Heat Pumps - post here.

Philburns

jpogorman wrote:

Beginners air-to-water question: For an air-to-water system, do you need an alternative hot water source such as solar for the summer months or can the air-to-water be configured to heat just the hot water in summer?

The system I have does has two "zones". One zone is the heating, in my case through radiators, the second is the domestic hot water. In the summer when there is no need for heating it does a great job of just keeping the water hot for very little cost.

New Build 2015

What 10kw Heat Pump would you install in a new build? Air to Water, Geothermal or a Moisture to Water Heat Pump from that big german manufacture. Finding it very difficult to decide between them all.

FiOT

New Build 2015 wrote: »

What 10kw Heat Pump would you install in a new build? Air to Water, Geothermal or a Moisture to Water Heat Pump from that big german manufacture. Finding it very difficult to decide between them all.

Not a expert but here's my experience!

We were in the same position as yourself in deciding, there really are so many options. We spoke with lots of different companies about lots of different options.

We got our provisional BER done so we knew the heat demand of our new build first and this helped companies to accurately determine what type/spec heat pump we would need. We kind of felt in the end when we got all of our information that geothermal wasn't worth the extra money upfront. Due to the low heat demand of our build, we'd be a long time seeing the money back - if ever! One of the companies told us that the savings in heating bills with geothermal over air to water would only be about 70/80e a year. Obviously, that may not be right and motives may be questioned with that info but from my own research, they seem to be not far off the mark!

I suppose a question I would have is how you know you need a 10kw heat pump before you've decided which one you're going for? The size of your heat pump surely varies from system to system, house to house. Again, I could be wrong!

One thing about air to water heat pumps too that I found was that some models achieve the Part L compliance on their own whereas some require extra renewables too (PV or Solar) to meet the regs. The one we went with will achieve the regs on it's own so no need for anything else which is fab - one less moving part in the process!

Talk to companies and see what they're offering and I can't stress enough how important it is to go with a reputable company, I have read horror stories on here.

Best of luck!

New Build 2015

Hi FiOT,

Thanks for your reply. Can you PM me who you went with?

Beene

Fiot, can you pm me who you went with also? Interested that you could achieve part L compliance without solar panels.

FiOT

Done

ml100

FiOT wrote: »

Done

If you don't mind can you pm me too, at the same stage here.

Wegian

Does anyone with a Heat Pump in for an extended period of time advise on

- Annual Service Costs?
- Annual Running Costs?
- Any info on lifespan of components?

335i

Wegian wrote: »

Does anyone with a Heat Pump in for an extended period of time advise on

- Annual Service Costs?
- Annual Running Costs?
- Any info on lifespan of components?

I have mine in for 10 years now. Have only had someone out once to look at it as 2 sensors needed changing and they didn't charge for the call out.

Wegian

335i wrote: »

I have mine in for 10 years now. Have only had someone out once to look at it as 2 sensors needed changing and they didn't charge for the call out.

Nice one. Is it an Air to Water or Ground Source?

335i

Wegian wrote: »

Nice one. Is it an Air to Water or Ground Source?

It's a ground source. Waterkotte is the brand.

Wegian

335i wrote: »

It's a ground source. Waterkotte is the brand.

Thanks! Have you ever measured annual running costs?

ecowise

Wegian wrote: »

Does anyone with a Heat Pump in for an extended period of time advise on

- Annual Service Costs?
- Annual Running Costs?
- Any info on lifespan of components?

We installed a ground source heat pump in our new build in late 2001 with underfloor heating. It is a fairly basic unit called a Genie that was made by a company in Cork that folded shortly afterwards. The quality of the installation was quite poor but the system has worked well enough in spite of that. The collector circulation pump failed in 2014 and had to be replaced. This failure was probably, at least in part, induced by air in the collector circuit due to brine leakage. I usually have to top up the circuit a number of times during the heating season due to fluid loss but this should not be necessary if properly plumbed.
The running costs for heating our 250 m2 house is of the order of €200 per annum using night rate electricity and we supplement our heating with a wood stove (using our own wood) when needed. The house is well insulated (u value around 0.15), reasonably airtight and benefits from good solar gain.
Our unit has a nominal rating of 12kW and we only run it at night. If I could redo the installation I would put in a 7kW unit and let it run during the heating season for the full 24 hours under thermostat control only. I would also put in extra underfloor insulation which is the one facet that is significantly under insulated (u value c. 0.3).

KCross

Wegian wrote: »

Does anyone with a Heat Pump in for an extended period of time advise on

- Annual Service Costs?
- Annual Running Costs?
- Any info on lifespan of components?

- Ground source geothermal in since 2012, no service costs thus far.
- €700-€800 per year which includes hot water for 350sqm house
- Obviously I can't say for sure but it would be expected to last at least 20yrs with the main component to go being the compressor, which is not that expensive to replace, if it lasts 20yrs.

rolion

Hi,

Reading and doing my home work here...

Can anyone tells the approximately price for an air to water heat pump, single phase, around 10Kw,outside mounting !?

Can I use it only for heating radiators and UFH, average temperature of 20-25", without getting the boiler connected ? Also, without a storage cylinder.

Home well insulated,I have solar panels and MHRV, looking to enjoy freedom off the grid/suppliers.

Thanks in advance.

pieman123

Hi all,

Been looking through the forum and was wondering has anyone been using a Thermia Heat Pump? I'm just starting specing for a new build and that is what was recommended to me by my engineer/BER. The house will be A3 rated at least will a large open living/dining/kitchen. The heat pump will be 11kw with UFH on the ground and first floor. Any advice much appreciated as my head is wrecked trying to find if they are any good!

