The last chance for the Greens to save themselves

mumhaabu

It appears as if despite the will of the Irish people rejecting a flawed and dangerous treaty that will turn us into a state of a federal union that we are being forced to go vote again. My question where are a the Green Party on this they vanished off the Radar during Lisbon in April and instead allowed for their individual members to decide how to campaign. The Green Party have no shred of credibility left yet they wipe the slate clean and regain everything they have done.

I think that if the Irish government has the cheek to directly confront the Irish electorate with another Referendum on something we do not want then the Green Party should withdraw from Government and let it collapse and if Labour have any respect for Democracy or our Constitution and Freedom that men bled to death for they should also eject this Lisbon Treaty which represents a move towards a Totalitarian Super Euro State.

Our Freedom was won on the back of an 800year struggle and to decide that Ireland MUST ratify this treaty is an attack on Irish Sovereignty and the Irish people. The Green Party must get back the Moral high ground and the Irish electorate must never be so stupid as to allow our Freedom, our Democracy and our Constitution to be superceded by a European project that aims to establish a Pan European super state and erode our own freedom.

This Project was rejected by the French and Dutch Voters plus the Irish, now we must reject it again as will the Czechs.

I urge the Green Party to end this madness now by collapsing the Irish government if they are willing to commit treason by holding another referendum again.

I urge everyone to Vote NO and use this as a punishment for the Government also for throwing away our prosperity. Vote No to end European Dictatorship before it begins and end Fianna Fail for the next 30 years.

oscarBravo

mumhaabu wrote: »

It appears as if despite the will of the Irish people rejecting a flawed and dangerous treaty that will turn us into a state of a federal union that we are being forced to go vote again.

Damn those Euro-fascists, sending their jackbooted federal stormtroops into our homes to force us into the polling booths at gunpoint!



If you're going to talk about credibility, you might want to read over your posts before you submit them.

Hitman Actual

mumhaabu wrote: »

It appears as if despite the will of the Irish people rejecting a flawed and dangerous treaty that will turn us into a state of a federal union...

I got this far into your post. Explain how the Lisbon Treaty will turn us into a state of a federal union, and I might read the rest of it.

O'Morris

mumhaabu wrote:

It appears as if despite the will of the Irish people rejecting a flawed and dangerous treaty that will turn us into a state of a federal union that we are being forced to go vote again.

They're not forcing us to go vote again. They're forcing the government to ratify the treaty by the end of October 2009.

According to this article in today's Irish Times:

EU leaders are expected to specify that Ireland must ratify the Lisbon Treaty before the term of the current European Commission ends on October 31st, 2009.

It seems that a second referendum will not be much more than a formality as the government will be obligated to ratify the treaty regardless of the outcome of the referendum. It's possible that the Irish Times have just worded the above quote incorrectly though or maybe I just interpreted it incorrectly.

sink

O'Morris wrote: »

It seems that a second referendum will not be much more than a formality as the government will be obligated to ratify the treaty regardless of the outcome of the referendum.

That is absolute rubbish and you know it.

O'Morris wrote: »

It's possible that the Irish Times have just worded the above quote incorrectly though or maybe I just interpreted it incorrectly.

Far more likely.

oscarBravo

O'Morris wrote: »

It seems that a second referendum will not be much more than a formality as the government will be obligated to ratify the treaty regardless of the outcome of the referendum.

Not possible. They'd almost certainly face a constitutional challenge, which it's not likely they'd win. I can't imagine the political will exists to try to ratify without a constitutional amendment, anyway.

skelliser

what happened to it being ratified by the end of this year?

Hitman Actual

O'Morris wrote: »

They're not forcing us to go vote again. They're forcing the government to ratify the treaty by the end of October 2009.

According to this article in today's Irish Times:

It seems that a second referendum will not be much more than a formality as the government will be obligated to ratify the treaty regardless of the outcome of the referendum. It's possible that the Irish Times have just worded the above quote incorrectly though or maybe I just interpreted it incorrectly.

What a ridiculous, misleading post. The reason that the end of October '09 is an important date is that the current commission ends at that time. From here:

wrote:

The protracted process of ratifying the EU's reforming Treaty of Lisbon has also raised the possibility that the treaty could still be in limbo when the current Commission's term ends.

Barroso said the current commissioners could continue working after its term comes to an end on 31 October next year for a month or two while the treaty ratification was being finalised.

