Heat Pumps - post here.

MENACE2010

clonagh wrote: »

Hi all,
Sorry to digress and maybe this has been asked before but would it be of benefit to put an A2W unit in a shed/garage that has good air circulation? It would be protected from snow and the worst of any frost.

Hi ,
An airsource heat pump can withstand frost and has defrost mechanisms to deal with freezing . No real advantage sticking it in a shed. I would advice to have outdoor unit close the house otherwise you will get heat loss. one point to note is that the colder it gets the compressor will have to work harder what equals in more noise. Some pumps like mine have a silent run option but I have never used it

if you are in the Clare area dm me and you can come around to see the pump in action

clonagh

Thanks for the reply and the offer menace, unfortunately I'm in westmeath and a bit too far away.

pg123

Hello,

We had a geothermal system installed (underground) in 2012 which after a few minor teething problems was working perfect until Nov. 2017. Our sytem read 'low pressure' and stopped working. We had the original installer out to 'service it' for a fee of €250 yet it hasnt working properly since (I am unsure how one can service a heat pump that isnt working correctly however bigger fools us to pay him!)
We since got a second company out to look at it. They installed gas, worked for a while and low pressure again. They retro fitted a valve incase it was that, again it works fine when weather is good however once it goes below - degrees the pump freezes.
The second company (who seem to know what they are on about compared to the first company) seem to think that the issue lies with the pipes outside as its seems either the ground is too wet or not enough pipe was orignially fitted for the size of the house.
Does this make sense? or is there any other avenues we should look at before digging up the lawn, and if so do we have any come back with the original company that fitted a not for purpose system.

Sorry about the lack of technical info!
Our system is a Stiebel Eltron WPF-10

Water John

The pipe area used outside should be the same size as the house. That's from memory.
Not sure why, what's underground, which is only loops of pipe, should not work now as well as they did, previously. The circulating pump?

pg123

Thanks for your reply.
We were told it's got to do with the energy outside and that there is not enough loops to keep the energy moving and that its too static. (possibly that the ground is too boggy also where the loops were put down??)
He told me 'its like putting a glass of frozen water in the freezer' it will remain frozen but over time lose it's energy'.
The pump is working fine again in this weather but during the cold spell it cut out and would not work.

KCross

pg123 wrote: »

We had a geothermal system installed (underground) in 2012 which after a few minor teething problems was working perfect until Nov. 2017. Our sytem read 'low pressure' and stopped working.

...again it works fine when weather is good however once it goes below - degrees the pump freezes.

The second company (who seem to know what they are on about compared to the first company) seem to think that the issue lies with the pipes outside as its seems either the ground is too wet or not enough pipe was orignially fitted for the size of the house.
Does this make sense? or is there any other avenues we should look at before digging up the lawn, and if so do we have any come back with the original company that fitted a not for purpose system.

Sorry about the lack of technical info!
Our system is a Stiebel Eltron WPF-10

pg123 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.
We were told it's got to do with the energy outside and that there is not enough loops to keep the energy moving and that its too static. (possibly that the ground is too boggy also where the loops were put down??)

The pump is working fine again in this weather but during the cold spell it cut out and would not work.

It is strange that it worked fine for 5yrs but based on what you've described above it might be that the first 5yrs were milder winters and so it wasn't working as hard as the last few months where we got very very cold weather and it tipped it over the edge. It also means the HP is probably not running very efficiently. Are you getting high electricity bills?

The way the HP works is that it is constantly "sucking" heat out of the ground and if you dont have enough loops it will physically freeze the ground around the pipes. That is what your service company are telling you and your description matches that as well... i.e it works during the warmer weather but freezes in the cold weather as its working harder and just freezing the ground.... not enough pipes under the ground.

Your original installer is at fault here. Its a common issue with cowboy installers.... they scrimp on the underground loops because its under the ground and you cant see it.... like builders scrimping on insulation.... once the walls are plastered you are none the wiser until you realise you've a cold house!

