Students' Union Christmas Wishes Poster

Tayto2000

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Whats in a name? Does SIPTU run shops, bars, concerts, buses? In many parts of the world UCDSU would be described as a student governement

They do a lot of things, but nothing that's wildly beyond what many unions do for their members. And describing them as a government certainly doesn't give them the right to collect taxes!

A union has members, members should be free to join or not. Is it any wonder that people resent an organisation that they have been effectively forced to join and feel little affiliation with?

I would love to see someone actually pressing for the refund of their union membership from the registration fee. Big can o'worms...

Stabshauptmann

It can be hard to take a step back and look at the tecnical arrangements, but technically you dont pay SU membership.

Technically you pay the college; what they choose to do with the money has nothing to do with you. The college funds the SU. You can leave the SU - quite easily, but you are not entitled to any refund because you never paid anything.

I think though that if someone did succeed in negotiating down the admin fee, thats no guarentee you would have heard about it.

bnt

Is this thread about the posters up in the toilets at the RDS? Awful picture, looks like it was taken on a cheapo camera by someone who didn't know how to use it. They have red eye, for crying out loud, something most cameras can avoid if you just turn on "red eye reduction". :rolleyes:

Yes, it does matter. A bad picture detracts from its subject, just as poor grammar detracts from the message you're trying to deliver.

spudington16

Tayto2000 wrote: »

A union has members, members should be free to join or not. Is it any wonder that people resent an organisation that they have been effectively forced to join and feel little affiliation with?

I would love to see someone actually pressing for the refund of their union membership from the registration fee. Big can o'worms...

+1.

A union could be defined as "a number of persons, states, etc., joined or associated together for some common purpose: student union; credit union", so if students feel that their SU has lost touch with their needs or views (or they simply don't see a need for its existence), surely it should be possible to pay a (slightly) reduced registration fee to UCD at the start of each year so that no money goes directly to the SU. As previously mentioned, surely we should have the right not to join, or to disociate ourselves from, an SU.

Tayto2000

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

It can be hard to take a step back and look at the tecnical arrangements, but technically you dont pay SU membership.

Technically you pay the college; what they choose to do with the money has nothing to do with you. The college funds the SU. You can leave the SU - quite easily, but you are not entitled to any refund because you never paid anything.

I think though that if someone did succeed in negotiating down the admin fee, thats no guarentee you would have heard about it.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with spreading a bit of Christmas cheer with some posters. And this years lot have actually done a lot of good, especially lately with the shuttle buses and exam support. I'm less impressed by the time and effort wasted on stuff like the gates thing (which I still think is a non-issue, especially now it's been postponed to September so there can be no claims of bait-and-switch with the res rules).

The fact that the cash is collected as part of the registration fee is a technicality, it's still a membership fee for the union. If it's not, it shouldn't be descibed as such.

I'm sure there must be someone who has managed to get it back at some point by now but you're probably right, we wouldn't hear about it. And why would it be kept quiet do you think? Because a large number of people would follow suit?

mad lad

SU's rely on college admins for their funding. This puts them in a position were they feel that they have to embrace a 'partnership model' with the colleges. If a radical student movement ever emerged in Ireland, the SUs would simply have their funding cut off because they don't get it directly from students.

I'm not a huge fan of the way things operate here (from a completely different perspective to people whose whole belief system is generlly anti-unions) but I still wouldn't move to the Australian system of voluntary student unionism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_student_unionism

Stabshauptmann

Tayto2000 wrote: »

The fact that the cash is collected as part of the registration fee is a technicality, it's still a membership fee for the union. If it's not, it shouldn't be descibed as such.

Its not a technicality in the sense I think you're applying the word.

The money isnt being collected on behalf of the SU by the college and passed on.
eg. the su asks the college to charge each student 20quid.

The college collects what money it deems fit, and passes on what money it deems fit to the SU (unless there is a min. contribution defined somewhere in law).

this money isnt even the SU's to spend as they see fit, there is a university member of staff who signs off on spending.

The college also passes on money to societies, sports club, the orchestra etc. its their prerogative how they spend their money. I heard from a current sabbat that the funding for societies was less this year that last year, but I took it with a lot of salt. This sabbat also estimated my salary at 100k* and that bus drives should earn 70k.

And Im not sure where you saw a breakdown of what the admin fee covers, because thats something many an SU president has tried and failed to get. The estimates of the membership fee are afaik the SU funding received / number of students. But thats not to say that thats how the college worked it out (it might be).

So no, its not a membership fee. Or at the very least, you didnt pay it.

Why someone wouldnt make a big deal?
Well maybe they didnt want to rick the boat i.e. if everyone did it then the loophole would be closed
Or maybe there were special circumstances why they could do it but noone else.
Or maybe they were just a git.




*Obviously I wouldnt get out of bed for that chicken feed.

