Should the Irish pig industry be saved, given the CO2 footprint

Carlow52

The current crisis gives an opportunity to eradicate this slurry swilling blight from the Irish landscape.
The billion euro being sought buy the processors is a enormous sum when one looks at the environmental damage caused by this industry, and would go a long way to giving rights to the most disadvantaged people in our midst who currently have no rights: there are regulations for the size of pig pens etc and no regs for how adults and kids are treated in residentilal care.

ChocolateSauce

Gotta watch out for those militant vegetarians...they'll have us importing our pigs from thousands of miles away!

SeanW

Carlow52 wrote: »

and would go a long way to giving rights to the most disadvantaged people in our midst who currently have no rights: there are regulations for the size of pig pens etc and no regs for how adults and kids are treated in residentilal care.

Eh :eek: Please explain why allowing the Irish pork industry to die would improve the treatment of people in residential care

Pork is one of the few products Ireland exports to China ... that alone would make me want to save it (almost).

robtri

Carlow 52...... what the helll is that rant all about.....
this is the green forum.... not a ranting sector..... move it along to after hours or something....

derry

WE have to export stuff to survive.CO2 emmisions issuies for pig production can be sorted out .Pollution from Pig farms can be sorted out.
Stopping pig farming because a few methods are wrong is OTT.

The might be strong case for changing the methods of pig farming to more natural methods like free range solutions like they do with chickens

Expermental free range pig farms have shown to make healthy pigs with less need for heating and antibiotics etc .Also less damage to land and less pollution issues. Best is the free range pigs like free range chickens have high omega 3 which is what humans need from meat products .Eating intensive farmed meat products like chicken cattle pigs which are low in Omega 3 tends to make us sick .

Having visited a pig farm to weld up some sections in it I saw things and now I rarely if ever eat pork as a result

I ant a vegie but I do keep farmed meat intakes lower and prefer to eat more fish

This vidio from the USA shows the truth about intensive farming methods

WARNING EXTREMLY GRUESOME VIDIO WHICH SHOWS EXTREME CRUELTY TO MANY FARM ANIMALS

http://www.chooseveg.com/meet-your-meat.asp


But the idea that we cant save the pig market worth some ~400 million a year to the Irish economy and rapidily growing is a non starter.Higher omega3 eat products which Ireland can produce more easy than jammed packed full Europe means we can charge higher prices for high quality meat products. This is a good opertunity to pressure the Industry to become less dependent on these high teck solutions which make them vunerable to these type of senarios.In the old days this mess could not have so easily happened as the system was local suppliers to local farmers and one small mistake would only effect a a few small farmers .The new systems mean that one small mistake to one big food supply source will effect a big amount of pigs from a few big farmers and then need a big recall

Derry

andrewh5

Stuff the carbon footprint! This is people's livelihoods we are talking about here. 800 laid off yesterday alone and they are not the last. There will be many more jobs lost yet as the issue has a knock on affect across the farming industry.

wolfpawnat

derry wrote: »

WE have to export stuff to survive.CO2 emmisions issuies for pig production can be sorted out .Pollution from Pig farms can be sorted out.
Stopping pig farming because a few methods are wrong is OTT.

The might be strong case for changing the methods of pig farming to more natural methods like free range solutions like they do with chickens

Expermental free range pig farms have shown to make healthy pigs with less need for heating and antibiotics etc .Also less damage to land and less pollution issues. Best is the free range pigs like free range chickens have high omega 3 which is what humans need from meat products .Eating intensive farmed meat products like chicken cattle pigs which are low in Omega 3 tends to make us sick .
Derry

Sadly pigs used for meat in Ireland are too closely bred to allow natural farming, we need to import more sows and boars to extend the blood lines, then natural pig farming can occur and we dont need to be recalling dioxin covered products.

We need our meat industry to flourish, its one of our best exports, yes it needs to be organised better on a waste management front but when you think about it there are more humans than pigs in Ireland, we give off greater CO2 amounts, do we eradicate ourselves!?!

And yes the people left go yesterday is beyond horendous, 12 weeks for their claims to be processed, how are they supposed to be able to afford xmas. I think we can officially say the economy is worse than gone to slurry!

