuel source of heat as to be 100% reliant on electricity is not ideal. Most power cuts are in winter and in bad weather which means they dont get to restore power quickly

murphaph wrote: »

If you're lucky the hot water tank will be fairly full and you can ration it. If it's a well insulated, airtight house with UFH then the place will hold the heat for a couple of days if you keep your windows and doors closed. If it's not then it'll cool down as quickly as any other house and you'll need a super ser. Is the possibility there to add a small wood burning stove to provide a backup?

By the way a boiler based system would be knocked out as well as the circulation pump needs electricity even if you could start the boiler without it.

The issue here isn't the heat pump but that you've no backup.

sheff the ref

Is there any advantage to placing an air to water heatpump inside a lean to shed with one open side off the back of the garage. Would it be sheltered from lower temperatures and therefore become more efficient?

BarneyMc wrote: »

I just spoke to the installer and he said 80% of people place them at their front door so they get the blast every time they come out that door. I find that hard to believe!

Water John

Sheff, no, remember your HP is drawing heat from the passing air. Sheltering it will make it less efficient.

Remember, the jenny would need to be a fairly serious hitter.

sheff the ref

In that case then there are two choices if you dont want to overwork an Air to Water heatpump

1.Ground Source

2.Air Source but allow provision to heat the house using solid fuel and back boiler during cold snaps. This should reduce heatpump use during this time and the heatpump could be set to maintain a lower temperature

I still think that a ground source heatpump has less variables to go wrong but the cost of a horizontal array or a borehole is the big expense here

Water John wrote: »

Sheff, no, remember your HP is drawing heat from the passing air. Sheltering it will make it less efficient.

Remember, the jenny would need to be a fairly serious hitter.

optimal

Hi guys.
I'm a newbie here but have read through the posts. Some fantastic info and helpful people.

I have a bit of a problem with my water to water heat pump. It quite old, a Genie. It is cutting out after 3/4 hour to an hour. I think that the heat is being extracted from the external circuit but is not getting transferred into the UFH circuit.

Anyone any ideas?

I can't seem to find anyone that knows about these.

Water John

If your in the midlands I suggest contacting Enviritech. Don't know if they are active now.

That may be simply a circulating pump. Most likely culprit, not the Genie.

optimal

Thanks John. I am in south midlands.
I think the circulating pump is ok - you have me doubting it now though, so I will have a look at it.

Don't think that company are still on the go.

I was an early adopter - sometimes not the best place to be!!

Shefwedfan

Just checking if anyone has heard or using an internal air to water heat pump? I am looking at alternative to solar for heating water and got recommendation from company for Kronoterm Eco2Line

So you install the unit into a room in house and it pulls the warm air from room to heat the water. You can also pipe that it blows the cold air out to cool rooms. Sounds very interesting but I have no references....

Water John

In what country are you where you can pull heat from the inside of a house to heat water???

gctest50

Water John wrote: »

In what country are you where you can pull heat from the inside of a house to heat water???

Near California maybe ? except your cold water will be warm anyway so no point

murphaph

Actually these things are pretty common here in Germany. Eg
http://www.viessmann.de/de/wohngebaeude/waermepumpe/warmwasser-waermepumpen/vitocal-161-a.html

For some reason they don't show that product on their UK website.

You can run it standalone where it pulls the air in from the room it's installed in or duct exhaust air from bathrooms and kitchens to it.

I think such a unit is more suitable for summer time when the main heating is off and the house is too warm anyway. Depending on how much they cost of course. Running it in winter when the heating is on seems counterproductive to me however.

Water John

That's why I asked what country. It could be used as a sort of air conditioning to lower the temp in a house in a hot climate in summer time.

Shefwedfan

Hi guys

I am in the country Ireland, you might have heard of it...funny sort of place

Was sent this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ft8KfVSqfU

We run the immersion switch 24 x 7 so lookign at alternative....asked the plumber and he doesn't know enough about them....

We do have zoned so we can just heat water using boiler. But we are heavy on oil as house is over 3000 sq ft

Water John

Watched two of the videos. The dairy farm one shows drawing waste heat from electric motors and vacuum pumps to heat water. That is waste heat to water.

The second on laying UFH shows a retro fit. It uses a dry mix. I would not use circuits greater than 100M. Prefer pex al pex pipe. Suggest the use of a spinner if you are rolling out, lowers risk of accidentally kinking pipe.

