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Heat Pumps - post here.

16869707173

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭THE ALM


    Morning all.

    Heat pump currently being fitted, just waiting on electrician to complete.

    In the meantime does anyone know if the Edi meets this requirement? would rather not have to fit a separate immermat timer.

    Thanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,283 ✭✭✭championc


    Maybe needs a connection to an Eddi Relay board ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭THE ALM


    maybe, I'll get a simple timer should we ever have an inspection.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Is this in relation to a ber?

    An eddi has a timer/schedule function. If that doesn't qualify as a timer I dunno what does.

    (I think it's so the immersion isn't left on 24/7



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭Dozz


    Hi All

    Any good recommendations/resources where I could workout how to go about calculating the heatloss of my house?

    Cheers



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭Dozz


    Another good video showing how heatpumps are well capable of heating older houses.

    https://youtu.be/3dzk0QLCTm8?si=jIWOoBf3436t9BKq



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭THE ALM


    Not in relation to BER but to the SEAI Domestic Technical Standards and Specifications (DTSS) which, I assume, are what will be followed should an inspection take place.

    Like you, I am of the opinion the an Eddi qualifies as a timer and can be clearly shown to be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭THE ALM


    If you have a plan and know your u-values within reason then sign up to Heatpunk and input your details or download the SEAI heat loss calc spreadsheet.

    I used both and they were within a few hundred watts of each other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,283 ✭✭✭championc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 burgerland


    Also hoping to go DIY route with the Vaillant aroTherm plus 5kw unit, was looking at importing from Germany as thought the UK would be too expensive with custom charges? Great to hear of a successful Vaillant DIY install, will keep an eye out for your post in the plumbing section.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,222 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    Any special reason why you're both going with Vaillant?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,283 ✭✭✭championc


    For me, apart from having had a trouble free Vaillant Combi for the past 13 or so years, seeing the likes of Heat Geek and Urban Plumber made them a serious consideration.

    Seeing them then up near the top end of https://heatpumpmoniyltor.org just reaffirmed things. Being R290 based too was a plus, as was being able to retrieve data locally from the eBus rather than being reliant on a cloud.

    Vaillant UK have a support line and email. The have answered all questions I posed to them. There is also a very strong and active UK Facebook group, which has a wealth of information and knowledge.

    Do I care that there is no support in Ireland, not really, as it will come eventually, but having put it in myself, I know it inside out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 burgerland


    +1 on what Championc posted. I wouldn’t be arguing they are superior to any other manufacturer, but I just think the amount of info out there makes them particularly attractive from a DIY point of view. Both Heat Geek and Urban Plumber have installed plenty of them including in their own homes.

    Glyn Hudson, one of the founders of Open Energy Monitor has DIY fitted one in his parents house and has posted a couple of videos on his YT channel https://www.youtube.com/@GlynHudson/videos. His latest video reviews how it has performed since it was installed last year. As well as topping the performance charts and being the most popular HP (24 out of 70) up on https://heatpumpmoniyltor.org, the majority of the Heat Geek fitted HPs up there are Vaillant.

    Another good point Glyn makes is the importance of a door blower test when carrying out your heat loss calculations as if he had used the suggested air changes (ACH) values then his calculated heat loss would have been much higher resulting in selecting an oversized HP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,283 ✭✭✭championc


    If you change the filtering to a min of just 7 days, then it's now 98 systems out of 225 are Vaillant's. For me too, the fact that Heat Geek can confidently do a minimum COP guarantee of 4.0 too says a lot. 3 self installs now in the charts - i'll be no. 4 :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 404 ✭✭andyd12


    Do you or anyone have a link or specific Shelly EM to buy?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    https://www.shelly.com/en-ie/products/product-overview/shelly-em-120a

    50amp clamp will be fine (and is smaller)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 94 ✭✭Rossdarragh1


    Has anyone on here ever had an issue with high usage on their Panasonic heat pump? I had an issue where by the auxiliary element would kick in one day a week to increase the temperature to protect against legionella. However the element is only suppose to kick in for an hour or so. There's a fault in mine however and the element doesn't recognise when the temperature has increased sufficiently.

    This has resulted in the element failing from over use which is very rare. The element itself is quite expensive to replace. I'm just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience?

