Another way to God?

CDfm

No

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Freak out. What would you do?

Stark choice models suck.

There was a time when I coulda told you what a Kantian, Utilitarian and feminist woulda done. I tend to go with the feminists. Not bra burners but more the values informed by emotional connectedness thing. Plus they were pretty down on stark choice models.

Life is full of stark moral choices.

Me the guy has a right to life and its not our place to take it.Its that simple - its like stealing someones organs for transplant.

Its one of those cases where the rights of the few outweigh the many.Its like executing one innocent person to serve as an example. Ethics are about applying a moral principle to a difficult decision without loosing sight of the original moral principle. We can rationalise the decision but that doesnt make it right.

Would you care to have a go? What would you do - not Kant or anyone else?

Go with the feminists what would they do. If it was 1 guy and 100 women they would kill the guy.

Interestingly enough there is currently a debate whether or not women should go to jail for serious crimes started by Cherie Blair in the UK.( Syntax deliberate I would jail her)

AtomicHorror

CDfm wrote: »

Me the guy has a right to life and its not our place to take it.Its that simple - its like stealing someones organs for transplant.

Its one of those cases where the rights of the few outweigh the many.Its like executing one innocent person to serve as an example. Ethics are about applying a moral principle to a difficult decision without loosing sight of the original moral principle. We can rationalise the decision but that doesnt make it right.

Would you care to have a go?

I'm with you, at least in principle. The person's right to life is a significant consideration and is a deal breaker in your stark choice model. However if one of the people to be saved was a loved one of mine (or conversely, the person to be killed was) then my decision will be pretty warped by that. Stark choices suck. When do they ever reflect reality?

CDfm wrote: »

Go with the feminists what would they do. If it was 1 guy and 100 women they would kill the guy.

Those aren't feminists, they're the 'tards that hijacked feminism and turned it into a reactive anti-male thing.

CDfm

No

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I'm with you, at least in principle. The person's right to life is a significant consideration and is a deal breaker in your stark choice model. However if one of the people to be saved was a loved one of mine (or conversely, the person to be killed was) then my decision will be pretty warped by that. Stark choices suck. When do they ever reflect reality?



Those aren't feminists, they're the 'tards that hijacked feminism and turned it into a reactive anti-male thing.

In ethics its the exception that proves the rule.

Nonetheless thev decision should be the same.

Jehovah Witnesses and blood transplants. Bone marrow transplants. A lot of say forensic and police decisions. Safeguards in prosecutions. Euthenasia. Juries decisions without physical evidence or witneses. Tony Blairs coversion to Catholicism. I can think of lots.

wolfsbane

Not sure

AtomicHorror said:
Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfsbane
No, he picked the entirely distinctive and exclusive path. There is only one way to eternal life, the narrow way. All the others are part of the broad way that leads to destruction.

Matthew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Maybe you confuse the secondary differences among Christians - the mode of baptism, for instance - for the fundamental differences between Christianity and the other religions.

Not confusing them. Wondering if they impact on salvation in any respect.

They would have an impact on your wisdom, discernment and happiness - but not your salvation.

dlofnep

Not sure

No option for "God doesn't exist"?

sukikettle

Father I come to you through your Son Jesus just as I am.
I confess that Jesus is Lord and I belive with my heart that God raised Him from the dead.
Jesus I ask you right now to come live in me. I receive you, I repent for all my sins, I receive forgiveness. Now Jesus that you are my Lord, God and Saviour, heal me, change me, strengthen me in body, soul and spirit.
Come Lord Jesus cover me with your precious blood and fill me with your Holy Spirit. I ask you to go before me today and prepare the way in Jesus' name, I thank you Jesus. I shall follow you every day of my life.
Now Jesus you live in me and I live in you. Amen.

-Without faith it is impossible to please God- Hebrews 11 v.6

AtomicHorror

sukikettle wrote: »

Father I come to you through your Son Jesus just as I am.
I confess that Jesus is Lord and I belive with my heart that God raised Him from the dead.
Jesus I ask you right now to come live in me. I receive you, I repent for all my sins, I receive forgiveness. Now Jesus that you are my Lord, God and Saviour, heal me, change me, strengthen me in body, soul and spirit.
Come Lord Jesus cover me with your precious blood and fill me with your Holy Spirit. I ask you to go before me today and prepare the way in Jesus' name, I thank you Jesus. I shall follow you every day of my life.
Now Jesus you live in me and I live in you. Amen.

-Without faith it is impossible to please God- Hebrews 11 v.6

So, what you're saying is that if I utter this majick spell I'm a shoe-in? Then that's what I'll do.

sukikettle

Yes, I reckon you're not such a horror either Atomic and if you knew where I'd come from you'd think twice. It's not easy being a Christian and we don't all bible bash. It's a way of life and it's very normal and supernatural most of the time.

