Question on windscreen bird strikes

Alun

The missus was due to fly out to the states yesterday, but at some stage early in the flight they apparently had a bird strike on the windscreen and had to return to Dublin. The information given was a bit scant, and as a relative noob on such matters I have a few questions that I'd like to ask, purely out of interest.

In total they were airborne for about 1.5 hours, but I assume something like that would have happened at fairly low altitude when in the initial climb. She did say that the pilot appeared to throttle back much earlier than usual on ascent, so maybe that was when it happened. In that case, couldn't they have returned almost immediately, or would they have needed to have dumped or burnt up fuel before doing that?

At some stage, albeit quite late, the pilot announced what had happened, and at the same time announced they were currently flying over Cork. This seems like an odd way to fly to Philadelphia to me .. I thought in general flights to the US kept quite high, latitude wise.

They then appeared to fly in a big loop following the coast over the sea northwards towards Dublin. They were flying quite low at 10k feet which I assume was to minimize any extra damage should the windscreen fail further. It was just 'cracked' at that point according to the pilot. Is that usual?

Silenceisbliss

dunno about flight paths but im sure google will tell you.

but as for bird strikes, they are not uncommon and they usually cause minimal damage. Id put up some pics I have here but alas im not at my PC. windscreens are extremely .... gargantuanly resiliant, seriously. ( i cant remember exactly but A310 winscreen I think can withstand in the region of 100 tonnes of pressure. It's actually literally garganuan.

the bird very very doubtfully cracked the window, but it could have cracked the seal around the windscreen, we have a few cases of that on the system. so the air seel could have been comprimised. if you tell me the airline and I can try find out and even try find a picture. if im lucky. you never know, it may end up with us in lufthansa technik.

peter1892

The North Atlantic tracks change on a daily basis, depending on winds & other weather factors.

Although in this case they might have routed back towards Cork in order to avoid conflicting traffic heading into the system from Europe (if they were already in the track system by the time they decided to divert). Just a guess...

FlutterinBantam

Hmm.. even the smallest departure from the norm on "leading edges" can be catastrophically magnified at the speeds a/c travel at.

Any deformation to the area around the cockpit windscreen would merit a return if instanced early in the take off and climb phase of the flight.

Alun

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

if you tell me the airline and I can try find out and even try find a picture. if im lucky. you never know, it may end up with us in lufthansa technik.

It was US Airways flight 723 DUB-PHL on Wednesday 3rd December. A Boeing 757-200 if flightstats.com is to be believed. That'd be cool if you could come up with a picture!

FOGOFUNK

This plane was in our hangar today. The whole windscreen was covered up. Definitley a bird strike.

Alun

FOGOFUNK wrote: »

This plane was in our hangar today. The whole windscreen was covered up. Definitely a bird strike.

Any clue as to the extent of the actual damage?

FOGOFUNK

I had a quick look in the cockpit and I didnt see anything striking. I would guess it was a snag with the seal, or a worrying crack.

highlydebased

Not particularly odd for it to route over Cork at all, probably taking one of the southerly NAT's...

If they were 90 mins into the flight and still over Cork, well they would have probably not gone too near to the NAT. I'm not too sure, but I don't think the 75 can dump fuel, so it would nessecitate staying airborne to burn off the fuel.

One place you dont want to be going with a cracked windsheild is transatlantic!

View Profile

The 757 dosent have the capability to dump fuel but you should have been able to land without much of a hold as its maximum landing mass isn't restricted by its maximum takeoff mass.

*Kol*

FOGOFUNK wrote: »

I had a quick look in the cockpit and I didnt see anything striking. I would guess it was a snag with the seal, or a worrying crack.

Unusual that you couldn't see anything? It's unlikely that it's a problem with a seal. If there was an impact there should be visible damage.

Alun

*Kol* wrote: »

Unusual that you couldn't see anything? It's unlikely that it's a problem with a seal. If there was an impact there should be visible damage.

Well, according to one of the passengers who got off the plane from the front that my wife spoke too, it was definitely a bird strike. The windscreen was covered with blood apparently. And the pilot definitely mentioned a crack somewhere in his announcement.

