[Heritage] Cavan Railway Heritage Society

lynchiered

Over the last two years I have become interested in the railway history of Co Cavan especially the Inny Junction – Cavan main line. So little is written about this branch of the rail network its history and beauty is somewhat lost in the past.

My aim is to bring like minded people together and recreate that history and beauty trough the

“Cavan Railway Heritage Society”

There is so much to be done like:
• Photograph and record surviving stations and bridges
• Survey the track bed and establish is there any remaining track
• Research locomotives and carriages that ran on the line.
• Plus loads more
.
So if you are like minded and up for the challenge please get in touch

lynchiered@yahoo.com

Using this bebo page while my web page is been put together,

www.bebo.com/innyjunction

Judgement Day

Interesting project. Yes, the Cavan line from Inny Junction is a neglected part of our railway history and it is a line that should have been rebuilt under Transport 21 rather than the ludicrous Western Rail Corridor. A whole new catchment area would have been brought back onto the national rail network but there was no pressure group in Cavan and the local politicians can't be much good either. Probably never happen now that we are back to the 1980s. Good luck.

lynchiered

Thanks for the reply and encouragement, for more info check out my bebo page, web page will follow in a few months

munchkin_utd

To be fair it was a fair old trudge from Cavan to dublin when the rail line was still there.
3 hours I believe it took.
Compare that to 1h45min on the express bus today or 2 on the normal service bus.
If it were still operating today at those speeds then you'd have the same situation as Belfast derry where the vast majority use the bus as its quicker and more frequent.

Back on topic, maybe you should contact the various local heritige groups along the line, Cavan Museum etc for more photos and information.
Also the county library may have books etc relevant to the subject. They have also every issue of the Celt back over 100 years on Microfilm so you could get a printout of the paper from the time when the line closed maybe?

Nostradamus

Judgement Day wrote: »

Interesting project. Yes, the Cavan line from Inny Junction is a neglected part of our railway history and it is a line that should have been rebuilt under Transport 21 rather than the ludicrous Western Rail Corridor. A whole new catchment area would have been brought back onto the national rail network but there was no pressure group in Cavan and the local politicians can't be much good either. Probably never happen now that we are back to the 1980s. Good luck.

Dunno about that. The line from Inny to Cavan vanished under all kinds of rivers, bogs and marshes since closing. It was basically a swamp railway for the most part. Even in the old days the axel load on trains was heavily restricted. The high-quality rail lines into Cavan town were from the Belfast direction. And the Unionists killed that off.

Having said that the Irish Government owed it to the Cavan region to keep the Inny line opened. If you look at similar situations particualry in the Balkans fallowing the break-up of the Haspbug Empire most of the new states keep often rebuilt new lines into frontier towns and regions were the mainline from Vienna, Budapest, Prague etc was chopped off.

I would call it a case of stupidity and lack of foresight rather than a hysterical title like 'Economic Vandalism'. Same as what's happening now. Irish politicians of all parties are a complete waste of space in every possible way.

munchkin_utd

Was just thinking, the old goods waggons of the railway were "recycled" round and about cavan (minus bogies and all that) as storage sheds.
That could also be something to record before they dissappear altogether.

I'll try and get at least one wagon photographed myself over the christmas break when I'm home. (I know theres others I saw about the place but I cant remember for the life of me where)

lynchiered

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Was just thinking, the old goods waggons of the railway were "recycled" round and about cavan (minus bogies and all that) as storage sheds.
That could also be something to record before they dissappear altogether.

I'll try and get at least one wagon photographed myself over the christmas break when I'm home. (I know theres others I saw about the place but I cant remember for the life of me where)

Thanks Munchkin,

I have found one of these goods waggons myself beside the crossdoney station but if you could identify more and photo them that would be super. Are you from Cavan yourself?

Regards
Paul

BrianD3

I'm nearly sure there is a wagon or two in a field beside the Finea-Castlepollard road. Might be from the Inny railway.

lynchiered

BrianD3 wrote: »

I'm nearly sure there is a wagon or two in a field beside the Finea-Castlepollard road. Might be from the Inny railway.