    I have since put in a new element and turned off the function for legionella as it was happening again. This had been happening unknown to me for over a year and obviously increased my bill as a result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Some difference in HP usage the last few days after a very mild Oct / Nov! Nearly 33KWH yesterday.

    Some car charging 11-12 as well



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    HP chart



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭munsterfan2


    Heat pump usage this month - Waterkotte GSHP, only source of heating/hot water 240sqm



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    jesus i feel like im doing something wrong at that rate! how is your usage so low the last few days?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    This is mine for comparison, Samsung A2W, 192 sq/m again only heat source.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭testtech05


    Sorry to derail a small bit but what devices are you using with HA to log the data from the pump? Id be interested to do something similar on an existing HA setup



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Just a shelly EM, i have 3, one for the mains, one for the ev charger and one for the HP and then various other smart plugs that measure some other high draw items.

    https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-em/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    What temp are you heating house to? Oh I see its gshp, that will be factor in lower usage then cyrus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    what is your usage looking like newhouse? i know you run a lowish flow rate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    I'm waiting to see data from smart meter on esb but last few nights i have been running 30deg flow from midnight to 10am mostly night rate 18c and house is still 21/22 come 7/8pm. Kitchen gets up to 23 with running that long, nice for herself working from but maybe not necessary. I'm expecting approx 18-24kwh. Have individual meter for heat pump but forgot to take note last night what it was at.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    remind me again, you have no comp curve just a set flow rate? and no zones? is it UFH and rads or just UFH?

    does it run during the day?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    I've changed my heating strategy in the last 2 months since I moved to a new smart meter tariff, so I have been looking at my HP consumption closely recently. As you can see, the difference between 2023 and this year is stark, but I put this down to the very mild weather heating only coming a week or two ago!!.

    Up to now, I have just been letting the HP call for heat and hot water as it needs it, so every time I had a shower, it would come on and top it up. If one room needs heat, the HP would come on and heat that room and only that room. I'm in a new build; it's an A1 house with underfloor heating upstairs and downstairs, and I have 12 zones!

    I am lucky also that I have a 300-liter buffer tank, so I have plenty of hot water storage, so I delay heating the hot water to 2 am and shut it off at 8 am. I give it another boost at 2 pm when hopefully, there will be Solar PV, but then nothing until 2 am where it heats at 6.33 cents/kWh.

    I have now started in the past 2 weeks is timing the heating to come on at 03:30 am until 5 am and set all the temp stats to a high value, so in effect, I have one zone. My thoughts are to use the thermal mass of the house to retain the heat, and if the HP is on, it may as well be on for the whole house, not just one room. From looking at The Heat Geek guy, it seems this is the most efficient way to do it anyway.

    It seems to be working away great; the house temps are steady, and no one is complaining. Now with the weather in the low digits, I have timed the whole house to come on at 7 pm for an hour or two, just to give it another top-up for the evening. Again, artificially setting all the stats to a high enough temp, they all come on. 

    Ill keep ye posted on how I get on all winter

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Nope i didn't find curve efficient for me. I could run at 29 and even 28 i tried but it introduced too much cycling. I found 30deg bit of a sweet spot that i get minimal cycling so continuous running. I run house off 1 programmable stat and no zones, flow rates adjusted so living areas get more.

    For day of 19th midnight to 10am had usage of 14.6kwh, that's including days dhw too which comes on at 5am. 242 sqm house.

    yes ufh 1 zone. NO does not come on after 10am, Living areas 22/23 for day then.

    Post edited by newhouse87 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Yep changed to similar strategy last winter, the on off method is not efficient, hp goes to effort to heat ufh water for 1 room, Cools down, another room calls and has to start all over again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    thanks have you set it to not come on during the day or it just never calls for heat due to the temps?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    It wouldn't come on at 22/23 anyway but i have it programmed the 1 stat i use that during 10am to midnight period it wont come on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    thanks, final qn! if i remove all of the zones on the UFH how do i make it that one stat calls for all?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Turn off all other stats or turn them really low like 12 and just have the 1 stat you want to use high up enough it will call and with actuator heads off at manifold, flow will go to all zones. Bit awkward with a basic stat as you will have to switich it lower temp to turn it off but with programmable stat you can add in timed periods where you set it high so will call and other timed periods set it to like 17 so wont call.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭munsterfan2


