Is it any wonder ...

RiverWilde

I've been reading around boards today and thread after thread concerns people being ripped off. How the hell do retailers et al expect people to spend their hard earned cash here in the south when there is such blatant profiteering going on?

Riv

wmpdd3

Back that up please, I would say the overall feeling on boards doesn't reflect that.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

+1. Back that up please!

craichoe

RiverWilde wrote: »

I've been reading around boards today and thread after thread concerns people being ripped off. How the hell do retailers et al expect people to spend their hard earned cash here in the south when there is such blatant profiteering going on?

Riv

What kind of stupid comment is that, go to Germany, lots of stuff is cheaper there. :rolleyes:

Shelflife

+1 fed up with people screaming rip off

Gillo

As I posted in some other thread another orphan dies:D

RiverWilde

Yes of course - hordes of people going north because of all the great bargains to be had in the south. Em, where?

Riv

Dennis the Stone

I suffered a terrible injustice last week when the self-service machine in Dunnes Stores swallowed my two euro and I had to put a packet of toffypops back

gerrycollins

RiverWilde wrote: »

Yes of course - hordes of people going north because of all the great bargains to be had in the south. Em, where?

Riv

thats just cheaper still does not justify your statement on irish retailers profiteering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profiteering_(business)

RiverWilde

Oh get a grip Gerry, as a consumer having to live and work in the south who has seen prices go up to insane levels over a very short period of time and then compared those prices to those of the north; frankly it smacks of profiteering. When you see identical prices in shops across the board where there is supposed to be 'competition,' it smacks of profiteering. Further to that this is a forum where individuals can express their opinions - not a court. If you have information that dispels the aura of profiteering from the southern Irish retail sector, feel free to provide it. Otherwise please stop being an annoying troll.

Riv

gerrycollins

so irish retailers jack up the prices of their stock to make an enormous profit even though there is competition within an hour from dublin to sligo(give or take) that doesnt sound right does it?
is there for example an Dunnes or TESCO within one hour south of the border of newry or Enniskillen that has adjusted its prices to compete with the north?

im picking an hour as I would believe its a reasonable distance in time to travel to do ones weekly shopping.

do you not think for a second if they could reduce their prices to keep their customers they would?

I know if I were a retailer along the border regions I would do what ever it took to keep the business with me and not see it dissappearing. do you think retailers would rather go out of business than compete with the northern stores. many are facing that prospect and purley because they would be running their establishment at a loss to compete with the northern stores.

ejmaztec

gerrycollins wrote: »

so irish retailers jack up the prices of their stock to make an enormous profit even though there is competition within an hour from dublin to sligo(give or take) that doesnt sound right does it?
is there for example an Dunnes or TESCO within one hour south of the border of newry or Enniskillen that has adjusted its prices to compete with the north?

im picking an hour as I would believe its a reasonable distance in time to travel to do ones weekly shopping.

do you not think for a second if they could reduce their prices to keep their customers they would?

I know if I were a retailer along the border regions I would do what ever it took to keep the business with me and not see it dissappearing. do you think retailers would rather go out of business than compete with the northern stores. many are facing that prospect and purley because they would be running their establishment at a loss to compete with the northern stores.

I think that it's the same everywhere that some retailers are more flexible than others when it comes to prices.

Down here in Kerry during a recent electric cooker buying expedition, one local independent retailer told me that he couldn't possibly go below €645. Currys were selling the same model at €599. I managed to get it for €589 from another independent local retailer.

After researching the price on the internet, I don't think that I could have got a better price in the North.

Shelflife

I think that riverwilde is under the assumption that all retailers make enourmous amounts of money and go on wonderful holidays every year.

Acouple of facts, 1. they in the north have a lower vat rate, 2 they have a lower wage structure ,3. insurance costs are lower 4.the stg rate is very attractive at the moment.

these all contribute to the fact that some item in the north are cheaper.

of course the cost of travel and the time it takes is rarely taken into account and buying items such as alcohol that you dont need just because they are cheaper is not saving money , its actually an additional expense.

many of the items because thay are priced in stg seem to be cheaper when in fact they are not.

blatant profiteering is a very ugly term and i can assure you that the small irish retailers are not doing this.

RW if you get the highest salary you can is that blatant profiteering ??

kippy

Shelflife wrote: »

I think that riverwilde is under the assumption that all retailers make enourmous amounts of money and go on wonderful holidays every year.

Acouple of facts, 1. they in the north have a lower vat rate, 2 they have a lower wage structure ,3. insurance costs are lower 4.the stg rate is very attractive at the moment.

these all contribute to the fact that some item in the north are cheaper.

of course the cost of travel and the time it takes is rarely taken into account and buying items such as alcohol that you dont need just because they are cheaper is not saving money , its actually an additional expense.

many of the items because thay are priced in stg seem to be cheaper when in fact they are not.

blatant profiteering is a very ugly term and i can assure you that the small irish retailers are not doing this.