Cheers thanks Brian, will have a look the weekend, any change you can give me more details?

paul

BrianD3

I think the wagon is painted red and is on your right hand side as you go from Finea to Castlepollard, I'd say it's nearer to Castlepollard than it is to Finea. It has been a while since I drove that road but it shoudl be easily visible from the road.

lynchiered

BrianD3 wrote: »

I think the wagon is painted red and is on your right hand side as you go from Finea to Castlepollard, I'd say it's nearer to Castlepollard than it is to Finea. It has been a while since I drove that road but it shoudl be easily visible from the road.

Thanks for that info Brian, I found the two you were talking about plus a few more all in really good condition considering. Found one been used as a extension to a cottage really crazy stuff. Are you living in that area brian?

BrianD3

I don't live there but have travelled that road many times, am glad that you found a few wagons and that I hadn't just imagined seeing them!

lynchiered

BrianD3 wrote: »

I don't live there but have travelled that road many times, am glad that you found a few wagons and that I hadn't just imagined seeing them!

From wat i've seen you are not imagining anything they are all over the place, would love to have the space and facilities to restore one or two of them. Do you reckon any of the inny junction track is still in place?

BrianD3

I doubt there is any track left, don't know much about the Inny railway but if it's like other abandoned railways around the country the track was probably pulled up years ago. I'd say railway track would be pretty valuable in terms of its commodity/scrap value?

If you haven't done so already you could compare your map of the railway route with a modern OS map, you'll then see where roads cross the railway. I'd say there are plenty of former crossings and bridges. At each one you'd be able to look along the railway corridor and get a good idea of what's left.

BrianD3

What happened to the bebo page? I haven't be able to access it for the last couple of days.

Was looking at some modern OS maps and the "dismantled railway" from Cavan to Inny junction is clearly marked with a dashed line. I don't see any line to Ballyhaise though - wasn't Ballyhaise mentioned on the bebo page? Anyway the dismantled railway that is marked on the map crosses many roads and the river Erne, I'd say there are lots of old bridges etc. left that would make for interesting photos.

lynchiered

BrianD3 wrote: »

What happened to the bebo page? I haven't be able to access it for the last couple of days.

Was looking at some modern OS maps and the "dismantled railway" from Cavan to Inny junction is clearly marked with a dashed line. I don't see any line to Ballyhaise though - wasn't Ballyhaise mentioned on the bebo page? Anyway the dismantled railway that is marked on the map crosses many roads and the river Erne, I'd say there are lots of old bridges etc. left that would make for interesting photos.

Hi Brian,

Sorry i changed the bebo page name to "cavanrailway" its easier to find if someone is googling anything about the cavan railway, Please join my page lol...
http://www.bebo.com/cavanrailway

Thanks for that info Brian, i'll pick up a OS map shortly and get started. Any change you can lend a hand?

Ballyhaise station was just after the Cavan stop on the railway, seems strange it isnt shown on the map, It could be the case that the railway line from cavan to Ballyhaise was the only part fully dismantled?? note sure there is loads of unanswered Questions about this railway

Did you get a look at the old railway wagons i found last week around Cavan and Westmeath i have pictures of them on the Bebo page? It was really strange i found a good few around cavan but most of the wagons i found were in and about the town of Castlepollard Co Westmeath some even been used as house extensions (look at photo's).

paul

interlocked

This is a shot of Cavan station in 1963, post closure, some great photos on that site

http://erniesirishrailwayphotos.fotopic.net/p55335131.html

BrianD3

Paul, I had a look at the OS maps again and compared them with your map. It looks like the railway from Inny junction went through Butlersbridge village rather than Ballyhaise village. The line on your map is in the correct location but I think your map should say Butlersbridge where it says Ballyhaise?

The wagon photos are interesting, but I'm guessing they could have come from some a railway other than Cavan-Inny junction. Eg the Oldcastle line which is also not too far from Castlepollard.

I will be driving in the Cavan/Castepollard area after christmas and will keep an eye out for bridges, wagons etc. on or near the Inny line and have my camera ready

lynchiered

interlocked wrote: »

This is a shot of Cavan station in 1963, post closure, some great photos on that site

http://erniesirishrailwayphotos.fotopic.net/p55335131.html

Thanks for that interlock, all thats missing is the tracks, they must have taken them up strate after the closure. Did you get a look at the other photos on my bebo page of the station now? are you in the area, please join bebo page if you can if you can

Regards

Paul

lynchiered

BrianD3 wrote: »

Paul, I had a look at the OS maps again and compared them with your map. It looks like the railway from Inny junction went through Butlersbridge village rather than Ballyhaise village. The line on your map is in the correct location but I think your map should say Butlersbridge where it says Ballyhaise?

