Heat Pumps - post here.

Water John

Well, if your digging up the floor anyway, put in UFH. Any heat source can used with them.

If oil is costing you a fortune then you need to insulate as you already know, and unless the house is very airtight and insulation very good the heat pump will also cost you a fortune and be running more than it should be reducing it's already limited life.

Check out the oil stoves, Efel, going for 400-500 on adverts.ie, they were very expensive new and I really love our one and it's very efficient. They can have a boiler or not, have normal oil boiler then for when you're away or for the morning when you need to use the timer. Get a good condenser boiler. They are about 90 odd % efficient, chances are your old boiler is only about 70% efficient saving 20% there already.

Also beware of spending too much money on very expensive triple glazing windows for instance, if your house isn't already very well insulated then chances are more heat will be lost in walls and roof.

And remember, the heat pump needs electricity and that can add a lot of money to your bills especially in cold weather, forget about additional heating nonsense, if the heat pump isn't up to the job it's a waste of money. You may as well install heat storage heaters and run them on night rate electricity ...... sure the heat pump will be more efficient but the purchase and installation costs are a lot, and the running costs won't be too cheap especially if you house isn't up to passive standards.

If and I mean , IF, you save money on a heat pump it will be over many years by which you could be facing having to renew it, if you ask me potential for a bottomless pit. Then it has to be guaranteed to be installed correctly.

I'm also looking at new windows and I'm not keen on Upvc after seeing the condition of mine and many others after as little as 5 years, any efficiency gain is completely lost in a huge amount of these windows and doors from poor construction and bad quality control.

I have a thread started looking for information of quality windows and what type to go for .

vincenzolorenzo

top_dog wrote: »

Sorry just had a query on this as I have read this also. Technically I don't understand how the ground source heat pump is more efficient than a2w? In summer if the air temp is higher than ground temp then is the a2w more efficient at this time? Is it only based on the source heat how efficient the pump is? Or is there more to it than that?

Also is a2w very inefficient in sub zero temperatures?

Air source is more efficient at higher outside temperatures found during summer, but basically no heating load then! GSHP considerably more efficient at sub-zero temperatures but for the most part in Ireland there's not actually that many hours spent at that temperature. Maybe 5% of the year

top_dog

Is there much difference in the running costs between a 10kW heat pump and a 12kW heat pump?

I have provided plans of home to a company for both an a2w and a ground source heat pump. They quoted for a 10kW a2W and 12kW ground. So trying to decide between the two.

a2w: NIBE F2040, 12Kw (230V)
Ground: NIBE F1245, 10Kw

They also quoted for a VVM320 indoor module. I'm not sure why this is required for a2w heat pump but not required for ground?

KCross

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Air source is more efficient at higher outside temperatures found during summer, but basically no heating load then! GSHP considerably more efficient at sub-zero temperatures but for the most part in Ireland there's not actually that many hours spent at that temperature. Maybe 5% of the year

Its not just the number of freezing days in the country. Its actually "worse" than that.

The main issue with a2w is that when its cold (single digits) the system freezes and it has to use energy to defrost itself. You'd think that only happens at 0C outside temp but no, it happens at higher temps.

When the a2w HP is running it is bringing liquid in at one temp and sending it back out several degrees below that temp.

So, it might not be freezing outside but the a2w heat pump is freezing.

I don't have figures to quote but the number of days at sub-zero isn't the number of days your system is having to defrost itself and hence being inefficient. It will be more days than that.

On the GSHP side it is almost always bringing its liquid in at 10C+ regardless of outside temp and freezing is never an issue unless installed incorrectly.


That all has to be measured against the different costs between GSHP and A2W, of course.

top_dog wrote: »

Is there much difference in the running costs between a 10kW heat pump and a 12kW heat pump?

I have provided plans of home to a company for both an a2w and a ground source heat pump. They quoted for a 10kW a2W and 12kW ground. So trying to decide between the two.

a2w: NIBE F2040, 12Kw (230V)
Ground: NIBE F1245, 10Kw

They also quoted for a VVM320 indoor module. I'm not sure why this is required for a2w heat pump but not required for ground?

