Right Lane Hoggers

Alun

Wertz wrote: »

You're a lot longer on the roads than I am peasant but I have to say I've had more...many more...people cut me up whilst pulling out of the inside lane to overtake, than I've had people cutting back into the inside lane.

That's been my experience too, although "undertaking" is a "skill" I've only really had to perfect since I arrived in Ireland.

peasant

Wertz wrote: »

You're a lot longer on the roads than I am peasant but I have to say I've had more...many more...people cut me up whilst pulling out of the inside lane to overtake, than I've had people cutting back into the inside lane. It's as liable to happen in either lane IMO

Once again, this just goes to show what an incredible amount of utterly incompetent drivers there are on Irish roads ...nothing else.

In fifteen years of driving on German motorways I've had about three "brown trouser" moments where someone pulled out in front of me ...here I get the same amount in fifteen kilometers

Alun wrote: »

That's been my experience too, although "undertaking" is a "skill" I've only really had to perfect since I arrived in Ireland.

Sorry, but "undertaking" is not a "skill" ...it's sheer and utter stupidity.

Tempting, veery tempting, I agree ...given the standards on our motorways ...but stupid nonetheless.

cyclopath2001

'Shut the back door': Stay behind him/her, but in the inside lane (since you're not overtaking), not in the blind spot, but making sure not to allow any space for undertakers to overtake you and switch in & undertake?

crosstownk

Look - it's really this simple:

If you are on a dual carriageway and in the right lane with nothing ahead in either lane then move left and allow faster moving traffic overtake you. What's the point in holding up the vehicle behind you? Just move over - it doesn't matter whether you have a DB7 or a Micra - just move over. It couldn't be any simpler.

eringobragh

crosstownk wrote: »

Look - it's really this simple:

If you are on a dual carriageway and in the right lane with nothing ahead in either lane then move left and allow faster moving traffic overtake you. What's the point in holding up the vehicle behind you? Just move over - it doesn't matter whether you have a DB7 or a Micra - just move over. It couldn't be any simpler.

Agreed

I've recently in the past few weeks came accross 3 clowns who were in the rightlane and the left competely empty and I flashed and beep if nessessary and they did move over and once past them I went backto the left lane, I thenlook in the mirror and the twat has moved back out to the right lane WTF
:mad:

Oh and thumbs up to the muppets that mash the brakes when I flash them :mad::mad:

bigpinkelephant

peasant wrote: »

Sorry, but "undertaking" is not a "skill" ...it's sheer and utter stupidity.

Please explain why?

peasant

because its dangerous

- the single driver you're "undertaking" might just pull left without looking (they're dozy enough to block the overtaking lane, so surely they are dozy enough to just pull over when they feel like it)

- the left lane is the natural escape route for those in the overtaking lane. If (for whatever reason) things get hairy in the right lane ...all of a sudden there will be a rush to the left ...where you are "undertaking" them all

- traffic on the right usually isn't a homogenous group. There's bullying and tailgating going on. One of the the group may suddenly decide they've had enough and pull over

Seth Brundle

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

Please explain why?

In fairness, if you need to ask then you shouldn't drive!

bigpinkelephant

kbannon wrote: »

In fairness, if you need to ask then you shouldn't drive!

I know why it could be considered dangerous, I just don't think people who do it are automatically stupid.
If I am in the left lane on a motorway and there is a granny in the right lane crawling along then of course I'm going to keep going. I'm not going to slow down to her 70kph for fear of undertaking her, and hold up everyone behind me in the process.

RandomAccess

When heading north on the M1 just past the Airport I find the traffic in the left lane is doing about 100k, while the traffic in the right lane is doing about 120-140. I'm usually in the right hand lane and theres always some gimp steaming up behind with indicator on and flashes his lights.
WTF, should we all slow to 100k and merge with the left lane to let you pass.. Go **** yourself.