AngryHippie

It is a Primary industry, anyway you cut it. Ireland has precious few left, But as to where a Billion Euros is gonna go.....There will be a fat arse pocket and a vague trail of footprints I'd suspect.
I do remember the 80's and 90's though, and the devastation of some of the countrys finest lakes to to effluent and slurry spills, and while the industry did work pretty hard to clean up its act, it has merely made it more mechanical and industrial than to actually change the fundamental problem of over-intensive agriculture. This needs to be tackled as the core of the issue, Throwing a billion euro cheque to a cabal of the 10 or 15 biggest pork producers and processors in the country will probably just serve to line their pockets, But then again a certain amount of it is certain to come back into government coffers in taxes and it would probably look well on the balance of payments to have some strong export commodity.
Hard to know, but I really don't trust any cartel that much, and don't kid yourself, they are just as much of a cartel as Larry and co. back in the 80's and 90's. Have a look at "Meanwhile back at the Ranch" by Fintan O'Toole for a glimpse of just how crooked amounts of money on that scale can make people. Scary ****. Imagine the reprecussions any of that kind of mallarkey would have on our delicate relationship with our EU brethren, and more to the point the ECB.
Point is moot anyway, nobody has a billion to lash out on rashers these days. Definitely not Biffo. (I think he's a fried egg and hash brown sort of dude anyway)

derry

AngryHippie wrote: »

...snip..
Point is moot anyway, nobody has a billion to lash out on rashers these days. Definitely not Biffo. (I think he's a fried egg and hash brown sort of dude anyway)

Has to the quote of the year:D

Will that be for your breakfast order your highness Biffo ,eggs sunny side up followed by 1 billion euro rashers or would 6000 on the dole be more to your taste or better still how about a polluted Ireland sambbo that kills all the agri busness from a faulty incinerator incident .:pac::pac::pac:


What we do need to say is after rescuing the pig farmers it all a waste of time and money if we start burning plastics in the waste incinerators.We only need those machines to fucH up and we spread tonnes of toxic chemicals like DiOxines all over the country side.Then the animals eat it as it gets into the food chain and we wont have any agricultural industry left.

We need to save the pigs so as to have a reason to save the humans living beside DiOxene producing waste incinerators

Got to get your priorities the right way around pigs make bacon and money.Humans only pollute

Derry

AngryHippie

To be fair to Cowen, He's in a very deep pile of sh1t, most of it is not his own doing, But he is cunning and perceptive enough to realise that he has got to structure any bail-out to favour the taxpayer in the medium to long term. Anything else will just be more beef baron Bullsh1te. As for the dole figures, well I'm not in country right now, and It's pretty hard to get any solid numbers without spending an hour wading through nonsense on the net, But I wouldn't lay all that at his doorstep either. The biggest mistake that he had any hand in was letting Harney create a medicine for profit culture and push up the cost for most punters, while creating an elite middle-managment culture that spend all their time waiting for the music to stop to see what poor chump doesn't have his/her arse covered by a chair. The old regional health board system and ward staff structures were inadequate, but it didn't take a bloody executive council earning more than most healthcare proffessionals to establish that....but I ramble.
Your four legs good two legs bad notion is all well and good in a visionary novel, but it ain't gonna put bacon on the table.

derry

Here is some links for free range pigs
these are irish


these guys are good and help to ensure pregnant Irish pigs are given some slack in intensive farming
http://www.ciwf.ie/campaigns/campaign_pigs.html

these guys practice free range pig farms

http://www.caherbegfreerangepork.ie/Frames.htm

http://www.jackmccarthy.ie/freerangepigs.htm



this one is Australia (sound seems to come and go )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nKDND9xX1Y




this one NZ
http://www.havocfarm.co.nz/


info on free range pig farming
http://books.google.ie/books?id=eQ5_UY-_MqIC&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=free+range+pig+farms&source=web&ots=UIAsnfWibl&sig=fE-bR09NdBCCcmSVoGU1y6xAJmQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result


Biffo just got the cold sholder in the EU for extra EU money to bail out the pig farmers.No difference we in Lisbon or not its the rules

I figure throw money at the problem to reform industry to a new free range pig farming grant solution and get a much higher quality product which would be less vunerable to these fucH ups .

All the data shows a virulent bug can wipe out the whole pig industry which is based on these high teck solutions.Free range pig farming is less vunerable to these issues


This articale fom food expert says in Indo says the same thing

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/push-for-cheap-food-is-ruining-quality-says-chef-1567931.html

This shows that large american pig farms are major polluters
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/20/big-factory-pig-farm.html

lot of info on organic farming all sorts and and free range pig farming
http://www.pighealth.com/News99/ORGANIC.HTM

Derry