Some A2W system have everything outside including the compressor. Some units have a split system where the fan (and other bits) are outside but everything else is inside.

The GSHP systems are all-in-one systems and are all inside.


On the running costs side of it.... hard to tell. All things being equal the GSHP should always beat the A2W on running costs as they are more efficient. Usually more expensive to install though.

What prices did you get for those 2 systems? It would be an interesting comparison as they are the one manufacturer for the same house.

NOTE: The 10kW and 12kW is the output, not the input. The COP is the figure you actually need to compare.
F2040-12kW has a COP of about 3.6
F1245-10kW has a COP of about 4.8

When they are both running they pull roughly 2kW (less than a kettle) but give different heat outputs for that same energy.

top_dog

Thanks a mill that's great info!

KCross wrote: »

What prices did you get for those 2 systems? It would be an interesting comparison as they are the one manufacturer for the same house.

NOTE: The 10kW and 12kW is the output, not the input. The COP is the figure you actually need to compare.
F2040-12kW has a COP of about 3.6
F1245-10kW has a COP of about 4.8

When they are both running they pull roughly 2kW (less than a kettle) but give different heat outputs for that same energy.

Price
F2040-12kW 7760 €
F1245-10kW 8150 €


Do I need to get the seasonal performance factor value SPF to compare efficiency?


Ground source gives greater heat output for the same energy of 2kW? Is that true to say?

Water John

I presume Cross will be back to answer, but it looks like
12 Kw output divided by 3.6 = 3.3Kw input.
10 Kw output divided by 4.8 = 2.1 Kw input.

Just over a unit of electricity per running hour, of a difference.
You will have other capital costs with the GSHP. Groundworks and housing, mainly.

sheff the ref

This is probably one of the most common sense posts I have read

There is very little talk from people about needing to renew heatpumps. There are a lot of moving parts. Name a mechanical device that can be bought that lasts for 40 years? Yet there is a perception out there that heatpumps will last a lifetime? Granted the real initial outlay is not the overall cost of the heatpump, but the cost differential between that and the alternative heat sources.

Deleted User wrote: »

If oil is costing you a fortune then you need to insulate as you already know, and unless the house is very airtight and insulation very good the heat pump will also cost you a fortune and be running more than it should be reducing it's already limited life.

Check out the oil stoves, Efel, going for 400-500 on adverts.ie, they were very expensive new and I really love our one and it's very efficient. They can have a boiler or not, have normal oil boiler then for when you're away or for the morning when you need to use the timer. Get a good condenser boiler. They are about 90 odd % efficient, chances are your old boiler is only about 70% efficient saving 20% there already.

Also beware of spending too much money on very expensive triple glazing windows for instance, if your house isn't already very well insulated then chances are more heat will be lost in walls and roof.

And remember, the heat pump needs electricity and that can add a lot of money to your bills especially in cold weather, forget about additional heating nonsense, if the heat pump isn't up to the job it's a waste of money. You may as well install heat storage heaters and run them on night rate electricity ...... sure the heat pump will be more efficient but the purchase and installation costs are a lot, and the running costs won't be too cheap especially if you house isn't up to passive standards.

If and I mean , IF, you save money on a heat pump it will be over many years by which you could be facing having to renew it, if you ask me potential for a bottomless pit. Then it has to be guaranteed to be installed correctly.

I'm also looking at new windows and I'm not keen on Upvc after seeing the condition of mine and many others after as little as 5 years, any efficiency gain is completely lost in a huge amount of these windows and doors from poor construction and bad quality control.

I have a thread started looking for information of quality windows and what type to go for .

top_dog

I am looking at the performance specs two different heat pumps. There are a number of different parameters given for rating of the heat pumps performance. Is there anywhere that would explain what each parameter means exactly?