Heatpump

Hi
Watched the video, This is an Aerothermal heat pump that is located on top of a storage tank which takes the outside air into the heatpump and exhausts the chilled air to the outside, also without ducting you can use the heat in your house to supply air to the heat pump, generally these are under 3kw capacity.

Don't heat pump clothes dryers also use the air in the house ?

Water John

Don't know their mechanism. Yes they use the air from the house and send just recycle it. Don't think they draw their heat from that air. Open to correction.

Water John

Water John wrote: »

Don't know their mechanism. Yes they use the air from the house and send just recycle it. Don't think they draw their heat from that air. Open to correction.

I think you're thinking of condenser dryers ?

Water John

The HP is an upgrade of a condensor.

The condenser just turns the steam to water so you don't need a vent.

murphaph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The condenser just turns the steam to water so you don't need a vent.

A heat pump drier is a condensing drier that instead of pumping warm (but dry) air out, it extracts the energy from this warm air (using a heat pump) and uses it to preheat the air entering the drum. The exhausted air is therefore colder (but still dry) from a heat pump drier. The heat pump drier is still a condensing drier though, just with heat recovery in the form of a heat pump.

romanticjoe

Hi All,

Looking for a quick bit of advice, moved into a new house with a Panasonic Aquarea air to water heat system which provides heating and heats water. The house is A3 rated so should be easy to heat but we're not feeling the full effect of the heating that we thought we would. We have the thermostat at 25 degrees to feel some genuine heat coming out of the radiators. The heating is zoned with two zones, upstairs and downstairs and when we put both on at the same time, the radiators barely get luke warm and feels like it would be impossible for them to heat the house. If you turn off one zone, you can hear more power go to the radiators in the zone that is on and they become much warmer. Just wondering if anyone else is using a similar system and has experienced something similar when having the two zones on at the same time?

Regards,
Romanticjoe

froshtyv

Setting your thermostats to 25°C will have no effect on how warm your radiators get, this is determined by the flow temperature setting on the heat pump. The thermostat is basically a switch to turn on or off the heat pump, based on the room temperature.
Is it radiators throughout the house? I am assuming aluminium?
To "feel" any heat from the radiators you would need a flow temperature of at least 40°C
If the radiators were sized adequately than a lower flow temperature would suffice, but the rads will never feel hot like from an oil fired system, this isnt how they are designed. You would probably have to run the radiators for longer at a lower temperature to achieve the heat you require in the rooms.

How many thermostat do you have in the house? I am assuming 2, one up stairs and one down stairs?

romanticjoe wrote: »

Hi All,

Looking for a quick bit of advice, moved into a new house with a Panasonic Aquarea air to water heat system which provides heating and heats water. The house is A3 rated so should be easy to heat but we're not feeling the full effect of the heating that we thought we would. We have the thermostat at 25 degrees to feel some genuine heat coming out of the radiators. The heating is zoned with two zones, upstairs and downstairs and when we put both on at the same time, the radiators barely get luke warm and feels like it would be impossible for them to heat the house. If you turn off one zone, you can hear more power go to the radiators in the zone that is on and they become much warmer. Just wondering if anyone else is using a similar system and has experienced something similar when having the two zones on at the same time?

Regards,
Romanticjoe

romanticjoe

Thanks Froshtyv. Yes, the radiators upstairs and downstairs only get luke warm when both are on at the same time, I cant see how it would heat the room. The radiators are aluminium yes, same as this link (http://www.sweeneyrenewables.com/news/item/the-benefits-of-aluminium-radiators). What should the flow temperature be set to as standard or best practice?
We realise they will not be as hot as conventional radiators but it just feels like it would take an age to heat a room with the temperature we are getting off them, maybe this is part of the energy efficiency? Also, with the design of the radiator, should the bottom third be cooler than near the top? This seems to be the way on them all. We have two thermostats yes, one upstairs and one downstairs.

froshtyv wrote: »

Setting your thermostats to 25°C will have no effect on how warm your radiators get, this is determined by the flow temperature setting on the heat pump. The thermostat is basically a switch to turn on or off the heat pump, based on the room temperature.
Is it radiators throughout the house? I am assuming aluminium?
To "feel" any heat from the radiators you would need a flow temperature of at least 40°C
If the radiators were sized adequately than a lower flow temperature would suffice, but the rads will never feel hot like from an oil fired system, this isnt how they are designed. You would probably have to run the radiators for longer at a lower temperature to achieve the heat you require in the rooms.

How many thermostat do you have in the house? I am assuming 2, one up stairs and one down stairs?

