Government acts after 3 months over dioxins in pork and then after it is found in UK

Mr.Micro

Why has it taken 3 months of exposure to all consumers of dioxin ridden pork and pork products beore anything was done and then it does not appear to have been detected here first, this from the BBC....

The presence of the dioxin polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) - a substance banned in the Irish Republic since the 1970s - in animal feed and pork samples was confirmed on Saturday afternoon in test results from a UK laboratory.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7769391.stm

Do we have a food watchdog? To me this is an appalling failure by the authorities ( or lack of them ) in Ireland in 2008.

mikemac

Most of what is produced in Ireland is exported. And this is a disaster for the industry and its reputation which may take years to recover.
A lot of people will lose their jobs over this as sales collapse.

Food Safety Authority Ireland is the authority here.
And I think you knew this already.......
Dept of Agriculture have inspectors doing site visits also

Mr.Micro

micmclo wrote: »

Most of what is produced in Ireland is exported. And this is a disaster for the industry and its reputation which may take years to recover.
A lot of people will lose their jobs over this as sales collapse.

Food Safety Authority Ireland is the authority here.
And I think you knew this already.......
Dept of Agriculture have inspectors doing site visits also

My worry is that it was not picked up here first, and why not? It looks like people supposed to be doing the job were asleep including the Dept of agriculture. Jobs are one thing, what about the harm to childrens and all others health? It is unacceptable and incompetent.

Moriarty

From what I gather it was detected here first with a number of farms put under restriction on wednesday, but they had to send samples to a lab in the UK for confirmation.

It's another story on whether we should have a lab here that's capable of performing this sort of analysis, or whether the lab in the UK is highly specialised in this area for one reason or another.

P. Breathnach

Mr.Micro wrote: »

My worry is that it was not picked up here first, and why not? It looks like people supposed to be doing the job were asleep including the Dept of agriculture. Jobs are one thing, what about the harm to childrens and all others health? It is unacceptable and incompetent.

It was picked up here first. By the people who are supposed to be doing the job. They use a UK laboratory for tests.

Mr.Micro

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It was picked up here first. By the people who are supposed to be doing the job. They use a UK laboratory for tests.

Why did it take 3 months then? By this time tonnes of pork sold and exported. Why test or check after 3 months. It does not wash. Its not good enough. Even if it was detected here first it seems a very slow process of wait and see. It does not take much in scientific terms to detect dioxins.

P. Breathnach

Who says that it took three months? The same people who say that it was detected in the UK?

oscarBravo

I haven't seen that three months figure anywhere else.

I had bought a leg of pork yesterday in Tesco, was looking forward to roasting it today but brought it back for a refund instead. I probably would have cheerfully eaten it - I think the risk involved in things like this is overhyped - but her indoors wouldn't have eaten it, so meh.

grizzly

http://www.videojug.com/interview/dioxin-and-pcbs-explained

This will give people an idea of how dangerous PCBs are. The effects won't show up for years to come in the form an increase to cancer rates. It's especially harmful to pregnant women.

It's very sad that we could not protect against this. It's something I'd expect from a third world country that has limited resources and scientific expertise to safeguard it population from toxins their food.

Mr.Micro

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Who says that it took three months? The same people who say that it was detected in the UK?

Alert Notification: 2008.09

06 December 2008

Category I: For action

Country of Origin: Ireland

Product: Pork & Bacon Products

Batch Code: Produced from animals slaughtered in Ireland from September 1st 2008
Message

The Government today announced that laboratory results of animal feed and pork fat samples obtained this afternoon by the Food Safety Authority of Ireland (FSAI) confirmed the presence of dioxins. The levels were found to be in breach of Commission Regulation (EC) No 1881/2006 setting maximum levels for certain contaminants in foodstuffs.

Consequently, the FSAI is requiring the food industry to recall from the market all Irish pork products produced from pigs slaughtered in Ireland from 1st September 2008. This recall involves retailers, the hospitality sector and the Irish pig processing sector.

Investigations involving the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (DAFF) and the FSAI are continuing to determine the extent of the contamination and to identify the processors and products involved.
Nature of danger

http://www.fsai.ie/alerts/fa/fa_08/fs20081206.asp

1st September 2008, so somebody suspected that the feed was wrong or whatever yet it takes 3 months to stop all products and recall. Not acceptable in 2008 in an EU country. Yes and it was detected in the UK, and only then was the pork recalled. Its about time we have our own services to test for toxins and other substances instead of having to rely on other countries to do our work for us. If the feed was suspected at the start, the pork should have been recalled as a precaution and not when the horse has bolted, money matters more than people obviously.

The Raven.

grizzly wrote: »

http://www.videojug.com/interview/dioxin-and-pcbs-explained

This will give people an idea of how dangerous PCBs are. The effects won't show up for years to come in the form an increase to cancer rates. It's especially harmful to pregnant women.