For example could I find where below ratings is explained?

- Rated heat Output
- Seasonal space energy efficiency
- Capacity for space heating Pdh
- COPd
- Degradation coefficient

KCross

top_dog wrote: »

I am looking at the performance specs two different heat pumps. There are a number of different parameters given for rating of the heat pumps performance. Is there anywhere that would explain what each parameter means exactly?

For example could I find where below ratings is explained?

- Rated heat Output
- Seasonal space energy efficiency
- Capacity for space heating Pdh
- COPd
- Degradation coefficient

You'll drive yourself insane trying to compare all those metrics.

I would expect that the most important is the COP(Coefficient of Performance). They are usually expressed under particular scenarios like:

Coefficient of performance (COP) of up to 4.81 at 0/35

That means when running a test to get water from 0C to 35C it can do that with an efficiency of 4.81 (e.g. 1kWh of electricity in gives 4.81kWh energy out).

Read your heart out if you want the specifics...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

The main thing is to ensure you look at what conditions the COP figure is given for because some say their COP is , say, 6 but when you look at the fine detail the test was for 7-35 and not 0-35 so that inflates the figure. You need to compare like for like COP figures.

KCross

top_dog wrote: »

Price
F2040-12kW 7760 €
F1245-10kW 8150 €


Ground source gives greater heat output for the same energy of 2kW? Is that true to say?

Yes, thats true to say.

They are very close in price. If you can put in the collector for the GSHP at a reasonably low cost I think it would be the better choice. The GSHP should last longer, require less maintenance and give better ongoing efficiency.

Have they advised you on whether a GSHP would need to be a vertical or horizontal collector based on your ground conditions? A horizontal collector can be done very cheaply. The vertical ones can be expensive and that might rule it out for you but I'd still work the numbers on both before deciding.

top_dog

I have been trying to find out the Seasonal Performance Factor rating as this is what I have been told to compare Heat Pumps. But I don't see them published in the specs by manufacturers. The seasonal performance factor (SPF), which is the ratio of annually delivered useful heat over annually used driving energy. The COP which you have mentioned can be mis-leading.

KCross wrote: »

I would expect that the most important is the COP(Coefficient of Performance). They are usually expressed under particular scenarios like:

Coefficient of performance (COP) of up to 4.81 at 0/35

The main thing is to ensure you look at what conditions the COP figure is given for because some say their COP is , say, 6 but when you look at the fine detail the test was for 7-35 and not 0-35 so that inflates the figure. You need to compare like for like COP figures.

top_dog

They actually do give the Seasonal space heating energy efficiency. Is this the same as SPF?

a2w NIBE F2040 132 %

ground NIBE F1245 147 %

Calahonda52

top_dog wrote: »

I have been trying to find out the Seasonal Performance Factor rating as this is what I have been told to compare Heat Pumps. But I don't see them published in the specs by manufacturers. The seasonal performance factor (SPF), which is the ratio of annually delivered useful heat over annually used driving energy. The COP which you have mentioned can be mis-leading.

That is not correct. and is unfair to KC.
Your definition of SPF is also wrong.

COP and SPF have two different uses and two different math requirements so it depends what the purpose of the calc is
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/key-term-explained/seasonal-performance-factor-spf
shows where SPF is used and what the industry standard definition of it is.
COP is (energy out)/energy in
where energy out is (energy extracted from the heat source by the refrigerant plus the energy in from the pump)

top_dog

Calahonda52 wrote: »

That is not correct. and is unfair to KC.

I agreed with KC and thanked them for their post. You need to compare COP across different input temperatures as was suggested by KC and which I agreed with. I was making the point using only the COP that manufacturer gives is mis-leading as this is at optimal input temperatures. This is what I concluded from the comment from KC that you shouldn't compare the COP given by the manufacturer and to 'look at the finer detail'.

From KC:
"The main thing is to ensure you look at what conditions the COP figure is given for because some say their COP is , say, 6 but when you look at the fine detail the test was for 7-35 and not 0-35 so that inflates the figure. You need to compare like for like COP figures."

