Heat Pumps - post here.

Water John

https://www.seai.ie/resources/find-a-registered-professional/SEAI-Registered-Technical-Advisors.pdf

This site will have a list in 2 weeks.

iRos

Water John wrote: »

This site will have a list in 2 weeks.

Thats actually great.

Thanks Water John.

iRos

Hi All,

There's also this new super Grant called Deep Retrofit Pilot Programme but unfortunately you can't apply as an individual landlord.

In order to avail of it you have to look for getting involved into a project of a minimum five houses. I wrote an email to my local authorities in relation to this stating that I wish to get involved in such a project and advise me on this but so far without any reply.

Any one involved in such a project?

Charlie 08

Is there a minimum BER/airtightness result required/recommended to get a heat pump?

Shaunoc

Charlie 08 wrote: »

Is there a minimum BER/airtightness result required/recommended to get a heat pump?

from the MHRV system i am using, their site says 2 – 3 m³/hr/m² or better.
my result from test was 1.8 ish a coupe of years ago. (large house and I did some myself)
Many houses can and should be built with better results than that without too much trouble these days if you have a plan.

to answer the heat pump question, something similar would apply. as the less heat escaping the more efficient your HP will be

Charlie 08

Shaunoc wrote: »

from the MHRV system i am using, their site says 2 – 3 m³/hr/m² or better.
my result from test was 1.8 ish a coupe of years ago. (large house and I did some myself)
Many houses can and should be built with better results than that without too much trouble these days if you have a plan.

to answer the heat pump question, something similar would apply. as the less heat escaping the more efficient your HP will be

thanks Shaunoc. think with super homes they aim for a result of 5.
Will see and see what seai heat pump scheme has to say when released next Monday.

Shefwedfan

I think I asked this many moons ago but looking again after talking to someone at weekend.

I have a bungalow, just over 3,000 sqft. It is a bit all over the place in terms of layout so it is very hard to heat. Currently the house has oil boiler(new one) and a solid fuel stove.

I renovated over half of it with new radiators and new insulated piping. Under floor insulation. Insulated slabs on interior walls and ceiling. Air tightness on all windows etc

I also pumped the walls in entire house with cavity insulation.

I was looking at Heat pump as maybe an option. Probably air to water. I just have standard radiator, not alu or anything.

What I would plan is have the air to water just to keep the water at a temp and then if required kick in the oil boiler to bring up the temp.

Would this work? Or am I talking madness?

KCross

It sounds like madness to me.

Considering you have a new oil boiler its probably reasonably efficient so I'd leave that alone.

You've done the right thing by doing all that work and you should continue with that and finish the rest of it before you look at any heat pumps.


What is it currently costing you to heat it since you did all that work?

Have you got good windows?

FYI: Installing a heat pump is going to be thousands (€7-10k probably)... so how long is it going to take to make that back?

I wouldn't do it either unless the house was fully up to passive standards, remember the heat pump needs electricity to run.

You already got oil and if the house is very well insulated then it should cost little to run anyway and probably wouldn't save much if any over running a heat pump but the heat pump will cost thousands.

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

It sounds like madness to me.

Considering you have a new oil boiler its probably reasonably efficient so I'd leave that alone.

You've done the right thing by doing all that work and you should continue with that and finish the rest of it before you look at any heat pumps.


What is it currently costing you to heat it since you did all that work?

Have you got good windows?

FYI: Installing a heat pump is going to be thousands (€7-10k probably)... so how long is it going to take to make that back?

Heating the house is costing around 3 fills per year. I also use a tonne of coal per year for the stove.

Windows are double glazed, decent I would say. I bought house and they where installed. From the dates on windows I would say installed in 2009

No idea how long to pay back, it was mentioned at weekend the heat pump would massive reduce the oil requirement, maybe from 3 fills to 1 fill per winter. So I would guess based on current pricing it would take 1k per year to reduce.

