The Minister strikes back

dresden8

In yesteryear, when crimes were committed by criminals using firearms, they used sawn-off shotguns. The advent and availability of the handgun in this country has made matters more difficult for the Garda and has reduced the number of sawn-off shotguns used in robberies.

Lol.

What is the Minister saying here, he's quite happy for criminals to use sawn-off shotguns, but pistols are a step too far?

Pistols today, shotguns tomorrow.

Rew

I would consider a sawn-off shotgun to me more leathal when used by a criminal then a pistol of any caliber.

dresden8

Rew wrote: »

I would consider a sawn-off shotgun to me more leathal when used by a criminal then a pistol of any caliber.

Rew, are you letting the facts get in the way of the Minister's crusade?

bigred

Rew wrote: »

I would consider a sawn-off shotgun to me more leathal when used by a criminal then a pistol of any caliber.

You can make quite a big hole in something with a shotty from a few yards. It'll cut a 4inch fencing stake in half no bother (ah, a wasted youth!!). Doubt von-Glock will do that.

fishfoodie

Sparks wrote: »

I think we need to nail down the supporting paperwork for the detail that those 27 stolen handguns were reported stolen in 2003 when none were legally licenced and get that fact out there.

Off the top of my head, I think I remember that the museum in Kilmainham Gaol got robbed in this time frame & some de-activated (I Assume) guns were stolen*.

I wonder if it could be incidents like this that are being included in the figures ?

* - The reason I noted it at the time, was that a Mauser my father handed was one of the weapons stolen & I don't think it was ever recovered.

sfakiaman

I notice Ahern mentions the Donegal judgement in his replies to the Dail. Has no one asked him how sucessive ministers for justice (FF & PD) have allowed the situation to arise where a judge can describe the area between Donegal and Cork as being too hostile to drive through with a firearm.

Following this logic will he try to ban the ownership of cars in areas known to be prone to car theft.

Fair play to Charlie Flanagan, and others who are taking a commonsense view.

Red Renard

sfakiaman wrote: »

I notice Ahern mentions the Donegal judgement in his replies to the Dail. Has no one asked him how sucessive ministers for justice (FF & PD) have allowed the situation to arise where a judge can describe the area between Donegal and Cork as being too hostile to drive through with a firearm.

Following this logic will he try to ban the ownership of cars in areas known to be prone to car theft.

Fair play to Charlie Flanagan, and others who are taking a commonsense view.

Any of the Independents who support the government be of any use.

macnas

Red Renard wrote: »

Any of the Independents who support the government be of any use.

I think his son is a deer hunter????

Grizzly 45

He certainly didn't let the Minister off the hook on that issue and had him on the back foot a couple of times.

But I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him either!He is a politican,worse he is an Irish politican.Worst of all he is an Irish politican in opposition with the sniff of a general election and a cause.
Lets not forget WHO started all this nonsense off in the first place.Him and two other of his party.It is a handy stick for him now to be seen "supporting" legal gun owners and to bash the opposition with it.. Lepoards and their spots..:(

I love 'the other side' bit. I think somebody else posited the view that the Minister may be afraid of vigilantism in the light of Garda failure to reduce gun crime. This may be the case indeed, seeing as he keeps mentioning the US (in a Hollywood context it seems).

He would indeed want to knock off the ol Death Wish videos:rolleyes:,and come down to Earth abit.Or actually maybe take a trip to the USA and actually find out some facts about the place and gun ownership and control??Or maybe try comparing like and like???Comparing the USA to Ireland is like comparing a dinosaur to a mouse in size.On average 4000 handguns are transferred a DAY in ownership status.Double the Irish and Uk[ "handgun" yokes that they have over there]ownership figures.So comparing anything with the US is irrevelant.

One would wonder is that the reason for the end of IPSC shooting?

Got it in one! We were supposedly training bodygaurds or mercenaries or Al Quieda or whatever,according to the C4 division of DOJ,who knew all about IPSC shooting from looking at the websites.:rolleyes:
[So if you ever wanted to be a brain surgeon folks,check up some websites on brain surgery and apply immediately at the Blackrock Clinic.According to the DOJ logic thats all you need to know everything about a paticular shooting sport.:(:mad:]
No hard proof was or has been offerd of these allegations,more of the sort of "Well a man down the pub ,who knows a bloke who did it" type proof.
Nor ASFIKhas this been ever been investigated by the Gardai.
Odd if there is such a crime happening,as it is an offence under the offences against the State1939 act,which prohibits,drilling,training or instructing of a body of people in the use of arms.Or to have ,maintain,or command of such a body.

Also wonderiing what websites he was looking at

]

Boards.ie of course.Where else would they get up to date info on what we are thinking.
So hi everyone in C4 DOJ.;)

fishfoodie

macnas wrote: »

I think his son is a deer hunter????

That's Bob NeDiros Dad, no way :eek:

pullandbang

Just a tit bit from Sparks Private Notice Questions post earlier.

The Bill will also contain measures which the Garda Commissioner has suggested for tightening up the law to deal with knives.

Can we anticipate a ban on hand - knives?
Are all chefs, butchers, cooks, etc. etc. going to have to keep their equipment in safes? Will there be a crackdown on "knife culture"?

Would this be popular with the public?

Would it win votes for my party?????

Sparks

macnas wrote: »

I think his son is a deer hunter????

Oh god. I'm from Kerry myself, and I'd hand over all my firearms before depending on his lot.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him either!He is a politican,worse he is an Irish politican.Worst of all he is an Irish politican in opposition with the sniff of a general election and a cause.

Got any alternatives that don't involve a military coup and some jumped-up little fecker in jodhpurs?