Water John

7-35 tends to be the basic COP standard test.
If you want to judge how models perform in cold weather then you also need to look at 0-35 COP. This is where some makes fell down in the past and gave A2W a poor name.
If you have a hot water facility in the HP you wish to install then, up to 55-60 COP is also important.

Big Dec

From my own experience:
- GSHP generally quoted as 0-35
- ASHP generally quoted as 7-35

This may have changed in newer literature, but was relevant when I was doing my research 3/4 years back.

Condenser

Big Dec wrote: »

From my own experience:
- GSHP generally quoted as 0-35
- ASHP generally quoted as 7-35

This may have changed in newer literature, but was relevant when I was doing my research 3/4 years back.

If you want to compare these two technologies at an equivalent level then you need to use A2/W35 and B0/35 otherwise you are not comparing like with like. This was always the european standard until recently when the big a2w manufacturers began to bend the figures to make their systems look better using the argument that the average air temp in this part of the word was 7c. However using that logic ground source should be quoting B5/W35 as this is more representative of the actual year round temp in a collector, better designed systems being even higher. I have never seen a gshp with a brine temp of 0C.

mossie

I have a NIBE Fighter 1240, 8 / 9 years old, never had a problem up to now.I had a power cut on Friday, since then the system hasn't returned to normal operation. The screen shows "NIBE AB Fighter 12XX 1.18" and hasn't progressed past this. The green light is on and the icons at the top of the screen come and go. Any ideas what the problem could be?

rolion

Hi,

To all of the HP owners...I understood that pump is fine for heating the house at around 45 degrees value, plus or minus.
My question is...what do you use to heat the domestic hot water ,that will need to be at around 60-70 degrees at the top of the cylinder, with maybe 30-40 at the bottom of it !? And let's say a size of 300 litres cylinder...

Thanks.

sheff the ref

Generally an the immersion will be timed to cut in to top up the temperature. The hard work is already done heating to 45 degrees

rolion wrote: »

Hi,

To all of the HP owners...I understood that pump is fine for heating the house at around 45 degrees value, plus or minus.
My question is...what do you use to heat the domestic hot water ,that will need to be at around 60-70 degrees at the top of the cylinder, with maybe 30-40 at the bottom of it !? And let's say a size of 300 litres cylinder...

Thanks.

mike_2009

You can get CO2 ASHP's that works at highers temps (60oC) but these are rarer.

GraceKav

Looking for opinions on the below if anyone has any insight. Have done as much online digging as I can so far and will be sitting down to ask our architect this week but always good to get some different perspectives too.

Going for planning in the next few weeks so finalising house plans. Planning a 211m2 bungalow with UFH/ASHP/MVHR. Our architect is advising us to put the ASHP in the shed which will be approx 16-25m from the house. I need to check with them if this is a monoblock or split system. The shed was originally meant to be much nearer the house but was pushed back based on our request. I have an option to put an extra 70cmx200cm onto the laundry room (pulling from the sitting room which doesn't need the space) which would, based on my reading, give enough space to have a split system attached to the house rather than the shed. Just wondering what peoples' views are on this set up vs the original setup?

Some of the factors I've come up with based on my own research are:
- If have it in the shed, would need to insulate the piping into the house to prevent heat loss (have seen estimates of approx €40p/m on another thread)
- If we put it onto the house, it will be only 3-6m from the bedrooms and I believe some people have had issues with noise
- It would also be only 1-2m from the back door and I've seen comments from another reader that this can catch you with a blast of air every time you enter/exit
- A friend of ours has their unit in the utility and she raves about how quickly the clothes dry due to the piping etc - not sure if this would be the case for everyone as I didn't think the unit gave off that much ambient heat itself but definitely a plus if true
- Would prefer the unit indoors so that if we have to adjust we don't have to walk all the way outside
- Would worry that if the temp drops below freezing, we would be at more risk of pipes freezing etc if we had the unit in the shed particularly if we were away for a week or two and turned the unit off

Would welcome any feedback on the above as well as any estimated cost variances between the two options as well as maintenance issues. Any feedback on monoblock vs split would also be appreciated as I can't seem to find much opinion between the two options online except for the below Boards thread which is 5 years old and therefore may not be accurate today.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056584700

Thanks in advance for the help.

antoinolachtnai

Why does the architect want to do this? He wants to put it in the shed? Or beside the shed? If the former, is this shed going to be sealed?