The Mad Hatter

sukikettle wrote: »

Yes

...care to elaborate? Preferably not in block caps?

PDN

AtomicHorror wrote: »

So, what you're saying is that if I utter this majick spell I'm a shoe-in? Then that's what I'll do.

No. Without repentance and faith all it amounts to is a lot of words.

CDfm

No

sukikettle wrote: »

it's very normal and supernatural most of the time.

Supernatural- this has me lost already.

AtomicHorror

PDN wrote: »

No. Without repentance and faith all it amounts to is a lot of words.

At this stage, I'm kinda surprised you don't know that I know that.

AtomicHorror

sukikettle wrote: »

Yes, I reckon you're not such a horror either Atomic and if you knew where I'd come from you'd think twice.

About what?

sukikettle wrote: »

It's not easy being a Christian and we don't all bible bash.

I know this.

sukikettle wrote: »

It's a way of life and it's very normal and supernatural most of the time.

Used to be one.

PDN

AtomicHorror wrote: »

At this stage, I'm kinda surprised you don't know that I know that.

I know. My reply was not for your benefit.

sukikettle

I'm glad I don't have your predicaments anymore guys. I believe in Him and I see miracles everyday. My life isn'y easy but I'm glad I have Him. I don't question Him-It leads to me getting offended and distancing myself from His saving grace. All I do is trust

Phototoxin

You know what the view is in Christian belief surely:

Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me".

You're right. A fine example of people voicing their opinions rather than what the Bible clearly says. What a wally!

Sure the first quote would have been written in Greek ?

sukikettle

There are several translations and they are all available. But don't you have to read a book to write a review. How many in here have actually read the bible.
Here's another astonishing fact
81% of the bible has been fulfilled.

AtomicHorror

sukikettle wrote: »

I'm glad I don't have your predicaments anymore guys. I believe in Him and I see miracles everyday. My life isn'y easy but I'm glad I have Him. I don't question Him-It leads to me getting offended and distancing myself from His saving grace. All I do is trust

So, basically you're on autopilot. That's... terrifying.

sukikettle wrote: »

There are several translations and they are all available. But don't you have to read a book to write a review. How many in here have actually read the bible.
Here's another astonishing fact
81% of the bible has been fulfilled.

Source?

sukikettle

source is the plain black and white text of the bible that spoke of things before they happened. You can access that info anywhere and I'm not on autopilot, the Lord is my pilot and I'm having an incredible journey.

AtomicHorror

sukikettle wrote: »

source is the plain black and white text of the bible that spoke of things before they happened.

Yeah, but you've put a definite figure of 81% on the number of things that have been predicted sucessfully. That suggests someone did an analysis of this. I'm asking for you to direct us to that work. Or you could justify it yourself.

sukikettle wrote: »

the Lord is my pilot and I'm having an incredible journey.

The Lord is my pilot? Sounds like a hymn title. Or a t-shirt slogan.

So I take it this means that free will is out the window? You're under the direct control of God. Still terrifying, I have to say.

sukikettle

I didn't grow up a Christian. My parents don't talk to me and I was mixed up in the occult. I found the Way very suddenly one day. It's too easy to reject God in control. it's much tougher albeit more rewarding to follow Him.I had nothing to lose and everything to gain

AtomicHorror

sukikettle wrote: »

I didn't grow up a Christian. My parents don't talk to me and I was mixed up in the occult. I found the Way very suddenly one day. It's too easy to reject God in control. it's much tougher albeit more rewarding to follow Him.I had nothing to lose and everything to gain

I'm pleased to hear that you are happier and I hope that continues to be the case. However, this does not answer my questions.

sukikettle

I have free will. I can reject Him at any second but as I grow with Him I depend on Him naturally. It's not easy hardly any of my friends believe.

sukikettle

What are your specific questions. I can only answer based on what I know to be true.If you require blood too then you need Him

AtomicHorror

sukikettle wrote: »

I have free will. I can reject Him at any second but as I grow with Him I depend on Him naturally. It's not easy hardly any of my friends believe.

Well I wasn't talking about the free will needed to reject God. That is a given.

sukikettle wrote: »

What are your specific questions. I can only answer based on what I know to be true.If you require blood too then you need Him

My specific questions are where the 81% fulfilment of the bible figure came from and whether you make your own decisions at all or simply rely on the pilot to do all of that for you.

sukikettle

The bible is the proof. It fulfilled itself 81% up to the Resurrection. Much of the bible is a fulfilling of what was foretold and recorded in the bible hundreds sometimes thousands of years earlier. You have a collection of foretelling and fulfillment not even Nostradamus could pull off. You can actually look it up wherever you want. Many sites and books and theologians state this as fact. No other religion possess such a book. The other 19% is the Book of Revelation that foretells the future.Already two thousand years have passed since the book of Jude and Revelation and we're still waiting for its fulfillment. Even the disciples thought the second coming was imminent.