I dont know if those numbers would be correct?

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't do it either unless the house was fully up to passive standards, remember the heat pump needs electricity to run.

You already got oil and if the house is very well insulated then it should cost little to run anyway and probably wouldn't save much if any over running a heat pump but the heat pump will cost thousands.

Part of larger plan

Solar PV on roof. Wood pellet stove to heat the problem room
Heat pump with oil to back up....

Then maybe Solar thermal if Solar PV not up to job on hot water :p

All electric car fleet....

Rain water harvesting

Wind turbine to generate electricity during the night :eek:

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Heating the house is costing around 3 fills per year. I also use a tonne of coal per year for the stove.

Windows are double glazed, decent I would say. I bought house and they where installed. From the dates on windows I would say installed in 2009

No idea how long to pay back, it was mentioned at weekend the heat pump would massive reduce the oil requirement, maybe from 3 fills to 1 fill per winter. So I would guess based on current pricing it would take 1k per year to reduce.

I dont know if those numbers would be correct?

Something is wrong there though. 3 fills is a lot, even in a 3000sq ft house, considering you have done slabbing, beads and air tightness etc.

You are clearly leaking heat big time from somewhere (attic, windows, doors...). I'd go sort that first.

You need a proper assessment done with a thermal imaging camera, imo.

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No idea how long to pay back, it was mentioned at weekend the heat pump would massive reduce the oil requirement, maybe from 3 fills to 1 fill per winter. So I would guess based on current pricing it would take 1k per year to reduce.

I dont know if those numbers would be correct?

Were you sitting on a high stool at the time?!!!

I'm sure the HP would help the oil bill but its going to be counteracted by the increase in your electricity bill and obviously the capital cost to put it in.

You need to stop the heat loss first.

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

Were you sitting on a high stool at the time?!!!

I'm sure the HP would help the oil bill but its going to be counteracted by the increase in your electricity bill and obviously the capital cost to put it in.

You need to stop the heat loss first.

I was on a high stool but I was driving, the information provider was drinking :p:p:p

I only done 50% of the house, the other 50% is still as was, but it does have decent insulation....it could be better but one job at a time...

Maybe the heat pump is another days work Just said I would ask

WLad

Not to hijack but does anybody have experience of installing a nest smart thermostat with an air to water pump? Is it worthwhile? Easy to do?

Windows from 2009 are suspect also, there are so many disgracefully manufactured windows and doors in Ireland and in 5 years they have so many gaps in them it's like having a window slightly open, also getting them installed properly is a great challenge here, too many cowboys.

The house I'm in now has some shocking quality windows and doors some made from a company in "Munster" and some in wexford all are dirt but the installation is truly shocking. How these companies get away with it I'll never know.

Our greatest heat loss is the conservatory, it's a joke. Nice in warmer weather but for 10 months of the year it sucks so much heat out of the house, I'd be far better to turn it into a proper useful room.

digitaldr

I got windows (passive aluminium) and a large aluclad patio slider all triple glazed from the same company years ago. Actually very pleased with the quality of the windows but customer service and installation was abysmal. They scratched both panes of the patio doors which they replaced for free. Tiles along bottom of patio door were cut crooked so wedged shaped gap 4-5cm at it's widest which they filled with grey silicon and then brushed dirt into.



Note the door stopper in the picture too!

After much nagging they agreed to cover the he gap with a plastic trim - only problem being that it was the wrong colour - they eventually turned up with the correct one. Also window for the hall was clear not frosted as ordered. Replacement was the wrong size - in fairness they did get it right on the third attempt! No keys supplied for the windows either.

There should be more protection for customers in Ireland , I can buy something in argos and return it in a year , get my windows repaired ? takes 50 phone calls and they want to charge you.