Once the slow traffic clears a few miles out, people move to the left lane again anyway.

Now I only use the right lane to overtake slower moving traffic, however I see some morons swinging in and out of left and right lane even though they are moving much faster than the left lane, have no cars behind them, and the distance between the cars in the left lane is only about 4 trucks length. Thats nuts

crosstownk

Once I'm outside of Dublin I use cruise control most of the time on a motorway or dual carriage way. On a motorway I set the CC to 125km/h (Yes - call the Gardaí and have me arrested). I only use the right lane to overtake. I may stay a while longer in the right lane to overtake a distant slower vehicle, but I'm always concious of what's behind me. I keep left whenever possible as it makes life (and other's) easier. But I don't like to disengage the CC if I can avoid it.

AugustusMaximus

crosstownk wrote: »

Once I'm outside of Dublin I use cruise control most of the time on a motorway or dual carriage way. On a motorway I set the CC to 125km/h (Yes - call the Gardaí and have me arrested). I only use the right lane to overtake. I may stay a while longer in the right lane to overtake a distant slower vehicle, but I'm always concious of what's behind me. I keep left whenever possible as it makes life (and other's) easier. But I don't like to disengage the CC if I can avoid it.

Doing that is far better than swerving in and out of the overtaking lane.

I too would stay int he overtaking lane if I think I'll be overtaking another car maybe 20 or 25 seconds down the road. At the same time though, I'd be very cautious to the presence of any cars behind me who may want to pass me.

In the end it comes down to three groups of drivers who hog the overtaking lane.

1. Those who don't understand the RORs
2. Those who are doing it on purpose
3. Those who are driving in the overtaking lane in the expectation of needing to be in that lane for a roundabout 10 miles down the road.


1. These people should know better. If they passed their driving test, they should have no excuse.
2. These people should be dragged from the car and flogged to death.
3. THis happens a lot on the SSR in Cork going towards the Tunnel. People will stay in the overtaking lane for miles holding up huge trains of traffic. Crazy.

oddone

I posted this account in another thread but received little or no replies:


This was quite a contentious thread by the looks of things but rather than start a new one I just wanted to ask a related question on lane discipline.

I was driving to Dublin from Limerick on the M7 recently.

After passing the Naas turn off where the motorway merges from two
lanes into three I found myself in lane two (or the middle lane for some)
as there was traffic merging from a slip road to my left (not sure what junction that is) and other traffic passing in the outside overtaking lane.

From driving at approx 120kph on the M7 I had to drop my speed to just over 100kph as I notice (for some strange reason) the speed limit reverts to 100k on this new three lane stretch from Naas to Dublin.

This was at approx 10am and the road was busy but not too bad.

As soon as I got the chance I moved into lane one occasionally using lane
two to overtake a number of slower moving tipping lorries and a few who were incapable of driving at over 50mph ()on this excellent road surface.

However here's where it gets frustrating:
Whilst in lane one and driving along at approx 61-64mph, lane two literally filled up with cars doing the same speed who were driving parallel to me
whilst as usual you had your cars for whom the speed limit does not seemingly apply hogging the overtaking lane 3 speeding and not moving back in.
I had a bit of clear road to the next car in front of me at one point and was quite happy as I was making good time and as I don't traverse that route all that often was thinking what a grand stretch of road it was, however next thing there's a jeep who has pulled out up ahead who is moving much slower than me, I check my mirrors in plenty of time (as I know I will have to overtake this vehicle to avoid having to slow down considerably), as above, my mirror is full of lane two hoggers literally bumper to bumper, the car nearest to mine (I'm in lane one) is behind me probably moving a few mph slower but I am approaching the slow moving jeep quite rapidly and wish to make my manoeuvre :
X |
| |
| B
| |
A |