The house won't even be 16-25 meters in length/width? It sounds like a very long run. The furthest heating element will be about 120 feet from the heat source whereas if it were in or alongside the building, it would only be 60 feet away. I have no experience of such a thing, but it doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

What analysis has the architect done to justify his recommendation? Has the manufacturer of the heat pump said that this is ok? It is really up to him to justify this recommendation.

Water John

One point, it is certainly, not a good idea to dry clothes in a modern, well sealed, insulated house, either for the house or the residents.
Suggest a HP condenser dryer. Very good, works at lower temp and leaves clothes soft.
Sorry to be off topic.

GraceKav

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Why does the architect want to do this? He wants to put it in the shed? Or beside the shed? If the former, is this shed going to be sealed?

The house won't even be 16-25 meters in size? It sounds like a very long run. The furthest heating element will be about 120 feet from the heat source whereas if it were in or alongside the building, it would only be 60 feet away. I have no experience of such a thing, but it doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

What analysis has the architect done to justify his recommendation? Has the manufacturer of the heat pump said that this is ok? It is really up to him to justify this recommendation.

We're sitting down to chat through with him this week as I think there may be cross wired somewhere. He calls it a garage and I call it a shed. In my mind, it will not be sealed as I don't want to be pumping a ton of money into a shed that I only want up to scratch for holding bins and gardening equipment. In his defence, the garage/shed had been right beside the house but we didn't like the approach and so pushed it further back but based on that change, I now don't think (whatever about before the move) that it makes sense anymore to have the pump in the shed when we have the space for it in the house.

As we're only going for planning permission shortly, we haven't gotten to the stage where the HP has been spec'd out or where we've spoken with suppliers yet.

Water John wrote: »

One point, it is certainly, not a good idea to dry clothes in a modern, well sealed, insulated house, either for the house or the residents.
Suggest a HP condenser dryer. Very good, works at lower temp and leaves clothes soft.
Sorry to be off topic.

Why is this? I prefer not to use a dryer and in fact we're having the separate laundry room as we'll be having dogs and we want a place that we can leave the clothes dryer out for airing. We'll be having MVHR and I thought so long as you spoke with the supplier and made sure that any rooms where there may be extra condensation e.g. bathrooms, laundry etc, were called out early in the process so that adequate ventilation could go in, it should be fine?

froshtyv

There is definitely no problems positioning a split heat pump outdoor unit away from the house, how far away will depend on the size and make of the unit.
Some will have a max distance of 25m, some will be more.
Forget about putting the indoor unit of the heat pump in an unheated space such as you garage, keep it in your house.
Simple reasons being heat and transfer losses by the time your hot water gets to your house.
A heat pump is at its worst efficiency when it is in hot water production so you don't want to make this worse by positioning your indoor unit outside the building envelope.
A good few manufactures have an integrated indoor unit which means your hot water cylinder and circulating pump are located all inside one unit roughly 1750mm high, 600mm in width and 730mm deep, so they will fit in most utilities.
If you have seen the room to improve episode with Dessie Dolan in Moate, they had an integrated unit fitted in their utility and that was the fussiest utility that Ireland has ever seen (",) (see attached image)


Advantages of split over a monobloc are;
Flexibility of being able to position the outdoor unit away from the house without incurring heat and transfer losses like found in a monobloc.
I have seen monoblocs loose up to 7c by the time the water is transferred inside to the house when they are mounted away from the house.
Refrigerant gas in the split versus water in a monobloc.

