Smart Telecom: Fair Use Policy

rikerdonegal

Switched from Digiweb (40g/month) to Smart (unlimited) in September and it's been great. Like a breath of fresh after always having to stay within the 40gig a month limit

But, despite the claims that Smart offer unlimited bandwidth, I've been trying to find out what that really means, with regard to Fair Use Policy, etc. Problem is: I've found a few posts/articles here and elsewhere, but no specifics.

What would constitute a breach of Fair Use Policy? 40gig a week? A day? An hour?

I never looked into it before, but in the last week or so, I've probably crossed 20gig a day so now I'm wondering how long that could possibly continue.

Is there a number out there anywhere? Anyone know from experience? Cos I have looked (for the last couple of days) and all I find about Smart is good reports and people happy with this 'unlimited' package.

I'm on the Smart 6Mb package, by the way.

flamegrill

I didn't tell you this (ha ha), but I've heard stories of them calling people that do 1TB / month (yes 1000GB). If you keep it sane, below 500GB / m I'm sure they won't care ...

rikerdonegal

flamegrill wrote: »

I didn't tell you this (ha ha), but I've heard stories of them calling people that do 1TB / month (yes 1000GB). If you keep it sane, below 500GB / m I'm sure they won't care ...

:eek:

Now I just feel inadequate

(Thanks for fast reply, btw)

crawler

Hi Rikerdonegal

Firstly - thank you for choosing Smart.

On the FUP - we deliberately don't set a fixed number as we want to be as flexible as possible.

We do know how much data is used each month and we do compile a top 100 customers each month also, for each package we offer.

We then balance usage to capacity.

In order to be fair to all if someone were to consistently be at the top of the tree, we reserve the right to ask them to lower usage to be fair to all. If people continue to exceed all reasonable limits we can throttle, restrict or in extreme cases disconnect service (has happened where someone ended up as part of a intensive spamming botnet, for example)

I think it's fair to say that most people would know when they are really going over the top and don't mind slowing down as people downloading that level of data tend to be more tech focused anyway...

In short - if you are a very (very) heavy user, consider others, if we do contact you - lighten up a bit. But in general I think you will be ok

hope that helps.

rikerdonegal

crawler wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that most people would know when they are really going over the top and don't mind slowing down as people downloading that level of data tend to be more tech focused anyway...

In short - if you are a very (very) heavy user, consider others, if we do contact you - lighten up a bit. But in general I think you will be ok

hope that helps.

It sure does.

And it certainly reflects what I've read in a couple of forums/blogs this morning. And during the Summer, before I made my switch to Smart.

All worry I've accumulated over the past week is evaporating

I can't imagine I'd ever be top of the charts for downloading. But if I was asked to slow down, I'd have no problems with it. I think I have it pretty good with Smart, tbh. My current influx is mostly stuff I've saved into a text file over the past couple of years surfing with DigiWeb. My "someday I'd like to get this" file

Cabaal

crawler, thanks very much for the info on Smarts FUP.
I have to say in all my time on this forum I've never seen smart users complaining about FUP, caps with smart

jor el

Thanks to crawler, that kind of echos what Garfield Connelly said here when Smart first started up - Everything's fair use, until you start costing the company extra money.

I've never been contacted by Smart about usage, and I've never gone over 500GB. I've been fairly close to it though, so I'd say a few hundred gig would be acceptable, on the higher packages anyway. If you're only paying for 1Mbps, then obviously you may not be afforded the same allowance. I'm on 7Mbps.

Cabaal

jor el wrote: »

Thanks to crawler, that kind of echos what Garfield Connelly said here when Smart first started up - Everything's fair use, until you start costing the company extra money.

Which is pretty fair at the end of the day, lets not forgot smart like any company are in it to make money and there are limits to what a user can use as explained in the FAQ

I'd rather Smart have a policy then go out of business

crawler

Cabaal wrote: »

Which is pretty fair at the end of the day, lets not forgot smart like any company are in it to make money and there are limits to what a user can use as explained in the FAQ

I'd rather Smart have a policy then go out of business

100% correct.

Hank Scorpio

smart is easily the best isp is ireland

shame it isnt in my area ( yet )

hideous ape

Have to agree that Smart has been by far the best ISP I have used so far.

I know mates of mine have hit 300-500GB every month for their entire 12 month contract so I'd say your good.

dub45

I agree about the service itself and the staff who look after the forums are excellent too.

However and it is a big however their billing, and I mean timing issues rather than accuracy issues, and certain other relaterd matters such as referral to debt collectors deserve a lot more attention. There is no excuse for Smarts ongoing inability to get bills out on time. It detracts from an excellent product.

byte

Yeah, I had Smart for a few years when living in Letterkenny. It was fantastic. Never any problems worth worrying about.

