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Lisbon 2: prepare to bend over and recieve ur destiny!

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    #272
    Gallus
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Gallus


    Future of Ireland in Europe: scenarios and implications report Click
    Read it

    People just need to understand this time that if we vote no again as a country our position in Europe can not remain the same. Come from a neutral stand, inform yourselves and vote what you think is best for you or this country.


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    #273
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Lately we've been exporting absolutely f*ck all, which is why we now have unemployment climbing at rates which we have not seen before.
    Thats just not even slightly true. We are a Net exporting economy. This is a well known fact.


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    #274
    imeddyhobbs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭imeddyhobbs


    cooperguy wrote: »
    Ask yourself this. If a different member state of the EU took a decision that adversely affected Ireland would you be happy? Would you want our government to approve something to help them out the next time they needed it? Now imagine if that country made a decision that affected 26 nations.

    You would do the same if you were in their shoes



    Its not like a bank. The EU is for mutual benifit. They dont give money so we can pay interest. They do it to build up an economy therefore making a bigger market in the country which means more trade. Win win. Thats the concept behind it.

    Also the EU has numerous trade agreements that benefit us HUGELY. We are a small country we export. Without the EU we dont have those. As you say we can sell our goods but we dont benefit from the agreements making way less competitive. And of coarse all the US multinationals will be gone as there wont be a link to the EU anymore which is why they are here - an EU headquarters. That as im sure you know would be crippling. In summary yes we do need the EU!

    I notice the lack of the WTO in your statment
    So to get to the point,how would any country that buys our goods and services worm their way out of buying our goods or services under the WTO rules?,the bottom line is that you have to be competitive!are we competitive now?will we be competitive in the future?
    The truth is;is that we have become very uncompetitive within the EU system of thinking.


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    #275
    Donald-Duck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Donald-Duck


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    I notice the lack of the WTO in your statment
    So to get to the point,how would any country that buys our goods and services worm their way out of buying our goods or services under the WTO rules?,the bottom line is that you have to be competitive!are we competitive now?will we be competitive in the future?
    The truth is;is that we have become very uncompetitive within the EU system of thinking.

    Why would the companies stay here? They could leave and be part of Europe again.

    All the WTO means is that trade has to be fair, and we won't have as much to trade if we're not part of Europe.


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    #276
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    cooperguy wrote: »
    Thats just not even slightly true. We are a Net exporting economy. This is a well known fact.

    Yeah, we export more than we import, take the pigs and the cattle out of that and there isn't a whole lot going on around here!


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    #277
    Donald-Duck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Donald-Duck


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Yeah, we export more than we import, take the pigs and the cattle out of that and there isn't a whole lot going on around here!

    Intel, apple, dell, pharmaceuticuls(spelling, I butchered this word)


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    #278
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Yeah, we export more than we import, take the pigs and the cattle out of that and there isn't a whole lot going on around here!
    Ok listen I am definatly not going to argue with you on this one until you actually link me to some bit of evidence instead of just making crap up. Our exports are massive and diverse! And just so you know even if it was just farming that we were exporting that is one of our biggest industries and would affect us massively if it was to stop!

    Now come up with something concrete or move on!

    <Edit> For example something to disagree with the CSO link Iamxavier provided (Thanks Iamxavier:))


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    #279
    imeddyhobbs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭imeddyhobbs


    Gallus wrote: »
    Future of Ireland in Europe: scenarios and implications report Click
    Read it

    People just need to understand this time that if we vote no again as a country our position in Europe can not remain the same. Come from a neutral stand, inform yourselves and vote what you think is best for you or this country.