The jeep is represented by X above, I am behind in A
and the car to my right is B.
B is driving slower than me in lane two, I am now up behind the jeep
and have been forced to lower my speed to maintain a gap between me and the vehicle in front (the jeep).
The car in lane two (B) is quite content to carry on at approx 55mph (I'm guessing) whilst he is being continually overtaken by those behind him
(cars are coming up behind him in lane two at greater speed and overtaking using lane 3 before cutting back into lane 2 in front of him up ahead.
So here is why staying in lane one is impossible in this country due to the lack of common sense of others.
So I have two choices, I can 'undertake' the car in lane two by speeding up, meaning I will have to be within a few feet of the jeep so i can merge into lane two ahead of the car that is alongside me or I can grit my teeth, come off the gas considerably and lose time waiting until the continous stream of middle lane hoggers have gone by and I can safely overtake the jeep in front.
Putting my right indicator on illustrating to to those in lane 2 that I wish/need to merge into that stretch to overtake didn't work either as the cars in lane two were too concentrated on maintaining their own speeds and had no interest in allowing me the time or space to safely make my move plus the fact that the 3 lanes were getting busier and busier and they could probably not have safely moved into lane 3 to allow me out either as it was chock-a-block too.
In the end I had to allow a long stream of cars go by in lane two before eventually being able to overtake swiftly and safely before moving back into lane one.
But this is just a small example, I try to obey the ROTR and be a safe driver as much as possible but it's easy to understand why there is such poor lane discipline and why we have lane hoggers, (please understand that I am not advocating it in anyway as it is one of my biggest sources of frustration when on the roads) as trying to obey the rules and do the right thing is often made impossible by the ignorance or lack of common sense of others.
So I lost a few minutes and I got there safely albeit minus a few hairs but I had been reading this thread
a few nights before and I remember saying to myself that I can see why some who had admitted staying in lane two
as this was the only way to could make time / progress had done so.

AugustusMaximus

oddone wrote: »

I posted this account in another thread but received little or no replies:


This was quite a contentious thread by the looks of things but rather than start a new one I just wanted to ask a related question on lane discipline.

I was driving to Dublin from Limerick on the M7 recently.

After passing the Naas turn off where the motorway merges from two
lanes into three I found myself in lane two (or the middle lane for some)
as there was traffic merging from a slip road to my left (not sure what junction that is) and other traffic passing in the outside overtaking lane.

From driving at approx 120kph on the M7 I had to drop my speed to just over 100kph as I notice (for some strange reason) the speed limit reverts to 100k on this new three lane stretch from Naas to Dublin.

This was at approx 10am and the road was busy but not too bad.

As soon as I got the chance I moved into lane one occasionally using lane
two to overtake a number of slower moving tipping lorries and a few who were incapable of driving at over 50mph ()on this excellent road surface.

However here's where it gets frustrating:
Whilst in lane one and driving along at approx 61-64mph, lane two literally filled up with cars doing the same speed who were driving parallel to me
whilst as usual you had your cars for whom the speed limit does not seemingly apply hogging the overtaking lane 3 speeding and not moving back in.
I had a bit of clear road to the next car in front of me at one point and was quite happy as I was making good time and as I don't traverse that route all that often was thinking what a grand stretch of road it was, however next thing there's a jeep who has pulled out up ahead who is moving much slower than me, I check my mirrors in plenty of time (as I know I will have to overtake this vehicle to avoid having to slow down considerably), as above, my mirror is full of lane two hoggers literally bumper to bumper, the car nearest to mine (I'm in lane one) is behind me probably moving a few mph slower but I am approaching the slow moving jeep quite rapidly and wish to make my manoeuvre :
X |
| |
| B
| |
A |