I only dream of the day they unbundle the Donegal Town exchange! I'll be gone from UTV like a shot!

crawler

dub45 wrote: »

I agree about the service itself and the staff who look after the forums are excellent too.

However and it is a big however their billing, and I mean timing issues rather than accuracy issues, and certain other relaterd matters such as referral to debt collectors deserve a lot more attention. There is no excuse for Smarts ongoing inability to get bills out on time. It detracts from an excellent product.

thanks for the feedback dub45. Will not fall on deaf ears.

Cabaal

dub45 wrote: »

I agree about the service itself and the staff who look after the forums are excellent too.

However and it is a big however their billing, and I mean timing issues rather than accuracy issues, and certain other relaterd matters such as referral to debt collectors deserve a lot more attention. There is no excuse for Smarts ongoing inability to get bills out on time. It detracts from an excellent product.

Have to see I honestly think this is the first time I';ve heard of somebody complaining about Smarts billing, its good to know that Smart are actively taking this info on board to.

Other companys could learn from this

MunsterCycling

Cabaal wrote: »

Have to see I honestly think this is the first time I';ve heard of somebody complaining about Smarts billing, its good to know that Smart are actively taking this info on board to.

Other companys could learn from this

The billing issue has been ongoing over months, nothing changes but I have never experienced the problem so can't comment except to say that this is a minor matter of timing not like the BT fiasco where the amounts would be wrong and not getting bills at all. See the http://support.smarttelecom.ie/forums/ support forums on Smart for further.
Gotta say the guys and gals who work the board for Smart off their own back do a sterling job (cheque is in the post I presume EJay, Ruby et al )

MC

dub45

Cabaal wrote: »

Have to see I honestly think this is the first time I';ve heard of somebody complaining about Smarts billing, its good to know that Smart are actively taking this info on board to.

Other companys could learn from this

This complaint has been made in the Smart forums a number of times and has been going on for several years now. Smart have proven themselves incapable over a period of issuing bills as required under the direct debit scheme i.e. with a minimum notice of 14 calendar days. Bills have arrived parallel with the direct debits hitting customers accounts. There is no excuse whatsover for this. A once off might be unfortunate but for it to happen on several occasions over a number of years indicates a couldnt care less attitude to the impact of this behaviour on customers accounts which incidentally is not in any way 'minor'.

There has also been a small but disturbing number of acknowledged errors in referalls to debt collectors, again there is no excuse for this - absolutely none. These incidents would suggest that there is a serious absence of any proper checking procedure in existence in Smart's administration prior to any such referrals.

MunsterCycling

Its minor only in the sense of the amounts are correct and the bills issued albeit late but they are in breach of the DD rules if they take the money sooner than they should ie 14 days from notice of amount. The debt collection issue is a disgrace though, no escaping that.

The other thing that is an issue is the inability to view your full bill on-line given that they charge you €2 for the postal version, the last time I tried it was only giving you the sumary bill that you get in the post anyway.

MC

dub45

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Its minor only in the sense of the amounts are correct and the bills issued albeit late but they are in breach of the DD rules if they take the money sooner than they should ie 14 days from notice of amount. The debt collection issue is a disgrace though, no escaping that.

The other thing that is an issue is the inability to view your full bill on-line given that they charge you €2 for the postal version, the last time I tried it was only giving you the sumary bill that you get in the post anyway.

MC

With so many people being forced onto direct debit it is essential that the companies themselves abide by the rules.

If a direct debit customer does not have the money in their account they face a minimum charge of 12 euros from their bank and possibly a charge from the biller (which they are not warned about in advance when signing up for direct debits) - UPC certainly do this - I dont know about others.

When Smart hit an account without the bill payer being properly notified there is the potential not only that the bill payer will not have the correct amount in the account but if he or she has and is not expecting the Smart one that other dds will go unpaid.

Under the dd scheme the biller (or originator as they are known under the dd scheme) can do this with impunity not a fear of anything happening to them yet the bill payer is zapped each time.

Thats why Smart can and do behave like this - the only one that suffers as a result of Smart not complying with the dd scheme is the bill payer!!! Great old system for the banks and originators.:mad:

dub45

Cabaal wrote: »

Have to see I honestly think this is the first time I';ve heard of somebody complaining about Smarts billing, its good to know that Smart are actively taking this info on board to.

Other companys could learn from this

This timing issue has been brought so Smart's attention for years - there is no indication whatsover that they have ever given a damn about it. And they have had more than enough time to sort it out by now. But as I point out above under the dd system they can do what they like. And they do!!!!

byte

Surely it's a small grievance though, as you'd know pretty much roughly what day the money would be DD'ed from your account. I never worried about it anyway during my 2 year spell with Smart.

flamegrill

dub45, are we talking voice bills or just DSL? It's not like the amount changes, is it a supprise that each month it comes out?