    The watterkotte Heatpump has an integration for home assistant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭munsterfan2


    Hi,

    House was built in 2019-21, so high spec insulation. The heatpump gives a COP of 6 most of the year - less in summer as its only hot water. Room temps downstairs generally 21c.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 439 ✭✭Exiled Rebel


    temperature in the house is 22 degrees (some stats in smaller rooms read 22.5) as that's what herself likes. i'm grand with it.

    it was a self build project, built to passive house standards. 193m2 (~2,100sqft) bungalow. 8kw thermia ASHP, flow rate is either 28.5 or 30 degrees (the lower figure is in brackets which i think is the temp it returns to the ASHP at).

    like @newhouse87 I employ an open loop type setup and have done so since the heat pump was commissioned. even though the heat pump has upped its effort over the past three days i'm more than happy with the kWh figures i'm seeing. i have had no need to adjust the heat pump since last winter, it just does its own thing which is great and something i had not expected.

    hot water is heated whenever the temperature drops below the 40 degree set point so it can come on at any time but its very quick at bringing the water back up to 50 degrees. legionella cycle runs once a week on a saturday night.

    there's a lot to be said for airtightness and high levels of insulation.

    Post edited by Exiled Rebel on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,283 ✭✭✭championc


    Vaillant AroTherm 5kW - 22kWh yesterday and a COP of 3.20 - very happy with that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭DC999


    Very jealous of both 'airtightness and high levels of insulation' :)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭allinthehead


    Mitsubishi Srk 50 zs-wf air to air heat pump. 3 story, 1400 sq ft. Heat pump is on the ground floor, really have to ramp up the temperature at the moment to get the heat upstairs. Will be fitting another unit upstairs soon. Upstairs temps, 20.5. Downstairs 22.5.

    ☀️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Would be thinking its cheaper to heat 2 stories or above then bungalows some of us are heating. I have to heat all house floor where relative i know only has half the sq footage to heat essentially as heat rises to upper floors and smaller roof for heat loss.

    Would that be fair to surmise? Just something to take into account when looking at figures here and also temps people are heating their house to as good bit more energy in these temps to heat to 22 rather then 20.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Generally yes, if a house has the same m², the 2 story house would be easier to heat than a bungalow. As it has half the roof.

    Terrace is easier than semi detached, semi detached is easier than standalone. (Shared walls)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭DC999


    Yeah, we use very little heating upstairs. It 'leaks'. But we prefer upstairs to be cooler too.

    Changed the hall rad to a larger one recently and heat wanders upstairs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Yes just highlighting as some people jump to conclusions and think they are using way too much compared to another poster, lot of factors to consider so would probably be best if specified what you are heating and to what temp when posting figures.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭THE ALM


    Consumption for our bungalow 165m2 which has had several upgrades including triple glazed windows, walls pumped and I have bumped up the roof insulation to about 300mm.

    HLI is 1.7 and I calculated heat loss a few different ways and all very similar at about 6800-7000w

    This runs 24/7 and covers heating and hot water to 47°C once a day in a 250l cylinder. I used to leave the water to heat whenever the temp dropped 3° below set temp but changed about a week ago to once overnight on the cheap EV rate. I also turned off the legionella cycle about a week ago also, this ran once a week.

    Run it at three temp settings with a set back of 2° between 22:00 and 04:30 and boost of 2° at 04:30 to 06:00 on the cheap EV rate.

    Temp of house varies from about 19-19.8° which we are happy with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Folks for those of you that have opened all zones on UFH do you open the flow meters to the max level for all zones as well or does it matter? i presume if all zones are open they should all be open as possible?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Have More flow going to living areas and least going to bathroom which is right beside plant room so shorter run needs less flow. Open all until they read the same so heat pump at max flow and then adjust up.or down as needed for particular room.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,509 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    thanks, my heat pump itself is maybe 30-40m away from the manifold, is it that distance thats important or the distance to the rest of the plant ( the cylinders pumps etc)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Its the length of the individual loops from manifold to room and back is what's used to calculate flow rate.



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