Tayto2000

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

And Im not sure where you saw a breakdown of what the admin fee covers, because thats something many an SU president has tried and failed to get.

Interesting. Maybe when the colleges are made to publish accounts it'll come out. I presume an FOI request has been tried?

Stabshauptmann

CaptainNegative wrote: »

If you have a problem with how the union operates, run in the next elections and make a difference, otherwise shut the f**k up.

That is idiotic reasoning.

There are more ways to influence the union than by running for one of the many positions. Canvassing your council rep or the sabbats is one. I know that at least 3 of the current sabbats read boards, 2 are regular enough posters here. There is a boards policy that those who hold an SU position declare that before posting on SU threads, but many ppl trying not to declare it unless spotted. Its very hard to enforce. Infact the majority of hacks read boards, and even a few staff. Just because they dont post doesnt mean they're not taking feedback on board.

Even if you held an SU position, thats no guarantee you could effect change.

There are substantial barriers to running. Time and money being the most obvious.

Its not practical to seize control of everything you dont like. I dont like the way America or Anglo Irish Bank are run, but Im not going to take them over. Are you a megalomaniac?

Stabshauptmann

Tayto2000 wrote: »

Interesting. Maybe when the colleges are made to publish accounts it'll come out. I presume an FOI request has been tried?

We know what money comes in and goes out, but how the figure for the registration fee is derived is unknown.

Im of the opinion is that they ask for as much as they can, add it to the war chest, and spend as they need to. Rather than raising money with specific needs / costs in mind.

Edit:Im far more interested in the SU's accounts tbh. All presidents love to dodge this one as long as possible and frankly I find it a disgrace there isnt a section of the website where all minutes and accounts can be easily found. Transparent me arse.

Infact what few minutes were online now return a 404. And iirc our current ents officer Gary Redmond deleted the newswire (the SU's version of boards) despite there being a mandate not to.

RIP-sanity

The_Minister wrote: »

Denied.

3. We have a Christmas break, during which time alot of people go home, and are miserable (there is normally at least one death over the break). No harm trying to cheer people up.

Agreed. And I really don't know why.

33% God

Tayto2000 wrote: »

I would love to see someone actually pressing for the refund of their union membership from the registration fee. Big can o'worms...

I'd like to see that person prove that they hadn't used any of the union's services.

RS6

33% God wrote: »

I'd like to see that person prove that they hadn't used any of the union's services.

For example?

Tayto2000

33% God wrote: »

I'd like to see that person prove that they hadn't used any of the union's services.

That's completely irrelevant, and they don't have to either. It's up to the union whether or not they want to deny their services to non members. The point here is membership and the fact that it's compulsory.

(For the record, the effective policy on this is pretty enlightened, non members aren't asked to pay extra for union services.)

RS6 wrote: »

For example?

I think 33% God has been impressed by the bananas and red bull at the RDS

Stabshauptmann

Tayto2000 wrote: »

The point here is membership and the fact that it's compulsory.

you can leave quite easily. You are not entitled to any sort of refund because you didnt pay any membership fee

Tayto2000

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

You are not entitled to any sort of refund because you didnt pay any membership fee

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Although a funny thought strikes me, how would you prove you are a member? You never sign anything and there is no record of interaction between you and the SU...

lizzyvera

There are plenty of good reasons not to like the union, the posters are a minor issue.

I wanted my 50c back for the weekend they went away and pissed in the electrics of the accommodation. I went to see the president about it. He lied to me, of course, and said it hadn't happened, although my friend witnessed it. He also said they might be starting legal proceedings against the owners of the accommodation for releasing private information about them, and against the paper for making the claims. The problem with politicians is that they won't admit when they're wrong.

You’re perfectly entitled to complain about the union- they’re your union! I often send them little abusive emails and pop in to rant and make awkward requests and ask for more condoms than any reasonable person could ever, ever use.

It's actually good fun trying to get your money's worth- apart from going to anything ents do like those awful lose-your-virginity themed nights out with a load of ugly randy weirdos who think they might. Ugh.

passive

lizzyvera wrote: »

I often send them little abusive emails and pop in to rant and make awkward requests and ask for more condoms than any reasonable person could ever, ever use..

Wow... you're so cool.

Tayto2000

lizzyvera wrote: »

I wanted my 50c back for the weekend they went away and pissed in the electrics of the accommodation. I went to see the president about it. He lied to me, of course, and said it hadn't happened, although my friend witnessed it. He also said they might be starting legal proceedings against the owners of the accommodation for releasing private information about them, and against the paper for making the claims. The problem with politicians is that they won't admit when they're wrong.

Yeah, that whole episode was pretty hilarious with the Pres denying it in the face of all the bebo pics and blogs which were hurriedly taken down as word got out...

Nothing like empty legal threats to really make yourself look ridiculous.