The wagon photos are interesting, but I'm guessing they could have come from some a railway other than Cavan-Inny junction. Eg the Oldcastle line which is also not too far from Castlepollard.

I will be driving in the Cavan/Castepollard area after christmas and will keep an eye out for bridges, wagons etc. on or near the Inny line and have my camera ready

Hi Brian, thanks for that i must have a scout around butlers bridge over the xmas, but im sure there is a station in Ballyhaise

http://www.eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/B/Ballyhaise/slides/Station%20building%20at%20Ballyhaise.html
see link

If your around Crossdoney in Cavan you should check out the station there totally untouched for years really wort a look.

As for Castlepollard doesn't the Inny river run trough the town and the railway pretty much followed the rivers path? Well if you find anymore wagons or even a old locomotive in a barn somewhere let me no lol lol

Regards

Paul

BrianD3

Had another look at some maps, this time old OS maps. Think I've clarified the Ballyhaise/B'Bridge situation. The line did run close to Butlersbridge village but there doesn't look to have been a station there. North of Butlersbridge was Ballyhaise Junction Station, it's marked on the old map but not on the modern one. This station is near Cloverhill rather than Ballyhaise village itself, the village is south east of this location.

Ham'nd'egger

Cavan town was actually served by two railway companies; the MGWR and the GNR. The station was built by the MGWR as part of it's plan to get into Ulster but funds and the GNR put play to that in the late 19th Century. The MGWR was absorbed into the Great Southern Railways in 1925 and hence into CIE in the late 1940s, which is about the time when they discontinued regular passenger services into Cavan on the MGWR line. The GNR maintained passenger services into Cavan until 1957, when closures of railway in the 6 counties by the Ulster Transport Authority rendered much track miles this side of the border isolated. Throughout the years, the GNR and not MGWR/CIE was considered the main railway company in Cavan as it's track linked it with Clones, Monaghan, Enniskillen, Dundalk, Belfast, Armagh and further afield. Ballyhaise was on the GNR section for the record and is slightly north of Cavan town.

The only track in situ in Cavan today is that at Kingscourt Station and a small section at Belturbet Museum; any of the old network was lifted decades ago.

bauderline

I remember seeing some narrow guage line Kilmainhamwood direction about four years ago.... not sure if I was in Cavan or Meath but it was close to K'Wood....

P.

Ham'nd'egger

bauderline wrote: »

I remember seeing some narrow guage line Kilmainhamwood direction about four years ago.... not sure if I was in Cavan or Meath but it was close to K'Wood....

P.

That is most likely the Kingscourt line you are referring to.

lynchiered

Hamndegger wrote: »

Cavan town was actually served by two railway companies; the MGWR and the GNR. The station was built by the MGWR as part of it's plan to get into Ulster but funds and the GNR put play to that in the late 19th Century. The MGWR was absorbed into the Great Southern Railways in 1925 and hence into CIE in the late 1940s, which is about the time when they discontinued regular passenger services into Cavan on the MGWR line. The GNR maintained passenger services into Cavan until 1957, when closures of railway in the 6 counties by the Ulster Transport Authoritis rendered much track miles this side of the border isolated. Throughout the years, the GNR and not MGWR/CIE was considered the main railway company in Cavan as it's track linked it with Clones, Monaghan, Enniskillen, Dundalk, Belfast, Armagh and further afield. Ballyhaise was on the GNR section for the record and is slightly north of Cavan town.

The only track in situ in Cavan today is that at Kingscourt Station and a small section at Belturbet Museum; any of the old network was lifted decades ago.

Ham'nd'egger,
thanks for that info, do you no if there is any record of the track lifting around cavan pictures etc was it systematic did cie lift it or GNR?

Regards

Paul

Ham'nd'egger

lynchiered wrote: »

Ham'nd'egger,
thanks for that info, do you no if there is any record of the track lifting around cavan pictures etc was it systematic did cie lift it or GNR?