sukikettle

Sadly I make my own decisions. I make wrong choices. I still drink more than I should to get past a few issues but He's very loving and gracious He's more like a dad. He lends a hand by putting someone or a situation in your way to help you out. The last thing He did was send my solicitor up to me in the street after 9 years since my house sale and return nearly 300 euros He had found belonging to me. I hadn't spoken to this solicitor since then. It was out of the blue. I thanked God but He sent me the reason quite clearly in my mind that it was mine and He wanted it returned.It wasn't a gift from Him it was just mine. One example. It's not a slavish religious domineering lifestyle

AtomicHorror

sukikettle wrote: »

The bible is the proof. It fulfilled itself 81% up to the Resurrection. Much of the bible is a fulfilling of what was foretold and recorded in the bible hundreds sometimes thousands of years earlier.

So, is that based on page numbers, amount of text... I'm kinda stuggling to understand where the number is coming from. It's very specific.

sukikettle wrote: »

You have a collection of foretelling and fulfillment not even Nostradamus could pull off. You can actually look it up wherever you want. Many sites and books and theologians state this as fact.

Okay, could you direct me to an example?

sukikettle wrote: »

No other religion possess such a book.

I'm sure the Muslims might claim that a certain % of their own book has been fulfilled. If the figure is lower, all thats says is that you guys have a 600 year head start.

sukikettle wrote: »

The other 19% is the Book of Revelation that foretells the future.Already two thousand years have passed since the book of Jude and Revelation and we're still waiting for its fulfillment.

Right so, you're just taking it as a given that everything but Revelation has been fulfilled. Well I guess that would be a pre-requisite for being Christian. I'd sure like to see the details though. I imagine there's some ambiguity in parts of it. And plenty that was never "fulfilled" so much as reported after the event. Or meant in a metaphorical or allegorical sense.

rockbeer

sukikettle wrote: »

The bible is the proof. It fulfilled itself 81% up to the Resurrection. Much of the bible is a fulfilling of what was foretold and recorded in the bible hundreds sometimes thousands of years earlier.

You have independently corroborated historical evidence in support of everything, right?

sukikettle

85 prophecies have been fulfilled to date. There are none in between unfulfilled. No other faith can claim this. It's not my claim it's fact and if you search yourself you will find this fact-I did. There are thousands of sites dedicated to this information I got mine from pastors like David Pawson and Derek Prince.But you won't because you're so earnest to get rid of the fact there might just be a God. How disturbing eh?
Where are you going after you die? Do you think decency creates a Heaven Hebrews and James says categorically otherwise. Without faith it is impossible to please Him

AtomicHorror

sukikettle wrote: »

85 prophecies have been fulfilled to date. There are none in between unfulfilled. No other faith can claim this.

Yet they do. What makes you different? Evidence? You won't give me any.

sukikettle wrote: »

It's not my claim it's fact and if you search yourself you will find this fact-I did. There are thousands of sites dedicated to this information I got mine from pastors like David Pawson and Derek Prince.

Thanks, I will look them up.

sukikettle wrote: »

But you won't because you're so earnest to get rid of the fact there might just be a God. How disturbing eh?

Why would universal love, unconditional forgiveness and everlasting life disturb us? We don't think it's true for intellectual and logical reasons, not because it's comfortable.

sukikettle wrote: »

Where are you going after you die? Do you think decency creates a Heaven Hebrews and James says categorically otherwise. Without faith it is impossible to please Him

It's not considered okay to suggest that the other party is damned when conducting a polite conversation.

sukikettle

I like you Atomic, many Christian counterparts would have called this a waste of time. Someone stepped out for me and I'm stepping out for you. I'm different because there are things I don't do anymore.Say anymore. I had a dark angry soul and now I don't. I won't be able to show you that here.That's something I know for sure. I was in a bad way and had no capacity to create the atmosphere I live in now. What more can I say? You need to read the bible, just you without talking about it to anyone until you feel compelled to. God is there in the pages and He does speak- I promise

kelly1

sukikettle wrote: »

I didn't grow up a Christian. My parents don't talk to me and I was mixed up in the occult. I found the Way very suddenly one day. It's too easy to reject God in control. it's much tougher albeit more rewarding to follow Him. I had nothing to lose and everything to gain

Hello Suki, welcome to the forum.

It would be great, if it's not too difficult for you, to give a us a testimony of how you were engaged in the occult and how it affected you and those around you and how you came to accept Jesus into your life.

Fanny Craddock started a thread called "On a lighter note". That would be a good place to post.

God bless,
Noel.

sukikettle

I was a psychic and clairvoyant, I didn't do tarot or ouija and I took no money though I was given gifts that either mysteriously vanished or caused problems just by their very presence