FOGOFUNK

*Kol* wrote: »

Unusual that you couldn't see anything? It's unlikely that it's a problem with a seal. If there was an impact there should be visible damage.

I didnt say I didnt see anything, I didnt notice any big cracks. I wasnt looking out for cracks and the windscreens were both covered over.

*Kol*

FOGOFUNK wrote: »

I didnt say I didnt see anything, I didnt notice any big cracks. I wasnt looking out for cracks and the windscreens were both covered over.

Fair enough. I would have thought if it was "a worrying crack" you might have seen it, or if there was blood? It was probably dark if the windscreens were covered.

Celtic Mech

I love to see guys speculating on here on what happened---windscreen cracked or not. Things is..Pilot reported Birdstrike most likely on the take off phase. If he, as the person in charge of the aircraft safety is not happy...he turns around and returns to the airport (maybe that will take some time...burn off fuel etc if the situation allows, thus not having to carry out an over-weight landing).
Bottom line is, Capt turns the flight around...writes up the prob in the aircrafts Tech Logbook. Appropriately Licenced Engineer for the aircraft type in question comes to the Aircraft...in accordance with the Aircraft Maintenance Manual carries out a Birdstrike Inspection (reference off top of my head is 05-51-14 and 05-51-19 for an airbus anyway). He/She carries out a phase examination after having the bird remains cleaned off the aircraft. This means that there are items to carry out on the first phase...inspections. IF nothing is found..More than likely the a/c can be returned to service. BUT if something is found...this brings you on to the 2nd phase etc. More than likely this will require something to be done immediately or within a set amount of flight cycles. You can safely say of a crack is found in the windscreen that it has to be replaced!
Its fairly simple...the limits are laid down in black and white and thats the bible we operate to. Captain wasnt happy after initial impact so he turn the flight back and nobody would ever question him about this.

FlutterinBantam

Aaah now, I don't think anyone was speculating on what happened.

To me it seemed just to be a general discussion and the only item that was queried seemed to be the routing taken to return.

We really all know the procedure to be taken it these circumstances, and the fact that the pilot in command is ,of course ,justified in making the decision to return to the departure airport or diversionary one if not happy.

Alun

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Aaah now, I don't think anyone was speculating on what happened.

To me it seemed just to be a general discussion and the only item that was queried seemed to be the routing taken to return.

Exactly. The only thing that I (and my wife who was on the flight) found a bit odd as a layperson about the whole thing was that it took quite as long as it did to get back to Dublin after it happened, assuming it all happened just after take-off, that's all, and that was adequately answered, thanks.

She's currently waiting to board the same flight today, so let's hope this attempt goes a bit better this time!

*Kol*

Thanks Celtic Mech for answering a question that wasn't asked, and for providing gen on a different aircraft type. And managing to get on your high horse at the same time. Bravo.

yaeger

Yes Bravo indeed.......I am sure most NORMAL posters here couldnt give a hoot about the particular FCOM/MMEL reference but thanks all the same its nice to know airbus and boeing do have a procedure for said incident and there I was thinking i could just make stuff up... ah well.
Question pretty much answered....Cork routing due to southerly NAT track for crossing or only entry point available at around the time for highest level achievable for said flight just departed outta dublin with heavy load etc etc.
Return to Dublin and not shannon due probable maintenance contract with dublin and not shannon and best place to reschedule pax or put them up for a delay in hotels etc etc Slow return to reduce landing weight by fuel burn and possible just a cautious speed to reduce chance of aggrevating windscreen damage etc etc but again all just specualtion I couldnt possible know as i was not on that flight deck...thank feck as its an antique :cool:

O CM and as for speculating......Didnt you just do that by saying it was most likely on Take off phase !!!! Very likely as tis a common phase for such things but then why continue to cork before deciding to return but sure all we can do is speculate... Thats ALL we can do from the comfort of our computers.

Its all very simple really..........isnt it !

Celtic Mech

*Kol* wrote: »

Thanks Celtic Mech for answering a question that wasn't asked, and for providing gen on a different aircraft type. And managing to get on your high horse at the same time. Bravo.

Relax lads...wasnt having a go at anyone here with my first post. Apologies to anyone who may have taken me up the wrong way...was not intended in that way at all.