Regards

Paul

The GNR was a distinct company from CIE/UTA (Although they both owned it) until September 30 1958, it would have been responsible for line lifting up until that date when it was formally closed. After October 1 1958, the lifting was the responsibility of either CIE or UTA depending on what side of the border the line was. Lines legally had to be left for 12 months upon closing so chances are that CIE did any lifting in Cavan, though there was one exception.

Your best source for photos/reading on this would be the IRRS, they being the guardian of railway documents and history.

lynchiered

Hamndegger wrote: »

The GNR was a distinct company from CIE/UTA (Although they both owned it) until September 30 1958, it would have been responsible for line lifting up until that date when it was formally closed. After October 1 1958, the lifting was the responsibility of either CIE or UTA depending on what side of the border the line was. Lines legally had to be left for 12 months upon closing so chances are that CIE did any lifting in Cavan, though there was one exception.

Your best source for photos/reading on this would be the IRRS, they being the guardian of railway documents and history.

Thanks for that info Ham'nd'egger,
wat was the one exception by the way?

lynchiered

BrianD3 wrote: »

Had another look at some maps, this time old OS maps. Think I've clarified the Ballyhaise/B'Bridge situation. The line did run close to Butlersbridge village but there doesn't look to have been a station there. North of Butlersbridge was Ballyhaise Junction Station, it's marked on the old map but not on the modern one. This station is near Cloverhill rather than Ballyhaise village itself, the village is south east of this location.

wats the best place to get OS maps in cavan do ya no?

Ham'nd'egger

lynchiered wrote: »

Thanks for that info Ham'nd'egger,
wat was the one exception by the way?

The exception was the Sligo, Leitrim and Northern Counties Railway; it was the last private railway in Ireland until it's closure in 1957. Part of it's line touched into Cavan through the small border town of Blacklion. The company closed in October 1957 due to the closure of the GNR's line through Enniskillen.

Ham'nd'egger

lynchiered wrote: »

wats the best place to get OS maps in cavan do ya no?

Easons or directly from the OSI. There is a map shop on Whitefriar Street.

lynchiered

Hamndegger wrote: »

Easons or directly from the OSI. There is a map shop on Whitefriar Street.

Cheers Ham'nd'egger, you seem very Knowledgeably about the Railways around cavan, have you done much research yourself?

Regards

Paul

BrianD3

Crannog bookshop also has maps. You'll need three OS maps to see the full length of the dismantled railway - the maps are OS Discovery Series No. 34, No. 27 and No. 41.

lynchiered

BrianD3 wrote: »

Crannog bookshop also has maps. You'll need three OS maps to see the full length of the dismantled railway - the maps are OS Discovery Series No. 34, No. 27 and No. 41.

Hi Brian,

Have got all three maps and there stuck together and up on the wall, spare bedroom is now the HQ of Operation Inny Junction lol.

lynchiered

BrianD3 wrote: »

Had another look at some maps, this time old OS maps. Think I've clarified the Ballyhaise/B'Bridge situation. The line did run close to Butlersbridge village but there doesn't look to have been a station there. North of Butlersbridge was Ballyhaise Junction Station, it's marked on the old map but not on the modern one. This station is near Cloverhill rather than Ballyhaise village itself, the village is south east of this location.

Did you get any photos over Christmas Brian?

Regards

Paul

Eiretrains

Interesting discussion guys. Just regarding Butlersbridge on the line. I had initially thought there was a station there too.
But when photographing the line in the area I found none, other than a level crossing.

I checked my old OS map and it too didn't mark any station, which I thought was surprising considering it passed close to village, and would have split the Cavan-Ballyhaise section neatly.

In later years there may have been a railcar stopping place or something nearby. If I have time I may upload a few photos of the area, which didn't feature on my eiretrains website!

For anyone who has not seen this website:
http://ims0.osiemaps.ie/website/publicviewer/main.aspx?id=&utype=&ecom=S1&user=
It gives a quite detailed aerial views of the whole of Ireland (except N.I).
It also has a detailed OS style map overview (the same ones you can buy in shops which I'll no longer do now!). You can easily trace now the Cavan-Kilshandra-Inny line with it.:D

Ham'nd'egger

Eiretrains wrote: »

Interesting discussion guys. Just regarding Butlersbridge on the line. I had initially thought there was a station there too.
But when photographing the line in the area I found none, other than a level crossing.