The expectation is that Ireland will attempt to ratify the Lisbon treaty again in October or November next year, meaning the Commission could continue in a caretaker format for a short period of time.
Barroso added, however, that it would have to be clear which treaty was in force – the current treaty (of Nice) or the unratified Treaty of Lisbon – rather than having a “grey area”.

“If there is a need for a prolongation of the Commission for some weeks, one or two months, it is perfectly feasible. What is not acceptable is that we have two treaties in force or that we have no treaty,” he said.

Hitman Actual

skelliser wrote: »

what happened to it being ratified by the end of this year?

I think that was the hope of the EU, rather than a deadline. It was hoped that Lisbon conditions would be in force for the European elections in June next year, and for the end of the current commission next October. In hindsight, it was very ambitious to think it would be ratified by now, what with so many countries having to go through the ratification process this year.

Furious-Dave

mumhaabu wrote: »

It appears as if despite the will of the Irish people rejecting a flawed and dangerous treaty that will turn us into a state of a federal union that we are being forced to go vote again. My question where are a the Green Party on this they vanished off the Radar during Lisbon in April and instead allowed for their individual members to decide how to campaign. The Green Party have no shred of credibility left yet they wipe the slate clean and regain everything they have done.

I think that if the Irish government has the cheek to directly confront the Irish electorate with another Referendum on something we do not want then the Green Party should withdraw from Government and let it collapse and if Labour have any respect for Democracy or our Constitution and Freedom that men bled to death for they should also eject this Lisbon Treaty which represents a move towards a Totalitarian Super Euro State.

Our Freedom was won on the back of an 800year struggle and to decide that Ireland MUST ratify this treaty is an attack on Irish Sovereignty and the Irish people. The Green Party must get back the Moral high ground and the Irish electorate must never be so stupid as to allow our Freedom, our Democracy and our Constitution to be superceded by a European project that aims to establish a Pan European super state and erode our own freedom.

This Project was rejected by the French and Dutch Voters plus the Irish, now we must reject it again as will the Czechs.

I urge the Green Party to end this madness now by collapsing the Irish government if they are willing to commit treason by holding another referendum again.

I urge everyone to Vote NO and use this as a punishment for the Government also for throwing away our prosperity. Vote No to end European Dictatorship before it begins and end Fianna Fail for the next 30 years.

Wow! What a complete load of utter nonsense! It amazes me how some people actually do believe that if we ratify the Lisbon Treaty it will be the start of a new Nazi Europe. Ireland is one of the countries that has benefited the most from being part of the EU. Without the EU Ireland would be an underdeveloped ****hole. Yet here we are about to turn our back on them over what? Lies, ignorance, paranoia and deception.

mumhaabu

Furious-Dave wrote: »

Wow! What a complete load of utter nonsense! It amazes me how some people actually do believe that if we ratify the Lisbon Treaty it will be the start of a new Nazi Europe. Ireland is one of the countries that has benefited the most from being part of the EU. Without the EU Ireland would be an underdeveloped ****hole. Yet here we are about to turn our back on them over what? Lies, ignorance, paranoia and deception.

The lies and ignorance is mainly spouted from the yes side, The European Union was originally conceived as the soviet tanks drove into Berlin as way of controlling Europe while using Democracy and Socialism as a tool against the People. The plan of a single Europe united with one currency and one permanent president and the majority of the bureaucrats unelected. I have learned a thing or two from history and that is we should not repeat the mistakes of the past and if we vote Yes to Lisbon we will be admitting Ireland into a European Super-State that will control everything we do and will be totalitarian in every way.

I love freedom and democracy, but the EU is contrary to this, the EU has only suited the big countries such as Germany and France as it gave them a massive market to flog their wares to while allowing a massive stream of Foreign labour who work for practically nothing mainly originating from Eastern Europe. There is no benefit to the ordinary consumer, If I import a car from our nearest neighbour the UK I get hit with VRT which is contrary to the free market, the only advantage is no changing of monies when travelling and no travel restriction, both of these were no introduced with the traveller in mind but the top echelon the top 10% of elites in Brussels and Berlin who control Europe with ridiculous EU Orders and commission reports. This is not Democracy this is Dictatorship and don't be fooled, a yes vote for lisbon is a vote to end Ireland's independence and don't be fooled.

Furious-Dave

I can see your point. I mean it's obvious that the EU lending of money to Ireland for upgrading our roads and infrastructure was really meant to undermine Irish freedom.
Did it ever occur to you that I actually want to be part of that European Super-state? Peace through power is my motto!

oscarBravo

Thread closed. This nonsense is already being "discussed" in detail over on the CT forum; there's nothing to be gained by rehashing it here.