RW if you get the highest salary you can is that blatant profiteering ??

Well said, especially in realation to travel times and buying stuff you dont actually need just for the sake of it.
Those in the north operate from a far lower cost base. Wages in the North are also in general far lower so people wouldnt have as much money to spend, as well as all the other factors you mention.
Kippy

RiverWilde

Shelflife wrote: »

RW if you get the highest salary you can is that blatant profiteering ??

If your remuneration is far in excess of actual work done, then yes it would be profiteering.

kippy

RiverWilde wrote: »

If your remuneration is far in excess of actual work done, then yes it would be profiteering.

In that case everyone should be on the same wage doing the same amount of work.....which is very obviously not practical.

Do you know that wages in the North are far lower than they are here for many professions?

wmpdd3

RiverWilde wrote: »

If your remuneration is far in excess of actual work done, then yes it would be profiteering.

I do 45 hrs a week listening to people like you, I should be on Denis O Brien's wage structure!

PS I take it you live in Dublin, I find the cost of living fine in this country then again I got very good value on my house how about you.

ejmaztec

Shelflife wrote: »

blatant profiteering is a very ugly term and i can assure you that the small irish retailers are not doing this.

How do you know that every small Irish retailer, or any other for that matter, is as pure as the driven snow? I know a number of retailers operating a dual-price structure - one price for customers that they know, and one for the recent arrivals and tourists. The same goes for certain pubs.

Shelflife

There will always be a few fools who try to take advantage of situations, but in the main most retailers do not.

Unfotunately people are of the opinion that all of the cash that goes over the counter is profit. I was once told that i was a millionaire to which i responded yeah i am, thats why i work 7 days a week and im here at 9pm on a sunday evening.

RiverWilde

"I cannot understand how you can have between 37.5 per cent and 47.5 per cent difference in a product North and south"

That's a quote from Mary Coughlan - http://www.independent.ie/national-news/grinch-minister-shrugs-off-retail-pleas-1566353.html - if the Tanaiste can't fathom why there is such a price differential, how the hell are the rest of us poor divils expected to?

Riv

Shelflife

QED

quoting a politician who is so far out of her depth in a govt who are so far out of their depth is laughable.

RiverWilde

Shelflife wrote: »

QED

quoting a politician who is so far out of her depth in a govt who are so far out of their depth is laughable.

Ah well when I'm laughing all the way home with my shopping from Northern Ireland - whether or not quoting politicans is laughable will be last on my santa list.

I'm sure thinking you're right about the Tanaiste will comfort you over the Christmas period.

Riv

ejmaztec

Anyone any idea of the rental per square metre for a shop in the North? I know that, in the Tralee Manor West retail park, it was recently mentioned as being €247 per sq. metre pa. A 695 Sq m unit has just been occupied by a Pet-mania store clocking up an annual rent of €171665. I think Harvey Norman's non-furniture unit is possibly slightly bigger. They took over an ESB unit at around €180000 pa rent when the ESB closed their shops. By the time the annual rates and payroll and the other usual overheads are added, a hell of a lot of stuff has to be shifted to break even.

kippy

RiverWilde wrote: »

Ah well when I'm laughing all the way home with my shopping from Northern Ireland - whether or not quoting politicans is laughable will be last on my santa list.

I'm sure thinking you're right about the Tanaiste will comfort you over the Christmas period.

Riv

What shopping will you be getting up there and do you factor in travel time, fuel, traffic and waiting times?
What is your profession by the way? I can tell you straight out that a person doing the same job as you in the North would be on FAR less money no matter what you do. That coupled with rents,lower VAT rates all add up to shopping being less up there in general.

To be honest the only way I could justify going up north was if I needed a SERIOUS amount of beer and/or some electronics goods which in general are cheaper from online stores anyway.

Now, there may be profiteering going on down here, but I think your definition of it is way out and doesnt do justice to the work and money we all earn down here for doing more or less the same jobs are the people up North who wouldnt get paid so much.

Kippy

RiverWilde

kippy wrote: »

What shopping will you be getting up there and do you factor in travel time, fuel, traffic and waiting times?
What is your profession by the way? I can tell you straight out that a person doing the same job as you in the North would be on FAR less money no matter what you do. That coupled with rents,lower VAT rates all add up to shopping being less up there in general.

To be honest the only way I could justify going up north was if I needed a SERIOUS amount of beer and/or some electronics goods which in general are cheaper from online stores anyway.