Water John

Not that familiar with alu rads running off A2W. But similar to UFH, I suspect they are more designed to mantain temp, rather than having on/off. Esp in an A rated house, the actual capacity of the system installed may be low.

froshtyv

The correct flow temperature for the radiators will depend on how they radiators were sized at design stage. The radiator should have been sized to overcome the heat loss in the area it is located. The smaller the radiator the higher the flow temperature will have to be to achieve a satisfactory output. This will then impact on the running cost of the heat pump. They are less efficient as you start to increase their flow temperature.

After the radiator has been on for a period of time it should be the same temperature all over. Possible air in the radiator if its not.

How long do you run the radiators when heating the house?

romanticjoe wrote: »

Thanks Froshtyv. Yes, the radiators upstairs and downstairs only get luke warm when both are on at the same time, I cant see how it would heat the room. The radiators are aluminium yes, same as this link (http://www.sweeneyrenewables.com/news/item/the-benefits-of-aluminium-radiators). What should the flow temperature be set to as standard or best practice?
We realise they will not be as hot as conventional radiators but it just feels like it would take an age to heat a room with the temperature we are getting off them, maybe this is part of the energy efficiency? Also, with the design of the radiator, should the bottom third be cooler than near the top? This seems to be the way on them all. We have two thermostats yes, one upstairs and one downstairs.

romanticjoe

Yes i wouldn't be too keen on putting the temperature flow up too much as the bills would rise obviously and gets away from the point of the energy efficient system.

We would have them on for an average of 2 hours of a cold evening maybe to heat the house

froshtyv wrote: »

The correct flow temperature for the radiators will depend on how they radiators were sized at design stage. The radiator should have been sized to overcome the heat loss in the area it is located. The smaller the radiator the higher the flow temperature will have to be to achieve a satisfactory output. This will then impact on the running cost of the heat pump. They are less efficient as you start to increase their flow temperature.

After the radiator has been on for a period of time it should be the same temperature all over. Possible air in the radiator if its not.

How long do you run the radiators when heating the house?

Water John

If you are doing it that way, I'd be sure to have it kick in well before the temp starts to drop in the house.

My preference would be to have it on and controlled by programmable thermostats. With set back, at night.

MENACE2010

i

romanticjoe wrote: »

Hi All,

Looking for a quick bit of advice, moved into a new house with a Panasonic Aquarea air to water heat system which provides heating and heats water. The house is A3 rated so should be easy to heat but we're not feeling the full effect of the heating that we thought we would. We have the thermostat at 25 degrees to feel some genuine heat coming out of the radiators. The heating is zoned with two zones, upstairs and downstairs and when we put both on at the same time, the radiators barely get luke warm and feels like it would be impossible for them to heat the house. If you turn off one zone, you can hear more power go to the radiators in the zone that is on and they become much warmer. Just wondering if anyone else is using a similar system and has experienced something similar when having the two zones on at the same time?

Regards,
Romanticjoe

Hi ,
It would seem to me ..but this is an educated guess that your water temperature is set to low at the pump and or you have some pluming issues.:eek:..if with one zone you state it gets warmer but with two zones all the rads are too cold there is something not set right ( I hear you say " no **** sherlock")

We have a heat pump with underfloor and have now disabled the stats.. and I have disabled "set-back" , so the pump only now in theory has to "top up " the heat of the floor . ( this is an experiment , if my usage is going to skyrocket i'm back at setback settings)

My advise .. set all thermostats open ( = high temperature) increase the temperature of the heat-pump flow until you have warm rads everywhere ..see where that leads to ..

What is the size of the water tank .. eg if the pump gets busy making hot water your heating is off as well ? something to consider ..

rolion

Hi Joe,

How do you find the Aquarea working for you ?
What type of system you have,is it noisy,working fine ?
Is the model that has the wireless mobile app ?

I will appreciate any feedback,please,as i'm looking to place an order for a Aquarea 6Kw.
Heard is a bit noisy and i have to install it on top of the kitchen small roof,at the back of the house,beside my bedroom window.

Regards

romanticjoe wrote: »

Looking for a quick bit of advice, moved into a new house with a Panasonic Aquarea air to water heat system which provides heating and heats water.

Water John

Is there a 6Kw? I only see 5 or 7. The db at 50 is only a low purr, from the spec.

Clseeper

Yeap - the 6kW Aquarea is a monobloc unit. 5 & 7kW are part of the Bi Bloc units.

rolion

Water John wrote: »

Is there a 6Kw? I only see 5 or 7. The db at 50 is only a low purr, from the spec.