Tesco and Self Service Checkouts

Shelflife

just in addition, the staff member had no right to ask for id after the transaction was completed and had no right to confiscate the product (thats theft).

i would go and see the manager and talk to him because this is unacceptable behaviour and from the shop point of view its a dangerous procedure.

I would tell him that i wasnt happy and felt violated ( i wouldnt make a big song and dance about it, its not the end of the world ) but would feel less violated if some vouchers came your way.

calex71

i've always been curious about the use of passports as id , id never carry mine except when away.

Can a shop / pub etc legally ask you for your passport as a form of id?
I ask because i don't know but my gut tells me that they cant and can only accept it as id if you offer it? Could some one in the know clear that up for us?

Red Alert

Your sister could technically have just left and not brought back her ID at all and driven off. Once she bought the goods they've no right whatsoever to try and make her give them back.

mikemac

calex71 wrote: »

Can a shop / pub etc legally ask you for your passport as a form of id?
I ask because i don't know but my gut tells me that they cant and can only accept it as id if you offer it? Could some one in the know clear that up for us?

No, it's the property of Dept of Foreign Affairs and is intended for travel or to show to government employees; airport police, immigration officers, etc.
Identifies you as an Irish citizen and you'll see text from the minister asking that people respect that

So a club that a sign "passports only" cannot do this
A bouncer has no right to demand a passport, doesn't mean it doesn't happen though

cgarvey

gerrycollins wrote: »

Trust me I know first hand that if I want to refuse service I have to give a legitimate legal reason why.

I don't trust that advice, sorry.

You have a right to refuse admission, as long as the grounds are non-discriminatory. The person you refuse admission to has no right to an excuse. They can of course take action against you if they believe the reason to be discriminatory (which is why, as you say, you have to be very careful).

My point is, and remains, the person refused has no legal entitlement to a reason for refusal. That's not to be confused, in any way, with any relaxation of your obligations under liquor licensing (dance hall, exemptions, etc.) or equality legislation.

cgarvey

micmclo wrote: »

So a club that a sign "passports only" cannot do this
A bouncer has no right to demand a passport, doesn't mean it doesn't happen though

He/she does. Not having a form of ID that staff are trained to recognise (and recognise fakes, more importantly) is a legitimate reason for refusal. Whether or not it's state/state-sanctioned ID doesn't matter.

MrsMcSteamy

Red Alert wrote: »

Your sister could technically have just left and not brought back her ID at all and driven off. Once she bought the goods they've no right whatsoever to try and make her give them back.

Well she left the goods when she went to get the id

angelfire9

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Tesco only accept passports, I've sen this enforced in loads of Tesco's and heard about it from people who worked there, so this is probably the main issue.

Think this might be kind illegal:

Ref: Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003, Section 15:

15.—The Act of 1988 is amended by inserting the following section after section 34:

“Production of evidence of age by persons between 18 and 21 years.
34A.—(1) The holder of a licence of any licensed premises shall not allow a person who is aged at least 18 years but under the age of 21 years to be in the bar of those premises between 9.00 p.m. and 10.30 a.m. on the following day (12.30 p.m. if the following day is a Sunday) if the person does not produce an age document to the holder.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section ‘age document’ means a document containing a photograph of the person in respect of whom it was issued and information that enables the age of the person to be determined and being one of the following documents relating to a person referred to in that subsection:

(a) an age card referred to in section 40 of this Act,

(b) a passport,

(c) an identity card issued by a member state of the European Communities,

(d) a driver licence, or

(e) a document issued by a body, and in a form, prescribed by regulations made by the Minister.

.

Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0031/sec0015.html#partiii-sec15

tallniamh

Something very similar happened to me in Tesco in Tallaght last night. I went in to get a few things and picked up some alcohol with it. I'm 26, don't look younger than I'd say 24 maybe (unfortunately!!) and haven't been asked for any ID in years. Went to the checkout - the girl scanned the stuff though and asked me for ID. I was a bit surprised but took out my driving licience (I don't carry around a passport and don't have a garda ID). She didn't even look at it and said "sorry, passport or garda id only". I told her I didn't have any but that I was 26 and she said she would ask the supervisor. At this stage there was a queue behind me and the guy behind was laughing and saying I should take it as a compliment - I was laughing along as well.
The supervisor came over and looked at my drivers licience and said "oh I know that you're 26 but I can't accept this ID"??!!! And that if a manager came out he would say the same thing (I hadn't asked to see a manager). So as far as she was concerned, I was over the legal age, had a usually valid form of ID (in 99% of places) but still wouldn't serve me. I was a bit annoyed but just said grand, I'll get it somewhere else. So I paid for the other items, was a little embarrassed but didn't kick up a fuss or anything.
Then, the guy behind me asked the girl at the checkout if he could buy it for me. She agreed??!! So she scanned in the alcohol, watched as I handed him the money, he handed her the money and she watched as I took the alcohol, put it into my bags and walked out....!!
Now if they had have really believed that I was underage (or if indeed I was), then how could they have done that?? That would have been completely illegal surely??
Seems to me to be a case of crazy company policy, staff not being trained properly and also a bit of a lack of discretion and cop on amongst the supervisors.....
Don't get me wrong - I wasn't really that annoyed about having been refused, just surprised, but to then let someone else buy the alcohol for me??