Now, there may be profiteering going on down here, but I think your definition of it is way out and doesnt do justice to the work and money we all earn down here for doing more or less the same jobs are the people up North who wouldnt get paid so much.

Kippy

Considering that I don't work on weekends and I wouldn't be getting paid anyway on weekends I'm not losing there. As regards the rest I'm spending my time. I spend I imagine 20 - 30 euros on diesel and the rest is a family day out. I could spend that time and energy here but considering that the drive is roughly 1 and a half to two hours away on good roads, it's well worth the hike. The people are friendlier, the retailers seem happy to get my money, the prices are considerably lower, there is a much broader range of goods, my children get a great day out. When I could travel the same distance to Athlone for a much lesser product, frankly I'll take my money where it is appreciated and goes further.

As regards people in the north being paid less, from what I've seen they have a much better standard of living, social housing, youth clubs etc. Where I live if you have children there is almost nowhere you can take them without having to spend silly amounts of money, by silly I mean exhorbitant.

Even with our supposed higher incomes, the quality of life is much lower here and when you couple that with rip of retail prices any increase in gross income is immediately wiped out. I can go north buy superior goods and come home with money in my pocket.

I buy groceries, childrens clothes, baby products, school uniforms. Anything really. I don't buy large items from the likes of argos as I don't have the space in my car to transport it and they don't deliver to the south. Toys, books, the list goes on. If see a bargain and I see plenty I take it. I'm fed up of prices down here that devour my income and when I consider wear and tear on my car etc. I can inflict the same wear and tear going north as I can going to Galway or Sligo or Athlone.



Riv

kippy

RiverWilde wrote: »

Considering that I don't work on weekends and I wouldn't be getting paid anyway on weekends I'm not losing there. As regards the rest I'm spending my time. I spend I imagine 20 - 30 euros on diesel and the rest is a family day out. I could spend that time and energy here but considering that the drive is roughly 1 and a half to two hours away on good roads, it's well worth the hike. The people are friendlier, the retailers seem happy to get my money, the prices are considerably lower, there is a much broader range of goods, my children get a great day out. When I could travel the same distance to Athlone for a much lesser product, frankly I'll take my money where it is appreciated and goes further.

As regards people in the north being paid less, from what I've seen they have a much better standard of living, social housing, youth clubs etc. Where I live if you have children there is almost nowhere you can take them without having to spend silly amounts of money, by silly I mean exhorbitant.

Even with our supposed higher incomes, the quality of life is much lower here and when you couple that with rip of retail prices any increase in gross income is immediately wiped out. I can go north buy superior goods and come home with money in my pocket.

I buy groceries, childrens clothes, baby products, school uniforms. Anything really. I don't buy large items from the likes of argos as I don't have the space in my car to transport it and they don't deliver to the south. Toys, books, the list goes on. If see a bargain and I see plenty I take it. I'm fed up of prices down here that devour my income and when I consider wear and tear on my car etc. I can inflict the same wear and tear going north as I can going to Galway or Sligo or Athlone.



Riv

1. I wouldnt be expecting someone to travel to Galway or Athlone for shopping if it wasnt their nearest retail center for a start.
2. While you may think you "wouldnt be getting paid for you time on saturday anyway" I would take the opinion that I have better things to be doing rather than saving a few euro by driving in traffic, dealing with queues (which would pretty much take up the whole day). I would regard spending the whole day "shopping" as a complete waste of a day.
3. People up North get paid less, if you think their quality of life is better (and I personally think you have a point here) you should move up there full time. The reason they charge less up there is two fold, people have less money to spend, wages for staff are lower, the opposite is the case here (as well as all the other associated costs mentioned already). There are many hidden quality of life issues still up there which may not be too obvious from the outside.
4. I've seen as many shops local to me with friendly people in them and who seem very appreciative of the business, granted there are a few out there where the staff dont seem that interested but you'll generally find these are the large chain stores and not local family owned and run businesses (where you can generally bargain down on the large items as well)
5. Finally, and this is my main issue with the whole thing: "If I see a bargain and I see plenty, I take it". This is exactly why I think going up there shopping doesnt really "save" you any money at all. People travel and "invest" a whole day into shopping. A lot feel they have to buy anything they see cheaper than in the South at all. They end up buying stuff for the sake of it, that they may not have intended on buying and didnt actually need. All this does is add to the cost of the trip, I know this is probably what I would do and would negate going up there in the first place for any but the good I mentioned earlier.

If you feel you are saving money, enjoying your shopping experience and getting a lot from the whole experience then fair play to you, carry on, I'd do the same myself if I felt it was of benefit but I do understand a lot of the reasoning for price differences.
Kippy