I duno. Sky don't send any bills at _all_ and they direct debit me. I can of course get a bill, but I have to pay extra.

As long as I can say it comes out on the xx of the month I don't care.

But as you've said, the guys in Smart need to address the issue if it's there. Being an ex-corp customer I've had this happen, but it's not direct debit related, just 2 bills would arrive with the same invoice number or wrong period dates on it.

Billing is so easy to get right, but even easier to get horribly wrong. I know, we issues 10s of thousands of invoices every month and we've a team of 3 dealing with it.

no excuses really for bad billing. Automation, automation, automation.

Paul

dub45

byte wrote: »

Surely it's a small grievance though, as you'd know pretty much roughly what day the money would be DD'ed from your account. I never worried about it anyway during my 2 year spell with Smart.

If you never worried that of course is your choice. Smart have signed up for the dd scheme and have undertaken certain obligations one of the most basic being a minimum of 14 days notice. There is no excuse for not giving this if they cannot give it then they should not be in the dd scheme.
It is easy to forget a bill is due or that there were a lot of additional calls made during a particular month etc etc.

Remember the purpose of the 14 days notice is to give the customer not only notice of the date of withdrawal but a chance to correct any wrong billing in advance of the dd hitting the account. It should be as much in Smarts interest as the customer´s to give the proper notice. There have been many complaints on here in the past of BT hitting peoples accounts with huge amounts without any notice being given and wreaking havoc with accounts.

As far as I am concerned the notice period is as important as the money being in the account on day required. I will be punished financially if it is not Smart on the other hand have no such fears.

dub45

flamegrill wrote: »

dub45, are we talking voice bills or just DSL? It's not like the amount changes, is it a supprise that each month it comes out?

It would be a surprise ok if it arrivied on time! We are talking voice bills and dsl and of course it can vary hugely from month to month if a lot of additional voice calls were made for example.

flamegrill wrote: »

I duno. Sky don't send any bills at _all_ and they direct debit me. I can of course get a bill, but I have to pay extra.

It is permitted under the dd scheme that where an amount is not variable that the originator can notify the customer of the dd date and then debit accordingly without further notice. If you ordered additional stuff during the month then you should get a bill from Sky or whatever notification you have agreed with them. But even if Sky happened to be wrong in the billing arrangements (which apparently they are not) quoting their errors would not in any way justify Smart´s behaviour.

flamegrill wrote: »

no excuses really for bad billing. Automation, automation, automation.

Agreed and if Smart did care about their customers and complying with their obligations under the dd scheme then if they had a genuine delay in a particular month in getting the bills out surely they could send a global email to their customers reminding them that bills were due etc. How long would that take!

They dont seem to have any problem finding the time to wrongly refer customers to debt collectors!!!

MunsterCycling

Maybe dub45 we should change tack and look at this as a compliance problem that has no repercussions for the wayward company and look to lobby the duffers in the Dail for some proper legisation in this area.

Fines for non compliance and the proof is on the company to prove they complied not the other way round

MC

dub45

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Maybe dub45 we should change tack and look at this as a compliance problem that has no repercussions for the wayward company and look to lobby the duffers in the Dail for some proper legisation in this area.

Fines for non compliance and the proof is on the company to prove they complied not the other way round

MC

Sadly there is not a hope of any such legislation. There is far too much lobbying.

Remember when the Govt was supposed to be tackling companies forcing customers onto dds and the legislation was stalled due to lobbying.

I have recently been in correspondence with IPSO about the direct debit system and they have confirmed for me that no originator (thats a biller) has ever been ejected from the direct debit system. I find that extraordinary given all the stuff we have read and particularly some of the stuff about gyms debiting people a years subscription at a time without notice. I never expected a BT to be expelled (I am a cynic after all!) but I would have thought that in all the years of the dd system someone on the law of averages would have done something bad enough to get kicked out but not at all!

So my constant efforts on here to try and get people to think about the dd system and demand proper compliance.

After all if we ´trust´ Smart and the rest of them with our bank account nos, which to me is a big ´trust´ it should not be too much to demand that they meet their obligations. The dd system save billers huge amounts of money - thus their enthusiasm for it - we make all the sarcrifices - we are the ones who get ripped off with charges - they gain in every way and can do what they bloodywell like.

I can personally vouch that I complained to the manager of the dd scheme in IPSO about o2´s failure to comply with the notice period - and he was contemptuous of my complaint. Now if that gentelman with that attitude is in charge of managing the scheme what hope is there for us bill payers? And remember O2 issue millions of bills every year - all of them which are paid by dd in breach of that scheme´s notice requirments and the IPSO manager concerned doesn´t care!! Sadly there appears to be no one to monitor IPSO.