It's very sad that we could not protect against this. It's something I'd expect from a third world country that has limited resources and scientific expertise to safeguard it population from toxins their food.

:eek::eek::eek:!!!

And there I was thinking it was safe to eat mostly fish and vegetables. Is smoked fish or ham worse?

According to the Times:

The contamination first came to light last Monday but was only confirmed by Government officials today.

A whole week ago, but I suppose they had to be certain before confirming it.

The Food Safety Authority of Ireland made the announcement shortly before 8pm after pig meat on a number of farms was found to have had between 80 and 200 times more dioxins that the recognised safety limit.

That seems an incredibly high amount of dioxins. How on earth could such an amount have gotten in to the animal feed from the one source? So far, I haven’t seen any information on this, but could have missed it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1206/breaking44.htm

ejmaztec

I wouldn't be surprised were all overseas customers to refuse to accept any Irish produce as a result of this. A total disaster all round. Didn't it take years for Iran to accept Irish beef again?

I hope they don't drag out any investigation in the hope that it will all fade away.

P. Breathnach

Mr.Micro wrote: »

1st September 2008, so somebody suspected that the feed was wrong or whatever yet it takes 3 months to stop all products and recall.

Nowhere is there any indication that anybody thought, or had reason to think, that there was anything wrong at that time. All that we know is that there is something wrong currently.

Villain

What are the regulations on traceability of pork? i.e. are they the same as beef?

I really can't understand how they have had to recall all products if only 8 farms from 400 approx have been affected, surely if traceability was good enough they could control the recall?

Mr.Micro

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Nowhere is there any indication that anybody thought, or had reason to think, that there was anything wrong at that time. All that we know is that there is something wrong currently.

WRONG, according to RTE news it was the Italians who noticed for months( obviously since sept 08) that there was something wrong with the fat in the Irish pork and asked the authorities to check here and if they had confidence in the systems and checks. It was only last monday that the dept did something it appears. It is looking like the authorities just sat on their hands hoping it would go away despite being notified that there were problems with the pork fat, and only acted when forced. I would like to know how such meat passed any inspection at the time of production if the pork fat was wrong, thus indicating that there was a major problem?

Moriarty

Mr. Micro, you're basing an argument on a lot of what are - at present - still rumours. Let's see what comes out over the next day or two on who knew what when. On the face of it at the moment, I don't see anything the government or public services could have done better.. first alert apparently on Monday, traced back and samples sent for analysis by wednesday/thursday, results a day later and then a public announcement of exactly what the problem is.

I've no idea on how long it takes for pigs to go from being on the farm to being bought by me in their various parts, no idea what the story is with dioxin/other tests on foods in general and no idea how we differ from other countries. I'm sure all of this will come out in the wash in the next few days however, and then we can make an informed decision on whether anyone dropped the ball or not.

lostexpectation

you think the gov will tell us the truth?

P. Breathnach

lostexpectation wrote: »

you think the gov will tell us the truth?

Yes (for a broad definition of "gov"). So far, the FSA have been quite forthcoming.

GuanYin

lostexpectation wrote: »

you think the gov will tell us the truth?

You make it sound like government are one Giant body that tracks and knows what each limb is doing.

I'm pretty sure your Food Safety branch will be acting both independently and within the guidelines of international ethics boards when it comes to informing the public of health risks.

Firetrap

It does bring into question yet again the farming practices used for rearing pigs and poultry. There's a race to the bottom when it comes to production costs. Interesting too that nobody's come out and said "it's safe to keep eating organic pork".

Either way, it's a massive blow for the Irish pork industry. All you have to do is walk into a supermarket today and look at all the empty fridge space to see how much pork we eat.

The FSA did the right thing by pulling everything off the shelves straight away. I presume they learned lessons from the controversy the other week with the bottled water.

muckety

It seems only a minority of the farms using the contaminated feed were pig farms, so why is it only pork products that have been removed from sale? Would it be anything to do with the strength of the beef industry?

And wasn't it the FSA that were responsible for the lack of information on the source of Salmonella from an Irish meat factory earlier this year ? It doesn't instill confidence!

gandalf

This should cost the jobs of the Minister for Agriculture, The top ranking Civil Servant in the Dept, The head of the FSA and anyone else who are supposed to be responsible for these areas. Until it does then mess ups like this one will continue. Another example of no accountability with government and their organs within the state.

P. Breathnach

gandalf wrote: »

This should cost the jobs of the Minister for Agriculture, The top ranking Civil Servant in the Dept, The head of the FSA and anyone else who are supposed to be responsible for these areas.