Warranty's are crap and do not include installation most of the time, in 5 years when everything falls apart you can't do anything about it and you spent thousands which is worthless now because all the warm air is escaping.

clonagh

Has anyone used "Surge Systems" to supply and fit their air to water heating system? Perhaps you could PM me your experiences. Thanks.

SOR2010

Hi All

Looking for some advise,
Our heat pump has (Nibe Fighter 1140) has failed after 9 years and the heat transducer can taken in water seizing the compressor and frying the system,
Have been advised we need to replace the unit..
As it wasn't performing well anyway have been considering alternatives, collector installed in bog, marshy ground and hasn't been getting much heat, (told originally its perfect ground for GeoTermal now it's not recommended for it)
Our house is 4000sq ft and UFH on 2 floors, but we mainly live downstairs.
My thoughts are installing either a new HP or an A2W system or just going with a very effiecent Oil Burner,
Big think is the cost of the new unit vs Elec costs vs Oil
The house has pumped installation & Warm board on all external walls,

Any advise greatly appreciated

Water John

Only by the size of you heating bill relative to the BER of your house, along with was it running a lot, will tell you if it was originally working efficiently. Pity not to keep using the Ground to Water if it was working ok prior to the failure and that part of the installation is insitu.

KCross

SOR2010 wrote: »

Hi All

Looking for some advise,
Our heat pump has (Nibe Fighter 1140) has failed after 9 years and the heat transducer can taken in water seizing the compressor and frying the system,
Have been advised we need to replace the unit..

When you say replace the unit do you mean just the compressor or the entire F1140? i.e. whats the repair cost of the F1140?

If its just the compressor, I'd get that done.

SOR2010 wrote: »

As it wasn't performing well anyway have been considering alternatives, collector installed in bog, marshy ground and hasn't been getting much heat, (told originally its perfect ground for GeoTermal now it's not recommended for it)

That is a bigger issue! I guess there is alot of stagnant water and thats a big no no for Geo. Thats probably not fixable without spending big money digging it up and draining it etc and even then it would be a gamble.


An alternative would be to switch to a vertical collector IF you can resurrect the F1140 for reasonable money. If the F1140 requires all sorts of additional expensive repairs above and beyond a compressor then thats a different story.

SOR2010 wrote: »

Our house is 4000sq ft and UFH on 2 floors, but we mainly live downstairs.
My thoughts are installing either a new HP or an A2W system or just going with a very effiecent Oil Burner,
Big think is the cost of the new unit vs Elec costs vs Oil
The house has pumped installation & Warm board on all external walls,

Any advise greatly appreciated

Big house. Geo is the right tool for the job there. I'd be worried about A2W being able to heat that size house in the depths of winter at a reasonable cost.


If I were you I'd do the following....

1) Get quotes for repairing the F1140 and putting in a vertical collector.
2) Get a quote for swapping the F1140 for an A2W system

Then you will have a better idea of whats what. If there, for instance, was only a grand or two in the difference I would go with option 1 as it would be the better long term solution.

The F1140 isnt a bad unit. The issue seems to be a cowboy installer who put in a horizontal collector when they shoudlnt have and thus the HP has been working overtime and resulted in premature failure. What were your electricity bills like in the last 12 months?

SOR2010

I’ve been told the F1140 is beyond economical repair and to install an equivalent A2W system would require 14-16Kw unit,
From my records the Brime In in winter was very low, about 1 deg, and only 7 deg in June, but that could of been due to lack of Glycol in the collector,
Bills over the last couple of years have been high about €3-3500 in total considering the houses about €80-100 per month this leaves the heating about €2-2.5k per year.
So I’m sure if it’s down to Glycol or the collector not working in Bog ground, as to the issues we had.

Because of the house being UFH and tiled throughout I need to incorporate something back into the existing system to heat the house.