    Yea lets all be treated like retarded monkeys

    Europe gives us a puzzle:

    Rules

    1 You must put the blue blocks into the blue spaces
    2 Thats right,the blue spaces
    3 Blue blocks=blue spaces
    4 Do it
    5 Listen you Irish ****ers just ****ing do it
    6 You must be very simple if you need this rule,let us do the whole thing for you,you silly little monkey


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    #280
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    I notice the lack of the WTO in your statment
    So to get to the point,how would any country that buys our goods and services worm their way out of buying our goods or services under the WTO rules?,the bottom line is that you have to be competitive!are we competitive now?will we be competitive in the future?
    The truth is;is that we have become very uncompetitive within the EU system of thinking.
    What do u want me to say about the WTO :confused: All they want to ensure is that everything is fair. Beyond that they are not much good to us. And what do you mean by "worm their way out" they just decide to buy off somebody else. Perfectly legal. Without the free flow of goods through borders and the common currency etc we dont exactly have a good case for people to buy off us when they can get it some where else without the expense and hassle that comes with not having the EU wide trade agreements. How uncompetitive would we be then?

    Would you like to address the point of all the multinationals leaving if we decided to leave the EU? Im sure you recognise the importance of them to our country.
    imeddyhobbs wrote:
    Yea lets all be treated like retarded monkeys

    Europe gives us a puzzle:

    Rules

    1 You must put the blue blocks into the blue spaces
    2 Thats right,the blue spaces
    3 Blue blocks=blue spaces
    4 Do it
    5 Listen you Irish ****ers just ****ing do it
    6 You must be very simple if you need this rule,let us do the whole thing for you,you little silly monkey
    __________________
    You have just succeeded in making no sense. Have you read the independent report?


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    #281
    nobodythere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭nobodythere


    No. They obviously didn't hear us the first time


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    #282
    Donald-Duck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Donald-Duck


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    Yea lets all be treated like retarded monkeys

    Europe gives us a puzzle:

    Rules

    1 You must put the blue blocks into the blue spaces
    2 Thats right,the blue spaces
    3 Blue blocks=blue spaces
    4 Do it
    5 Listen you Irish ****ers just ****ing do it
    6 You must be very simple if you need this rule,let us do the whole thing for you,you silly little monkey
    Yeah we tell them to go **** themselves then a few weeks later come back and ask for pig money! They really like us these days


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    #283
    theesicko
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭theesicko


    If Ireland vote no it will certainly be worse for the economy.. I really hope we vote yes. Europe will move on without Ireland if we vote no, Sarkozy has stressed this. We cannot afford not to be part of the new Europe. Voting no will be like pulling out of the EU. The government need to stress the fact that this vote will decide whether Ireland moves forward with Europe or excludes itself from the union in an external association of some form. I know interest rates may be unfavourable atm etc. but the no vote will be worse in the long run.


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    #284
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Natalie Long Gunshot wrote: »
    Huh? We are not dependant on agriculture, nor have we been for a long time. Our biggest exports, believe it or not, are pharmaceuticals, dental and medicinal products. Technology and machinery is ranked high too... not beef and pork.

    Though these pharmaceutical companies are dominated by foreign multinationals so wouldn't dismiss the indigenous ariculture sector.


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    #285
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Yeah, we export more than we import, take the pigs and the cattle out of that and there isn't a whole lot going on around here!

    Huh? We are not dependant on agriculture, nor have we been for a long time. Our biggest exports, believe it or not, are pharmaceuticals, dental and medicinal products. Technology and machinery is ranked high too... not beef and pork.
    cooperguy wrote: »
    Ok listen I am definatly not going to argue with you on this one until you actually link me to some bit of evidence instead of just making crap up

    Think I can help with that. Source
    And just so you know even if it was just farming that we were exporting that is one of our biggest industries and would affect us massively if it was to stop!

    Wrong, it's not our largest industry, but it is pretty big. We are not as dependant on it as we once were.


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    #286
    imeddyhobbs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭imeddyhobbs


    cooperguy wrote: »
    What do u want me to say about the WTO :confused: All they want to ensure is that everything is fair. Beyond that they are not much good to us. And what do you mean by "worm their way out" they just decide to buy off somebody else. Perfectly legal. Without the free flow of goods through borders and the common currency etc we dont exactly have a good case for people to buy off us when they can get it some where else without the expense and hassle that comes with not having the EU wide trade agreements. How uncompetitive would we be then?