That is a disaster for you, if that is the issue. You will have to dig the lawn and put down new pipes, assuming you have the space? Or alternatively go vertical rather than horizontal with the collector.

KCross

Another thing to look at is the temperature of the brine in and brine out which is basically the temperature of the liquid in the pipes and see is that very low when it is running.

Im not familiar with your model but I presume there is a menu structure where you can see these values while the pump is running? Look at those and see what temp they are at after the HP is running for 15mins+

Easter Sunday

Hi,
I’m considering installing an air to water heat pump in a new build to comply with part L and also because it seems like a sensible way to go. House will be approx. 2000sq ft.

A lot of discussion here seems to be slightly older and I know the technology has improved. Any opinions on the 2018 pumps? How do they work in our damp climate? I have read of issues with our high humidity levels in Ireland-that the unit spends a lot of time in defrost mode.
Do they work ok with underfloor downstairs and the proper rads upstairs?
I’d love if I could hear from people who actually have them in their house.
Thank you.

Zaph

Moved from Forum Requests

Water John

Use alu rads upstairs, to operate on the lower temp. Maybe ordinary rads would be fine, as you won't need a lot a lot of heat, but I wouldn't chance it.

Easter Sunday

Water John wrote: »

Use alu rads upstairs, to operate on the lower temp. Maybe ordinary rads would be fine, as you won't need a lot a lot of heat, but I wouldn't chance it.

Thank you so much for your reply. Do you have any experience of these pumps? Are they really as good as they are supposed to be?

Water John

Three extended family have A2W in their new, houses. All very happy with them, no complaints. One in Panasonic, the other 2 might be also, as they had the same builder.

WLad

Buying a new build myself which has one fitted with all alu rads and no underfloor heating. Hoping it is enough to keep the house warm! Good to hear people with positive stories.

Water John

Should be fine with alu rads.

WLad

Water John wrote: »

Should be fine with alu rads.

Great thanks, do you know if the dimplex 6kw pump should be enough? House is 1500 square ft and also has a multi fuel stove in the sitting room.

Water John

Your engineer will have to do that calculation. Don't include the stove, in your calculation. It may not be used all the time. 6Kw sounds a bit small.
Sizing correctly is important.

MENACE2010

Easter Sunday wrote: »

Hi,
I’m considering installing an air to water heat pump in a new build to comply with part L and also because it seems like a sensible way to go. House will be approx. 2000sq ft.

A lot of discussion here seems to be slightly older and I know the technology has improved. Any opinions on the 2018 pumps? How do they work in our damp climate? I have read of issues with our high humidity levels in Ireland-that the unit spends a lot of time in defrost mode.
Do they work ok with underfloor downstairs and the proper rads upstairs?
I’d love if I could hear from people who actually have them in their house.
Thank you.

Hi ,
dampness is not a challenge, our pump is from 2014 working perfectly ever since the install date. What you will notice is that when it gets Reaaally cold the pump will have to work harder .. aside from that we have hot water and heating from it . One tip , if you can oversize the storage tank slightly ( I went for a design for 6 people, while there are 4 in the house) reason being is that you don't run out of hot water = less pump action that is with the correct tank , I have a tank ( cannot mention the brand) that looses less than a degree Celsius per day so for example in the summer the pump only runs every other day to top up hot water.

Easter Sunday

MENACE2010 wrote: »

Hi ,
dampness is not a challenge, our pump is from 2014 working perfectly ever since the install date. What you will notice is that when it gets Reaaally cold the pump will have to work harder .. aside from that we have hot water and heating from it . One tip , if you can oversize the storage tank slightly ( I went for a design for 6 people, while there are 4 in the house) reason being is that you don't run out of hot water = less pump action that is with the correct tank , I have a tank ( cannot mention the brand) that looses less than a degree Celsius per day so for example in the summer the pump only runs every other day to top up hot water.

Thank you so much for that. What are your bills like? Do you have PV panels with it or are you using regular electricity?