That is an extraordinary suggestion. There was a problem; the FSAI became aware of it; they checked things out and confirmed things; they, along with politicians and other public servants, told us about it, and gave advice on what to do.

What should they have differently to save their jobs?

It is odd that people seem to think it more appropriate to punish those who are reporting the problem rather than those who caused it.

Vegeta

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It is odd that people seem to think it more appropriate to punish those who are reporting the problem rather than those who caused it.

Its odd that you seem to think they are mutually exclusive. Is their job not to report AND monitor?

gandalf

Well if it is true that they knew there was a problem for 3 months then they should have acted on it immediately.

This issue has apparently cost 100 Million Euro and god knows what the cost will be for the damage that it causes to our pork industry worldwide (and other agricultural based industries). If they are responsible for these areas and there have been failures they need to go. Anything else is a cop out. As you go down the chain you remove those who also have been involved and if it becomes apparent that some have consciously allowed or carried out the poisoning they should be prosecuted and jailed.

I suppose it all depends on whether you want standards in public office/service or accountability? If you are happy with the status quo then I suppose everything is hunky dory, sure the PAYE worker will pick up the tab as normal.

Moriarty

gandalf wrote: »

I suppose it all depends on whether you want standards in public office/service or accountability?

.. or whether you want to have hysterical reactions to unconfirmed rumours on a still-developing situation to sate your political beliefs. You know, whichever.

Vegeta

Moriarty wrote: »

.. or whether you want to have hysterical reactions to unconfirmed rumours on a still-developing situation to sate your political beliefs. You know, whichever.

Or you know, you could quote where gandalf said

gandalf wrote: »

If they are responsible for these areas

Which implies that we reserve judgement until the facts are known.

jmayo

gandalf wrote: »

Well if it is true that they knew there was a problem for 3 months then they should have acted on it immediately.

This issue has apparently cost 100 Million Euro and god knows what the cost will be for the damage that it causes to our pork industry worldwide (and other agricultural based industries). If they are responsible for these areas and there have been failures they need to go. Anything else is a cop out. As you go down the chain you remove those who also have been involved and if it becomes apparent that some have consciously allowed or carried out the poisoning they should be prosecuted and jailed.

I suppose it all depends on whether you want standards in public office/service or accountability? If you are happy with the status quo then I suppose everything is hunky dory, sure the PAYE worker will pick up the tab as normal.

Yes if there are failures then heads should roll.
Also if it is found that the feed producer knowlingly let feed onto the market that was contaminated then their company should be heavily fined and removed as supplier forever.

The government probably wanted to avoid a situation similar to the one that happened in Belgium a few years ago where the government affectively tried to sweep a problem under the carpet.
Thus they have a recall of everything.

Some people here are getting carried away, the number of farms and thus animals affected appears quiet small at the moment.
The level of exposure also apepars to be quiet small.
Also who here smokes may I ask, becuase if you do then you have a much bigger problem than this.

PS Gandalf people working in bacon factories also are PAYE workers, the pig farmers who are relying on the Christmas market to stay afloat, who may now have to slaughter all their animals also pay tax I bet, so do their workers.
There will be no winners out of this situation.

As of now we do not know if it wreckless behaviour or just an accident that caused this and until we know we can't hang anyone out to dry.

P. Breathnach

gandalf wrote: »

Well if it is true that they knew there was a problem for 3 months then they should have acted on it immediately.

They didn't know.

It's a good idea to get your facts right before you call for people to lose their jobs.

gandalf

P. Breathnach wrote: »

They didn't know.

It's a good idea to get your facts right before you call for people to lose their jobs.

I'm sorry but reports out there suggest that the Italian, French and Belgian authorities detected higher levels of dioxins last September. When we have FOUR different organisations that are supposed to be responsible for food safety. How come foreign organisations were detecting this before we were as far back as September. Given the importance of this sector to our economy I would have expected that we would have the capacity and ability to detect this.

Again given the scale of this disaster in any other country the Minister responsible would have done the honourable thing and resigned. That's one thing you can never accuse a FF lead Government of.

gandalf

jmayo wrote: »

PS Gandalf people working in bacon factories also are PAYE workers, the pig farmers who are relying on the Christmas market to stay afloat, who may now have to slaughter all their animals also pay tax I bet, so do their workers.
There will be no winners out of this situation.

As of now we do not know if it wreckless behaviour or just an accident that caused this and until we know we can't hang anyone out to dry.

Oh I am well aware of that, given especially that workers have been laid off already at Rosderra Meats in Edenderry, Roscrea, Clara, Jamestown and Stradone.

Given this sector is so important to the country and given the amount of monies paid over including 12 million last year for a Food Testing Laboratory in Backweston I would have assumed we would be capable to detect when a major problem like this became apparent rather that wait 3 months after other countries detected anomalies in food stuffs provided by us?