The jeep is represented by X above, I am behind in A
and the car to my right is B.
B is driving slower than me in lane two, I am now up behind the jeep
and have been forced to lower my speed to maintain a gap between me and the vehicle in front (the jeep).
The car in lane two (B) is quite content to carry on at approx 55mph (I'm guessing) whilst he is being continually overtaken by those behind him
(cars are coming up behind him in lane two at greater speed and overtaking using lane 3 before cutting back into lane 2 in front of him up ahead.
So here is why staying in lane one is impossible in this country due to the lack of common sense of others.
So I have two choices, I can 'undertake' the car in lane two by speeding up, meaning I will have to be within a few feet of the jeep so i can merge into lane two ahead of the car that is alongside me or I can grit my teeth, come off the gas considerably and lose time waiting until the continous stream of middle lane hoggers have gone by and I can safely overtake the jeep in front.
Putting my right indicator on illustrating to to those in lane 2 that I wish/need to merge into that stretch to overtake didn't work either as the cars in lane two were too concentrated on maintaining their own speeds and had no interest in allowing me the time or space to safely make my move plus the fact that the 3 lanes were getting busier and busier and they could probably not have safely moved into lane 3 to allow me out either as it was chock-a-block too.
In the end I had to allow a long stream of cars go by in lane two before eventually being able to overtake swiftly and safely before moving back into lane one.
But this is just a small example, I try to obey the ROTR and be a safe driver as much as possible but it's easy to understand why there is such poor lane discipline and why we have lane hoggers, (please understand that I am not advocating it in anyway as it is one of my biggest sources of frustration when on the roads) as trying to obey the rules and do the right thing is often made impossible by the ignorance or lack of common sense of others.
So I lost a few minutes and I got there safely albeit minus a few hairs but I had been reading this thread
a few nights before and I remember saying to myself that I can see why some who had admitted staying in lane two
as this was the only way to could make time / progress had done so.

You did the correct thing. I doubt I'd have the patience for it myself.

MLMs (Middle Lane Morons) are just as stupid as overtaking lane hoggers.

They essentially turn the Naas Dual carriageway into a 2 lane road. What a waste of tarmac and what a waste of government money.

A few signs and a few TV adverts to tell people to keep left when not overtaking could easily make traffic flow a LOT better.

luckat

I wonder if the main problem with Irish driving is that people don't learn driving in school?

If we had Driver's Ed as a mandatory school subject, with stringent safety and driving exams during the course, I suspect that the standard of driving would improve.

Berty

luckat wrote: »

I wonder if the main problem with Irish driving is that people don't learn driving in school?

Considering the motorways are confined to those with full license drivers it is not covered by driving instructors or the test itself.

I started a thread before asking who is teaching people to negotiate roundabouts using their indicators incorrectly because learners drivers all do it.

Maybe drivers ed is the way to go. Who is going to pay for it?

keefg

I use the N7/M7 with monotonus regularity and I find that once you are on the three lane section (regardless of direction) the easiest thing to do is use lane one, set your cruise control to 100kph and enjoy a nice calming drive.

All the other cars seem to be busy cutting each other up, switching lane, flashing lights etc in lanes two and three.

I can quite happily stay in lane one and enjoy a nice smooth, stress free run.

I know it's not the "right" thing to do but that's just the way it is, I have had some near misses in lanes two & three on this road with other cars hacking their way through the traffic trying to save 3 or 4 mins on their journey (eejits).

Berty

keefg wrote: »

I use the N7/M7 with monotonus regularity and I find that once you are on the three lane section (regardless of direction) the easiest thing to do is use lane one, set your cruise control to 100kph and enjoy a nice calming drive.

All the other cars seem to be busy cutting each other up, switching lane, flashing lights etc in lanes two and three.

I can quite happily stay in lane one and enjoy a nice smooth, stress free run.

I know it's not the "right" thing to do but that's just the way it is, I have had some near misses in lanes two & three on this road with other cars hacking their way through the traffic trying to save 3 or 4 mins on their journey (eejits).

Its exactly what I do.

oddone

keefg wrote: »

I use the N7/M7 with monotonus regularity and I find that once you are on the three lane section (regardless of direction) the easiest thing to do is use lane one, set your cruise control to 100kph and enjoy a nice calming drive.