MENACE2010

Easter Sunday wrote: »

Thank you so much for that. What are your bills like? Do you have PV panels with it or are you using regular electricity?

Hi , at the moment with spread billing it's 140 euro a month (all inclusive, lights,cooking washing,dishwasher,laptops and gaming console.the entire house )i..but it varies per house and what you set the pump at in the summer it drops significantly before spread billing I had a bill for 90 euro in the summer for two months..

Easter Sunday

MENACE2010 wrote: »

Hi , at the moment with spread billing it's 140 euro a month (all inclusive, lights,cooking washing,dishwasher,laptops and gaming console.the entire house )i..but it varies per house and what you set the pump at in the summer it drops significantly before spread billing I had a bill for 90 euro in the summer for two months..

Thank you so much for all your info. I hope you don’t mind answering the following:
What size is your house?
Do you have a night saver metre installed?
Do you leave it running on a constant low heat all the time or it is on a timer?
Do you have underfloor or rads? If rads, are they alu rads?
I assume you have an A rated house?

MENACE2010

Easter Sunday wrote: »

Thank you so much for all your info. I hope you don’t mind answering the following:
What size is your house?
Do you have a night saver metre installed?
Do you leave it running on a constant low heat all the time or it is on a timer?
Do you have underfloor or rads? If rads, are they alu rads?
I assume you have an A rated house?

Hi, house is A2 rated, we have underfloor and the pump is on 24x7 but it only kicks in when there is heat needed. I have the option to adjust the hearing curve on the pump and the temperature is low on the heating at the moment. The house is a steady 20 degrees c. Size of the house is irrelevant it's the performance of the insulation and the net heat loss that determine the heatpump size. Get the calculations done by someone who has done this before..

iRos

Hi All,
I have some questions some of you may have answers for.

I own a house built in 1998 and this year I am considering to instal a heat pump NIBE alone with full Ground Floor underfloor heating. Even though I read split opinions here I still refuse to believe that this system won't make a difference if installed correctly. I am well aware that before installing it I have to improve my BER which is a C1 atm. I plan to externally insulate my walls, attic insulation and new triple glazed windows all-round and bring my BER to an A3 at least.

Should there be an engineer that I better hire to coordinate all this jobs and calculations and where do I find one?

Thank you.

Water John

Are you digging up the floor to put in the UFH?

iRos

Water John wrote: »

Are you digging up the floor to put in the UFH?

The thing is my house is also being pyrite remediated soon and I want to take this opportunity to upgrade my heating system.

So, yes the floor slab is going to be rigged out.

Water John

Go down and put in 150mm insulation. Make sure each room has no bridging from the floating floor to cold surfaces.

iRos

Water John wrote: »

Go down and put in 150mm insulation. Make sure each room has no bridging from the floating floor to cold surfaces.

Your advice is much appreciated. I will defiantly take that into account.

This is what I mean, see I do not know much in terms of sustainable energy and the last thing I want is spend a fortune, build and miss some important and vital points.

Water John

This is your one opportunity to insulate your floor. The rest of us are left with what we have. It's relatively easy to upgrade windows, doors, walls and roof.
Insulation and airtightness are what will determine your heat demand.

iRos

Water John wrote: »

This is your one opportunity to insulate your floor. The rest of us are left with what we have. It's relatively easy to upgrade windows, doors, walls and roof.
Insulation and airtightness are what will determine your heat demand.

Thanks Water John.

About airtightness. Are you suggesting that I should consider airtightness as far as going for an heat recovery ventilation? How else, can one improve air-tightness profile?

Water John

HRV is used where the air tightness has been achieved. You need a specialist engineer to draw up a plan of your house improvements and the likely air tightness that may be achieved.

iRos

Water John wrote: »

HRV is used where the air tightness has been achieved. You need a specialist engineer to draw up a plan of your house improvements and the likely air tightness that may be achieved.

How is called such an engineer and where do I find one, coz I tried to look for some contacts online with no results at all.

Thank you.