The split system will have no water located outside so less prone to freezing compared to a monobloc.

In relation to drying clothes, the main thing you need to ensure is that the room that you are planning to use is ventilated, but i am sure this will be the case if you are planning to instal MHRV.

GraceKav wrote: »

Looking for opinions on the below if anyone has any insight. Have done as much online digging as I can so far and will be sitting down to ask our architect this week but always good to get some different perspectives too.

Going for planning in the next few weeks so finalising house plans. Planning a 211m2 bungalow with UFH/ASHP/MVHR. Our architect is advising us to put the ASHP in the shed which will be approx 16-25m from the house. I need to check with them if this is a monoblock or split system. The shed was originally meant to be much nearer the house but was pushed back based on our request. I have an option to put an extra 70cmx200cm onto the laundry room (pulling from the sitting room which doesn't need the space) which would, based on my reading, give enough space to have a split system attached to the house rather than the shed. Just wondering what peoples' views are on this set up vs the original setup?

Some of the factors I've come up with based on my own research are:
- If have it in the shed, would need to insulate the piping into the house to prevent heat loss (have seen estimates of approx €40p/m on another thread)
- If we put it onto the house, it will be only 3-6m from the bedrooms and I believe some people have had issues with noise
- It would also be only 1-2m from the back door and I've seen comments from another reader that this can catch you with a blast of air every time you enter/exit
- A friend of ours has their unit in the utility and she raves about how quickly the clothes dry due to the piping etc - not sure if this would be the case for everyone as I didn't think the unit gave off that much ambient heat itself but definitely a plus if true
- Would prefer the unit indoors so that if we have to adjust we don't have to walk all the way outside
- Would worry that if the temp drops below freezing, we would be at more risk of pipes freezing etc if we had the unit in the shed particularly if we were away for a week or two and turned the unit off

Would welcome any feedback on the above as well as any estimated cost variances between the two options as well as maintenance issues. Any feedback on monoblock vs split would also be appreciated as I can't seem to find much opinion between the two options online except for the below Boards thread which is 5 years old and therefore may not be accurate today.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056584700

Thanks in advance for the help.

Condenser

froshtyv wrote: »

There is definitely no problems positioning a split heat pump outdoor unit away from the house, how far away will depend on the size and make of the unit.
Some will have a max distance of 25m, some will be more.
Forget about putting the indoor unit of the heat pump in an unheated space such as you garage, keep it in your house.
Simple reasons being heat and transfer losses by the time your hot water gets to your house.
A heat pump is at its worst efficiency when it is in hot water production so you don't want to make this worse by positioning your indoor unit outside the building envelope.
A good few manufactures have an integrated indoor unit which means your hot water cylinder and circulating pump are located all inside one unit roughly 1750mm high, 600mm in width and 730mm deep, so they will fit in most utilities.
If you have seen the room to improve episode with Dessie Dolan in Moate, they had an integrated unit fitted in their utility and that was the fussiest utility that Ireland has ever seen (",) (see attached image)


Advantages of split over a monobloc are;
Flexibility of being able to position the outdoor unit away from the house without incurring heat and transfer losses like found in a monobloc.
I have seen monoblocs loose up to 7c by the time the water is transferred inside to the house when they are mounted away from the house.
Refrigerant gas in the split versus water in a monobloc.

The split system will have no water located outside so less prone to freezing compared to a monobloc.

In relation to drying clothes, the main thing you need to ensure is that the room that you are planning to use is ventilated, but i am sure this will be the case if you are planning to instal MHRV.

The bolded above is completely incorrect. There are massive heat losses associated with most split units situated away from a house. Most split units have the compressor in the outdoor unit so this is where your heat is generated. The discharge gas that leaves the compressor is usually 55C+ on heating and can be over 80C on hot water. Given that these pipes are generally only insulated in armaflex and thrown in a sewer pipe until they reach the house then the heat losses are massive. The temperature also means the insulation degrades over time and you end up with no insulation. To top it off the sewer pipe is rarely sealed and usually fills with water so half the time 50% of your energy is heating the ground. Unless its a split heat pump with compressor inside and only the evaporator and fan outside this is most definitely the case.