All the other cars seem to be busy cutting each other up, switching lane, flashing lights etc in lanes two and three.

I can quite happily stay in lane one and enjoy a nice smooth, stress free run.

I know it's not the "right" thing to do but that's just the way it is, I have had some near misses in lanes two & three on this road with other cars hacking their way through the traffic trying to save 3 or 4 mins on their journey (eejits).

I think you're right too but what do you do when you inevitably find yourself behind a bus / arctic or car driver who's incapable of driving over 55mph in lane one?

If lane two is busy as it invariably is with hoggers, will you wait and overtake correctly and move back into lane one?

And if you are moving along nicely at 100kph with your cruise control
on and you find you are catching up to a middle lane hogger who is happy
enough plodding along at 80kph will you simply remain in lane one and essentially undertake him/her by sailing past in lane one as if the wasnt there or actually go to the trouble of moving into lane 2 behind him, overtaking him by using lane 3 and then moving back into 2 and in again into one?

Because the above is the problem I wrote about and the biggest problem with solely using lane one even though it is the right thing to do.

ianobrien

crosstownk wrote: »

I have to say, these right lane hoggers are becoming a dying breed, thankfully.

Drive the south link in Cork and you'll see loads!

ianobrien

kingtut wrote: »

Undertaking is illegal in Ireland. You may not overtake on the left unless you are in heavy traffic and the traffic in the right hand lane is moving at a slower pace than that in the right.

If the speed limit for the road I am on is 100km/h and I am in the right hand lane overtaking a string of cars and someone comes up behind me in the right hand lane and flashes / beeps etc then I will not budge! If you need to overtake me then it means that you are exceeding the speed limit...if you were matching my speed or doing less than me then you would never end up passing me.

My rule of thumb, if you flash at me for any reason other than to let me know there is something up ahead then I will ignore you. Luckily it has been a long time since anyway flashed me while in the right hand lane..

As for people who do not know how to indicate or who do not bother!!!!! Well that needs another thread......

Don't bother to police the roads, that is what the garda are for.

Oh, as you are so well read on the rules of the road, you will know that you are supposed to drive in the left hand lane, and use the right hand lane for overtaking. NOW GET OUT OF THE RIGHT HAND LANE!!!!!!!!

Berty

A right hand lane hogger nearly totalled my car earlier.

I was in Limerick heading out the Dublin road and was in the right hand lane overtaking traffic. I was coming up on the exit from Aldi and an "aul bat" pulled straight out at 15kph or less(who knows) straight into the right hand lane without looking. I locked up on the brakes and blew the horn. I stopped inches from her bumper.

Complete disregard for changing lanes, negotiating lanes. My blood boiled :mad:

Matt Simis

I see more people that veer in and out of the left lane every 15seconds when they are travelling over the speed limit slightly (I have no issue with that) as they dont want to be branded a lane hogger. This, I would consider a dangerous activity as lane changing is obviously more risky than just sticking to a lane and most people have no concept of Indication as an intention not an action.. or at all.

When I want to move faster than the limit I stay in the right lane and I steadily overtake (for long stretches). If someone is coming up fast (or already there) on my rear I move out of the way fairly promptly but this rarely happens. Accordingly if there is no one in sight on the left lane I stay there. I dont aim to use the Right lane only when doing an actual overtaking maneuver.

I dont like lane hoggers (I generally sit there and stare angerily) but I also dont approve of fastidious lane swappers, no matter how correct it is in the RotR.

R.O.R

Matt Simis wrote: »

I see more people that veer in and out of the left lane every 15seconds when they are travelling over the speed limit slightly (I have no issue with that) as they dont want to be branded a lane hogger. This, I would consider a dangerous activity as lane changing is obviously more risky than just sticking to a lane and most people have no concept of Indication as an intention not an action.. or at all.