Pieman

ecowise

pieman123 wrote: »

Hi all,

Been looking through the forum and was wondering has anyone been using a Thermia Heat Pump? I'm just starting specing for a new build and that is what was recommended to me by my engineer/BER. The house will be A3 rated at least will a large open living/dining/kitchen. The heat pump will be 11kw with UFH on the ground and first floor. Any advice much appreciated as my head is wrecked trying to find if they are any good!

Pieman

I can't speak from experience of Thermia but I see there are numerous references to them on this site (if you have not already done so do a search in Google: thermia site:boards.ie and it will bring them up). While getting a good heat pump unit is important it should be remembered that it is only part of a system and the overall system design and installation are probably more important because there are any number if quality HP units that will do the job (so I would not get hung up on one brand) but the system design and installation are specific to your build.

ArraMusha

Is there a comparison website for heatpumps or has anyone done a detailed comparison of the main models for sale in Ireland.
One of the main specs I am interested in is the COP over a range of +7C to -7C. This does not seem to be readily shown in the datasheets but I have seen it published for one model.

The models I would be interested in reviewing are in the 6-12kw range Daiken, Thermia, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Heliotherm.

ArraMusha

Is there a comparison website for heatpumps or has anyone done a detailed comparison of the main models for sale in Ireland.
One of the main specs I am interested in is the COP over a range of +7C to -7C. This does not seem to be readily shown in the datasheets but I have seen it published for one model.

The models I would be interested in reviewing are in the 6-12kw range Daiken, Thermia, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Heliotherm.

ArraMusha

Is there a comparison website for heatpumps or has anyone done a detailed comparison of the main models for sale in Ireland.
One of the main specs I am interested in is the COP over a range of +7C to -7C. This does not seem to be readily shown in the datasheets but I have seen it published for one model.

The models I would be interested in reviewing are in the 6-12kw range Daiken, Thermia, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Heliotherm.

ecowise

ArraMusha wrote: »

Is there a comparison website for heatpumps or has anyone done a detailed comparison of the main models for sale in Ireland.
One of the main specs I am interested in is the COP over a range of +7C to -7C. This does not seem to be readily shown in the datasheets but I have seen it published for one model.

The models I would be interested in reviewing are in the 6-12kw range Daiken, Thermia, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Heliotherm.

Have you looked at the SEAI HARP database or do you want more information than they provide?

www. seai. ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_Assessors/Technical/HARP_Database/Heat_Pumps/
(remove the spaces)

ArraMusha

ecowise wrote: »

Have you looked at the SEAI HARP database or do you want more information than they provide?

www. seai. ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_Assessors/Technical/HARP_Database/Heat_Pumps/
(remove the spaces)[/quote

I'll have another look there again. Thanks

froshtyv

pieman123 wrote: »

Hi all,

Been looking through the forum and was wondering has anyone been using a Thermia Heat Pump? I'm just starting specing for a new build and that is what was recommended to me by my engineer/BER. The house will be A3 rated at least will a large open living/dining/kitchen. The heat pump will be 11kw with UFH on the ground and first floor. Any advice much appreciated as my head is wrecked trying to find if they are any good!

Pieman

Have a look here,

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95166507&postcount=507

The Danfoss heat pump is the same heat pump as the Thermia

Wegian

Curious Geroge wrote: »

Great info to know. I'm about to finalize on a Danfoss unit from heatpumpsireland but finding it impossible to get recommendations as they are suppliers and have fitters for each county. Based in galway, recommendations or general information welcomed (by PM or here). Thanks

How did this work out? Just about to place an order for the Danfoss unit for a new build with the same supplier...

froshtyv

Wegian wrote: »

How did this work out? Just about to place an order for the Danfoss unit for a new build with the same supplier...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95166507&postcount=507

Wegian

Not good. This is what is specified in my BER and came recommended as the Premium Heat Pump, more homework required.

froshtyv

Wegian wrote: »

Not good. This is what is specified in my BER and came recommended as the Premium Heat Pump, more homework required.

The only reason they are proposed by a BER assessor is because there is an assumption that they can achieve a renewable contribution for hot water in Part L. This is incorrect but most BER assessors enter the wrong information in DEAP. A BER assessor should not be specifying a heat pump for a house. They dont know anything about heating, and pick a heat pump based on where it comes in on the harp database.
The Danfoss & Thermia units still have a fixed speed compressor!! They take heat from the underfloor and cylinder to defrost the machine.

Curious Geroge

froshtyv wrote: »

The Danfoss & Thermia units still have a fixed speed compressor!! They take heat from the underfloor and cylinder to defrost the machine.

Are these good or bad points froshtyv ? How do the competitors defrost ?

Wegian

froshtyv wrote: »

The only reason they are proposed by a BER assessor is because there is an assumption that they can achieve a renewable contribution for hot water in Part L. This is incorrect .

In what way is this incorrect?
The vendor assures me that no boost is required to heat DHW above 60 degrees.

froshtyv

Wegian wrote: »

In what way is this incorrect?
The vendor assures me that no boost is required to heat DHW above 60 degrees.

That may be correct, but because the heat pump has a back-up heater you cannot use 0.7 as the EAF for hot water, you have to use the formula given in Appendix G in the DEAP manual.
You will then find that the efficiency for hot water falls below 250% which means you get 0 for Part L renewable for hot water. So depending on your build, you could fall below 10 for the renewable side of Part L. This will mean you will have to re-think the renewable side of your build.

Generally speaking a house with HRV proposed is near impossible to pass with a heat pump on its own.