    Would you like to address the point of all the multinationals leaving if we decided to leave the EU? Im sure you recognise the importance of them to our country.


    You have just succeeded in making no sense. Have you read the independent report?

    See you are talking about 2 different things

    Irish companys (per ratio) have more people employed in the US than US based companys have employed in Ireland.

    Irish companys are not in the the US because they like burgers,American companys are not in Ireland because they like the color green

    They must both be making money!

    What is your point?


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    #287
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Though these pharmaceutical companies are dominated by foreign multinationals so wouldn't dismiss the indigenous ariculture sector.

    Our beef industry is dominated by foreign demand... what's your point?


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    #288
    Donald-Duck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Donald-Duck


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Though these pharmaceutical companies are dominated by foreign multinationals so wouldn't dismiss the indigenous ariculture sector.

    Hence why hes saying that being part of the EU is important, because if we weren't then they'd get taxed trading to EU states.


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    #289
    Donald-Duck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Donald-Duck


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    See you are talking about 2 different things

    Irish companys (per ratio) have more people employed in the US than US based companys have employed in Ireland.

    Irish companys are not in the the US because they burgers,American companys are not in Ireland because they like the color green

    They must both be making money!

    What is your point?

    You seriously don't know why american companies are in Ireland? I can tell you right now. Free trade inside Europe.

    We make far more from them than we do the Irish companies.


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    #290
    imeddyhobbs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭imeddyhobbs


    Donald-Duck wrote: »
    You seriously don't know why american companies are in Ireland? I can tell you right now. Free trade inside Europe.

    We make far more from them than we do the Irish companies.

    so whats going to stop that?


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    #291
    Donald-Duck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Donald-Duck


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    so whats going to stop that?

    Not being part of the EU means you don't get free trade into it...


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    #292
    imeddyhobbs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭imeddyhobbs


    Donald-Duck wrote: »
    Not being part of the EU means you don't get free trade into it...

    You my friend are a scaremonger!!


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    #293
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    You my friend are a scaremonger!!
    You are kidding arent you! These are simple facts without a single shred of exaggeration. If im wrong point out where and how.


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    #294
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Natalie Long Gunshot wrote: »
    Our beef industry is dominated by foreign demand... what's your point?

    Have read your post again and I took you up wrong.


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    #295
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Donald-Duck wrote: »
    You seriously don't know why american companies are in Ireland? I can tell you right now. Free trade inside Europe.


    And low corporation tax.


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    #296
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Donald-Duck wrote: »
    Hence why hes saying that being part of the EU is important, because if we weren't then they'd get taxed trading to EU states.


    I agree.


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    #297
    imeddyhobbs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭imeddyhobbs


    cooperguy wrote: »
    You are kidding arent you! These are simple facts without a single shred of exaggeration. If im wrong point it out

    You show me and all the rest of us where it states that any country shall have its exports limited or excluded fot no legit reasons


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    #298
    Donald-Duck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Donald-Duck


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    You show me and all the rest of us where it states that any country shall have its exports imited or excluded fot no legit reasons

    No one has said that.


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    #299
    imeddyhobbs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭imeddyhobbs


    Donald-Duck wrote: »
    No one has said that.

    So...what we got to loose?


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    #300
    Donald-Duck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Donald-Duck


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    So...what we got to loose?

    I don't think you get it, there would be no way for us to be properly part of Europe with another No vote.


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    #301
    imeddyhobbs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭imeddyhobbs


    Donald-Duck wrote: »
    I don't think you get it, there would be no way for us to be properly part of Europe with another No vote.

    You are being foolish,already we are being offered more from our previous no vote,vote no again and we will get even more

    Fair trade,I'm all for it.


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