I checked my old OS map and it too didn't mark any station, which I thought was surprising considering it passed close to village, and would have split the Cavan-Ballyhaise section neatly.

In later years there may have been a railcar stopping place or something nearby. If I have time I may upload a few photos of the area, which didn't feature on my eiretrains website!

There wasn't a station in Butlersbridge as it was close to Ballyhaise and Cavan and it was literally a dot on the road back then, the area being mainly estate and hunting plains. When the line was built by the GNR, Cavan was the terminus and it was something of a mainline so there wasn't a benefit in having any smaller stops to block it up.

BrianD3

I haven't been in the area since christmas but before the break I was looking at the modern OS maps and some photos. There are several gaps in the dashed line on the map, some gaps are several hundred metres. These gaps seem to correspond to parts of the line where there is little or no trace of a railway ever having been there - no hedgerows and flat fields where the railway would have been etc.

lynchiered

Eiretrains wrote: »

Interesting discussion guys. Just regarding Butlersbridge on the line. I had initially thought there was a station there too.
But when photographing the line in the area I found none, other than a level crossing.

I checked my old OS map and it too didn't mark any station, which I thought was surprising considering it passed close to village, and would have split the Cavan-Ballyhaise section neatly.

In later years there may have been a railcar stopping place or something nearby. If I have time I may upload a few photos of the area, which didn't feature on my eiretrains website!

For anyone who has not seen this website:
http://ims0.osiemaps.ie/website/publicviewer/main.aspx?id=&utype=&ecom=S1&user=
It gives a quite detailed aerial views of the whole of Ireland (except N.I).
It also has a detailed OS style map overview (the same ones you can buy in shops which I'll no longer do now!). You can easily trace now the Cavan-Kilshandra-Inny line with it.:D

hi eiretrains would love to see those photos, cheers
paul

lynchiered

BrianD3 wrote: »

I haven't been in the area since christmas but before the break I was looking at the modern OS maps and some photos. There are several gaps in the dashed line on the map, some gaps are several hundred metres. These gaps seem to correspond to parts of the line where there is little or no trace of a railway ever having been there - no hedgerows and flat fields where the railway would have been etc.

Brian,

i totally agree there are a few areas along there line that just dont add up, from using os maps and the site eiretrains has posted this is very clear. i think the only way to sort this is walking the track bed station to station and recording everything

regards

paul

lynchiered

BrianD3 wrote: »

I'm nearly sure there is a wagon or two in a field beside the Finea-Castlepollard road. Might be from the Inny railway.

Hey Brian, was men't to put these up last week, loads more on my bebo

BrianD3

I was in Cavan today and spotted another wagon. No pics as didn't have my camera. Easy to find though - it is in the Co. Council yard around 1 mile on the Granard side of Killydoon village on the N55 road.

lynchiered

BrianD3 wrote: »

I was in Cavan today and spotted another wagon. No pics as didn't have my camera. Easy to find though - it is in the Co. Council yard around 1 mile on the Granard side of Killydoon village on the N55 road.

Thanks brian , just got a look at them this morning

munchkin_utd

whilst not being directly 100% Cavan Railway Heritige, there was "An Industrial Heritage Survey of Railways in Counties Monaghan and Louth" taken in 2007. Of course these are the same railways that ended up serving Cavan so it is of some interest.
http://www.monaghan.ie/websitev2/download/pdf/heritage/2007/RailwayReportSurveyPart1.pdf

It goes into the history and development, and closure, of the border lines of south Ulster along with a detailed survey of the Architectural Heritige still in existance in the 2 counties.

One of the more interesting chapters of the railway's history is also described in the report

During World War I, too, the fight for Irish independence had an adverse effect on railway staff and on train services. Railways throughout the country became targets for sabotage. Within the study area, the Dundalk-Enniskillen line and its branches were closed for a while from 2 November 1920 and 12 days later, a train was derailed between Smithborough and Clones.

One of the most serious incidents occurred at Faulkland Crossing, between Glaslough and Monaghan, on 23 April 1921. The 11.30pm Belfast-Cavan mail/goods train was ambushed, looted and then set alight, with the loss of 34 wagons.

The one thing that this incident shows is just how much trade was done before partition/ independence between South Ulster and Belfast.
34 goods wagons!