KCross

SOR2010 wrote: »

I’ve been told the F1140 is beyond economical repair and to install an equivalent A2W system would require 14-16Kw unit,
From my records the Brime In in winter was very low, about 1 deg, and only 7 deg in June, but that could of been due to lack of Glycol in the collector,
Bills over the last couple of years have been high about €3-3500 in total considering the houses about €80-100 per month this leaves the heating about €2-2.5k per year.
So I’m sure if it’s down to Glycol or the collector not working in Bog ground, as to the issues we had.

Because of the house being UFH and tiled throughout I need to incorporate something back into the existing system to heat the house.

Thats a very very high electricity bill. My house is similar size and I've the same system (F1140+horiz collector) and its costing about €700/yr. Just as an FYI rather than salt to the wounds!

A 14-16kW A2W system aint going to be cheap to install or run.


Do you trust the engineer that told you the F1140 is beyond repair? 2nd opinion maybe? I have two contacts that I can share via PM. What part of the country are you in?


Ultimately you need options so I'd stick to what I said and get quotes. I'd add a 3rd option..
1) Get quotes for repairing the F1140 and putting in a vertical collector.
2) Get a quote for swapping the F1140 for an A2W system
3) Get quote for a new Geo HP and putting in a vertical collector if the 2nd opinion is that the F1140 is beyond repair.


Is your house reasonably airtight? Any chance the system is running alot due to heat leakage?

SOR2010

Honestly don’t know who to trust,
Had one engineer out told me the compressor was fried and it would cost €3k to fix (after putting 5 drums of Glycol in to the collector)
Contacted the supplier they said get a second opinion and 2 nd eng said, Heat transducer was damaged in turn frying the compressor and the main guts of the unit!

In the summer the collector seems fine and have looked back at posts on here from Feb 14 Brime in 1 & Out 0, and June 14 Brime In 8 Out 5, so not so sure,
We have 900m of pipe in the collector but don’t know how deep we’d need to go with a vertical collector.

KCross

SOR2010 wrote: »

Honestly don’t know who to trust,
Had one engineer out told me the compressor was fried and it would cost €3k to fix (after putting 5 drums of Glycol in to the collector)
Contacted the supplier they said get a second opinion and 2 nd eng said, Heat transducer was damaged in turn frying the compressor and the main guts of the unit!

€2k+ is correct for a compressor.
Whether other things need fixing, I dont know. Usually an overworked HP will just burn out the compressor and thats all. Maybe more has gone on in yours.

I'll PM you some names and you can decide yourself.

You're going to have to spend regardless.

SOR2010 wrote: »

In the summer the collector seems fine and have looked back at posts on here from Feb 14 Brime in 1 & Out 0, and June 14 Brime In 8 Out 5, so not so sure,
We have 900m of pipe in the collector but don’t know how deep we’d need to go with a vertical collector.

Mine is 900m of collector as well.

A vertical collector is basically a well (like your water well). It goes down a long way but it wont be affected by boggy soil like a horizontal collector and I believe it is more efficient but it is more expensive to drill it.

The Brine in/out figures will typically have about a 4C temp difference when its running. If Brine out is going below freezing then it will freeze the water outside the pipe and then you dont get the heat you need into the house and hence the heat pump will work harder to compensate.

BarneyMc

Got my final bill with my old electricity supplier and my total electricity bill for the last 12 months came to €1,000. This is for everything electrical - heating, hot water, kettles, dishwasher, etc.

The Jan-Feb period was by far the most expensive. Anyway just thought I'd share this for anyone who is building and considering options. By the way my house is insulated to the hilt, air tight and has minimal thermal bridging - all critical!

Wearb

Are these settings ok. Power shower getting cold after two showers in the morning.




Also, what does "discharge water" mean?

BryanF

Wearb wrote: »

Are these settings ok. Power shower getting cold after two showers in the morning.
..

Also, what does "discharge water" mean?

What type of boiler is it?
Is there an expansion tank?

Wearb

BryanF wrote: »

What type of boiler is it?

Samsung A/W heat pump

Is there an expansion tank?

Yes