It's the nature of the business Grizzly. You're not being asked to trust the guy, just to work with him. Seriously, why does everything have to be so damn first-order? Either we love and trust and would follow him unto death; or he's evil and bad and we should destroy him? Feck's sake man, if that's how you think, do you use a 12-gauge to change channels on the telly?

Got it in one! We were supposedly training bodygaurds or mercenaries or Al Quieda or whatever,according to the C4 division of DOJ,who knew all about IPSC shooting from looking at the websites.:rolleyes:

Pity that all the information on IPSC shooting wasn't put up on the websites so. Though from what little I've heard of it, it wasn't the official IPSC matches that started that trend, but the "jaysus lads, did you hear about X" stories that were flying all over the place. Irony really, some were saying that the chat on boards would cause problems, but all the problems were coming from the stuff that wasn't on boards, where there was no moderation, no calls for supporting facts, and it was all gossip down the pub. The "piss up a rope" story, the "toboggan" story, the "bicycle" story, the story of folks walking round with handguns on O'Connell street (or Grafton street, or any of a number of others - it changed every time I heard the same story). And on and on and on. Stuff that we'd never let up on here because it's rubbish, but there's no moderators in a pub, right?
*sigh*
It's all just so damn annoying. I wanted to do some .32 ISSF shooting at some point, but didn't have the budget or time to do so, and now it looks like that won't happen unless I go up north, all because of that ****e. Gah.

Boards.ie of course.Where else would they get up to date info on what we are thinking. So hi everyone in C4 DOJ.;)

I did point out several months ago that C4 and the DoJ do have people whose job includes reading here daily...

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

It's all just so damn annoying. I wanted to do some .32 ISSF shooting at some point, but didn't have the budget or time to do so, and now it looks like that won't happen unless I go up north, all because of that ****e.

I'm in the same boat. Still half considering buying an air pistol and training with it, was planning to start that way anyway, but think I'll wait to see how ridiculous even that gets before I consider applying. It really is a big scuttery mess at the moment.

Bananaman

The "piss up a rope" story, the "toboggan" story, the "bicycle" story, the story of folks walking round with handguns on O'Connell street (or Grafton street, or any of a number of others - it changed every time I heard the same story). And on and on and on.

Folks - I shoot IPSC Pistol - in fact I think I have attended every possible match in Ireland since I got my competition license almost two years ago - and I have never heard any of these stories.

Rather than fuel some flames in the Department by giving them soundbites to quote (they love quoting soundbites from boards) -

I would ask that people PM me, in confidence,

- with details of EVERY story you have heard of what has gone on in relation to IPSC shooting - it is important to know where it supposedly took place also.

I can PM you my email address in response if you wish to pass it on to others to allow them to let me know what they have heard also.

I realise you may not know who I am and may be wary of providing me with this information but if you PM me I will provide you with my details and then you can decide.

What I am interested in is compiling these, attempting to ascertain if in fact they happened, which I seriously doubt and if possible to provide evidence that in fact they did not.

This could be important in justifying our position as responsible firearms owners - not just IPSC but ALL firearms owners

B'Man

lostexpectation

rrpc wrote: »

+1

I love 'the other side' bit. I think somebody else posited the view that the Minister may be afraid of vigilantism in the light of Garda failure to reduce gun crime. This may be the case indeed, seeing as he keeps mentioning the US (in a Hollywood context it seems).

good that somebody else thinks so, i vaguely remember him saying something about this before, i think 'we' got distracted by presuming he was only interested legal guns used in crimes.


the gun culture he's talking about is not some hip-hop obsessed drug running gang kids shooting each other up, but irish folk sitting on the porch talking pot shots at nick knockers or shooting the neighbours for cutting down their trees.

Grizzly 45

[

quote=Sparks;58228791]Got any alternatives that don't involve a military coup and some jumped-up little fecker in jodhpurs?

Sure,how about a single issue canditate in the areas where the gunownership is strong and the FF/FG parties are weak?? Has worked before.

It's the nature of the business Grizzly. You're not being asked to trust the guy, just to work with him. Seriously, why does everything have to be so damn first-order? Either we love and trust and would follow him unto death; or he's evil and bad and we should destroy him? Feck's sake man, if that's how you think, do you use a 12-gauge to change channels on the telly?

Thats exactly the problem.How can you work with somone who started out trying to do us in and then is now "working" for us????You know yourself that the moment FG are in .It will be a Thanks fools...Here are the new gun laws to dump all over you.With friends like that who needs enemies??:(.I do realise that nothing is first order in politics.But somone who is blowing one way and back again a day other is just being an opportunist.
Changing the TV channels..Got to have a TV first.I shot mine with a 12 ga along time ago.Nothing but crap on it!:P:pac:


Pity that all the information on IPSC shooting wasn't put up on the websites so.

Though from what little I've heard of it, it wasn't the official IPSC matches that started that trend, but the "jaysus lads, did you hear about X" stories that were flying all over the place. Irony really, some were saying that the chat on boards would cause problems, but all the problems were coming from the stuff that wasn't on boards, where there was no moderation, no calls for supporting facts, and it was all gossip down the pub. The "piss up a rope" story, the "toboggan" story, the "bicycle" story, the story of folks walking round with handguns on O'Connell street (or Grafton street, or any of a number of others - it changed every time I heard the same story). And on and on and on

.

So in other words done in on rumour, heresay ,urban myths,speculation and pub stories???

Rew

Why have we heard nothing from the FCP or have I missed something?

bunny shooter

Rew wrote: »

Why have we heard nothing from the FCP or have I missed something?

'Cause we don't need to know they are looking after us :rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

One other little ditty that might be of use somwhere taken from ISD this month.
Mr Deasy FG certainly cant go on about us breaking the law ,or being a danger .Remember a certain incident in the Dail bar when the no smoking ban came in on it's first day.????:)