Also on the original question, under no circumstances should you put an air source heat pump in your shed. It will short cycle the air available continuously blowing out cold air and sucking it back in meaning your performance drops off a cliff. I once visited a shed where the internal temperature was -7 when it was 10C outside where this exact set up was done.


Don't rely on your architect to give you the full info either as he's only passing on info he received from salesmen that have visited him. You really shouldn't rule out a GSHP as its superior in every way from running costs, to lifetime, to noise. That fact has been lost to the large advertising budgets of the big ASHP players.

GraceKav

Thanks for the replies guys. You've confirmed what I was thinking. Going to defo free up space to move the system inside the house.

Condenser wrote: »

Don't rely on your architect to give you the full info either as he's only passing on info he received from salesmen that have visited him. You really shouldn't rule out a GSHP as its superior in every way from running costs, to lifetime, to noise. That fact has been lost to the large advertising budgets of the big ASHP players.

Also leaning back towards an energy consultant for the build. Seems sensible given the amount of conflicting advice out there and how hard this stuff is for a layperson to understand.

Re the GSHP, I've gone away from this for several reasons:
- don't think we can afford the capital outlay which makes the decision quite easy. Inital capital outlay on the ASHP is much less from everything I've heard.
-want to plant trees throughout the site and know there can be issues with roots with the GSHP with advice being, don't plant anything with large roots anywhere near them.
- I'm sure people will argue this last one with me but if something goes wrong, the ASHP feels much more accessible for repairs/maintenance/replacing parts etc. The thought of getting a burst pipe or something with the GSHP scares me quite a bit even though logically I know the likelihood is low.

Condenser

GraceKav wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys. You've confirmed what I was thinking. Going to defo free up space to move the system inside the house.



Also leaning back towards an energy consultant for the build. Seems sensible given the amount of conflicting advice out there and how hard this stuff is for a layperson to understand.

Re the GSHP, I've gone away from this for several reasons:
- don't think we can afford the capital outlay which makes the decision quite easy. Inital capital outlay on the ASHP is much less from everything I've heard.
-want to plant trees throughout the site and know there can be issues with roots with the GSHP with advice being, don't plant anything with large roots anywhere near them.
- I'm sure people will argue this last one with me but if something goes wrong, the ASHP feels much more accessible for repairs/maintenance/replacing parts etc. The thought of getting a burst pipe or something with the GSHP scares me quite a bit even though logically I know the likelihood is low.

I think if you really sit down and weed out the answers you get from suppliers its not that difficult to sort the genuine info from the bs. Too many people get clouded by budget and end up wanting to believe the item that fits their budget is going to be fine and they miss the detail in what they're told. Budget of course has a role but you should always approach it as if it doesnt matter. Listen to all opinions even if you think its outside what you can afford. You'll quickly figure out the realities once you apply common sense and also once you hear common sense from a supplier.

A decent supplier should give you information not a sales pitch. Anyone that is willing to match every requirement you think you want is not worth listening too. This is especially true of heat pumps where the supplier should guide you on best practice. If they bend to your every whim they only want a sale and don't care about the result. You can easily test this.

Regarding the Gshp you'll find its not very much more than an ashp (really good ashp's are actually more expensive.), will run for about half the cost, will last at least twice as long, have far less parts failures, be very consistent regardless of the weather conditions.

Roots are only an issue with deep rooting trees. A borehole can be used if space is limited and I've never seen a burst pipe other than one where someone stuck a digger bucket through it and theyre easy to find . Far more likely to see damage to an ashp due to storms, kids putting sticks in the fan blades, reversing a car into it, coil failure due to metal fatigue from defrosting, corrosion and other issues.