Shelflife

Its not illegal , tesco can decide that as company policy they will only sell drink to customers in blue shirts, not a good policy but its up to them.

in the same way they can decide what forms of id they will accept as company policy.

cgarvey

angelfire9 wrote: »

Think this might be kind illegal:

Ref: Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003, Section 15:

Excellent, someone who has done some of their homework, thank you!

However, in that case, that is merely a list of acceptable IDs, and does not, in any way, mean that you have to accept one of them.

Loosely translated, a publican can go to court and say that dude was 19 according to his driving license (where as he wouldn't have much of a case if he said College ID or Youth Club card). However, he could equally take the stance that Garda IDs are too easy to fake, he can't afford (or be arsed) to train his staff and purchase technology to tell if they are fake or not, so he has a blanket ban. Perfectly legal, in my opinion (and I'm no solicitor!).

Shelflife

Tall niamh they have effectively shot themselves in the foot there because they ebasicallt said that we dont believe that you are over age, but by knowling allowing someone else to buy you drink then they are still breaking the law (if you were actually underage that is).

totally stupid on their part , fwiw i would have left all my groceries there and shopped elsewhere.

its a totally stupid inhouse regulation.

ejmaztec

Shelflife wrote: »

Tall niamh they have effectively shot themselves in the foot there because they ebasicallt said that we dont believe that you are over age, but by knowling allowing someone else to buy you drink then they are still breaking the law (if you were actually underage that is).

totally stupid on their part , fwiw i would have left all my groceries there and shopped elsewhere.

its a totally stupid inhouse regulation.

Like in an independent local shop?

Shelflife

But of course , where you will be treated like royalty and with oooddles of common sense.

ejmaztec

Shelflife wrote: »

But of course , where you will be treated like royalty and with oooddles of common sense.

:pac::D:P

they rip the bottom of the receipt as they need the code off the bottom for their records, however, they are supposed to write this code down because they'll need it if she goes back to get a refund on something else on same receipt. With regards to scribbling out the item, that is so that she doesn't try to use the receipt again to get a refund on same type of product.

B*stards. Report them.

angelfire9

cgarvey wrote: »

Excellent, someone who has done some of their homework, thank you!

However, in that case, that is merely a list of acceptable IDs, and does not, in any way, mean that you have to accept one of them.

Loosely translated, a publican can go to court and say that dude was 19 according to his driving license (where as he wouldn't have much of a case if he said College ID or Youth Club card). However, he could equally take the stance that Garda IDs are too easy to fake, he can't afford (or be arsed) to train his staff and purchase technology to tell if they are fake or not, so he has a blanket ban. Perfectly legal, in my opinion (and I'm no solicitor!).

I would beg to differ:
According to the LAW :

Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 wrote:

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section ‘age document’ means a document containing a photograph of the person in respect of whom it was issued and information that enables the age of the person to be determined and being one of the following documents relating to a person referred to in that subsection:

(a) an age card referred to in section 40 of this Act,

(b) a passport,

(c) an identity card issued by a member state of the European Communities,

(d) a driver licence, or

(e) a document issued by a body, and in a form, prescribed by regulations made by the Minister.

Therefore, by law an age card, a passport an EU ID Card a driver's licence or other government approved ID are acceptable forms of Identification for the purpose of the Intoxicating Liquor Act
Personally i'd have argued the toss with them over it, BECAUSE a driving licence is a legally recognised form of identification in accordance with the ILA 2003 and Tesco have no right to refuse that ID Irish Law supersedes company policy!

craichoe

angelfire9 wrote: »

I would beg to differ:
According to the LAW :



Therefore, by law an age card, a passport an EU ID Card a driver's licence or other government approved ID are acceptable forms of Identification for the purpose of the Intoxicating Liquor Act
Personally i'd have argued the toss with them over it, BECAUSE a driving licence is a legally recognised form of identification in accordance with the ILA 2003 and Tesco have no right to refuse that ID Irish Law supersedes company policy!

Regardless .. again it doesnt matter .. once money was exchanged the transaction was complete, the goods were hers.

If indeed she was underage the shop would already be liable for a fine regardless of the refund as they would have already been sold to a minor.

cgarvey

angelfire9 wrote: »

Tesco have no right to refuse that ID Irish Law supersedes company policy!

Of course the law supersedes co. policy, but nowhere in any liquor licensing, that I have read, is there a requirement to accept any of the listed IDs. There is a requirement that persons, under certain criteria, must have one of the listed forms of ID, but not that they must be all accepted. It's an interpretation that's in widespread use (not just Tesco).

Anyway, I've argued the point enough, and dragged this off-topic enough, so I'll leave it at that. You're, of course, free to have your own interpretation and I appreciate the effort you went to to provide the related laws you're referencing (as against the earlier posters).

On topic, Tesco had no right to confiscate the booze. End of. There's no other interpretation of that!

Solair

They did this to me once too, I was 3/4 way through a very large trolley of groceries.

I presented a driving licence (I'm in my late 20s and DO NOT look <18). She refused it, so I simply abandoned the huge trolly load of groceries and walked out.

Unfortunately, I operate an official policy of not dealing with retailers who try to publicly humiliate me.

shellyboo

Solair wrote: »

They did this to me once too, I was 3/4 way through a very large trolley of groceries.

I presented a driving licence (I'm in my late 20s and DO NOT look <18). She refused it, so I simply abandoned the huge trolly load of groceries and walked out.

Unfortunately, I operate an official policy of not dealing with retailers who try to publicly humiliate me.

I'd have done the same.