What you are describing here is the correct way to drive on a Motorway - not sitting in the outside lane until someone comes up behind you!

If you drive through the UK or the continent you'll see the above behaviour from the majority of drivers on the roads. Moving in and out of the driving lane at speed can be done easily with no danger to yourself or other road users, as long as you are observing everything around you. Easier to do this on the Motorway than other roads because of the lack of corners.

I've more or less given up on the outside lane in rush hour traffic. The inside lane is a much nicer place to be, and usually has a nicer class of driver in it. Using mainly the inside lane could add anything up to about 5 mins on my daily 1 - 1.5 hour commute but means a hell of a lot less stress.

There was a Road Report on the BBC the other day (about the snow I think) and in the background the overhead electric gantry sign had "Drive left unless overtaking" on. WHY CAN'T THEY DO THAT HERE! Much more usefull than telling me that it will take the same length of time to get to my usual junction as it does everyday.

With more drivers having passed a test to drive on the roads I'm sure things will improve slowly. Even though it's not part of the test, it is in the ROTR which people have to read to pass the theory. Hopefully more and more people will learn the correct way to drive and will in turn pass it on generation to generation - this is how I learnt to drive on Motorways. No one ever gave me Motorway lesson, but from observing my Dad driving on them - and to a certain extent following cars from lane to lane on a busy M6 / M62 teaches you a lot.

Berty

You know in Florida you can pass another vehicle in any lane you please. I dont know about the other states. The outside lane was still used by people going the fastest though.

eringobragh

ianobrien wrote: »

Drive the south link in Cork and you'll see loads!

M6/M4 there not in short supply either! :mad:

Matt Simis

R.O.R wrote: »

What you are describing here is the correct way to drive on a Motorway - not sitting in the outside lane until someone comes up behind you!

Fully aware of that as in the rest of my post... many Irish drivers IMO do not overtake or lane swap safely hence they should stay out of the way and drive in straight lines..

RandomAccess

R.O.R wrote: »

What you are describing here is the correct way to drive on a Motorway - not sitting in the outside lane until someone comes up behind you!

If you drive through the UK or the continent you'll see the above behaviour from the majority of drivers on the roads. Moving in and out of the driving lane at speed can be done easily with no danger to yourself or other road users, as long as you are observing everything around you.

Sorry, but I have to disagree at least in part, if there is a large difference in speed and the gaps between cars are not particularly long, then veering between lanes is just plain dumb.
I understand what you are saying in that the outside lane should not be hogged, but its distracting for everyone involved when some muppet who enjoys following the rules of the road to the letter is yo-yo-ing between lanes.

I DO move into the left lane, but only when its the safe thing to do.
I don't disagree entirely with what you are saying, just that it is not the safest/sanest option 100% of the time, so this should be pointed out.

I think a series of adverts demonstrating road safety would be very well received. I also think we need to increase the usability of our roads, though to be fair they are far better than those in the North of Ireland.
(Anyone who's driven across the foyleside bridge in Derry and had to merge with traffic from the right hand side of a dual carriageway will know what I mean)

ninty9er

oddone wrote: »

I think you're right too but what do you do when you inevitably find yourself behind a bus / arctic or car driver who's incapable of driving over 55mph in lane one?

If you knew your ROTR you'd know the legal speed limit for arctics and busses differs from the limit for cars.

I'm a "Middle Lane Moron" and will make no apology for it. I consider lane 1 to be for slow moving traffic, which on that stretch of road, it generally is.

Seth Brundle

ninty9er wrote: »

If you knew your ROTR you'd know the legal speed limit for arctics and busses differs from the limit for cars.

I'm a "Middle Lane Moron" and will make no apology for it. I consider lane 1 to be for slow moving traffic, which on that stretch of road, it generally is.

Having driven on the M50 and N7 over the years, the fastest lane is more too often lane 1 because people like yourself are sitting in lane 2.
Lane 1 is not crammed with busses and artics!