Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Lisbon 2: prepare to bend over and recieve ur destiny!

Options
1…89111314…63

Comments

  • Options
    #302
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    You show me and all the rest of us where it states that any country shall have its exports limited or excluded fot no legit reasons
    Nobody is going to limit our exports. But nobody is going to want to buy them if they have to pay taxes to bring them into the euro zone, deal with border issues etc.

    Also no multinational is going to want to stay in the country if it was out of the EU as the reason they are here is it is a foothold in the EU.

    Do you disagree?


  • Options
    #303
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Donald-Duck wrote: »
    I don't think you get it, there would be no way for us to be properly part of Europe with another No vote.

    And why not??? In what way exactly would our membership change???


  • Options
    #304
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    cooperguy wrote: »
    Nobody is going to limit our exports. But nobody is going to want to buy them if they have to pay taxes to bring them into the euro zone, deal with border issues etc.

    Also no multinational is going to want to stay in the country if it was out of the EU as the reason they are here is it is a foothold in the EU.

    Do you disagree?

    The reason they are all here is more to do with a 12.5% Corporation Tax rate than anything else.


  • Options
    #305
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    You are being foolish,already we are being offered more from our previous no vote,vote no again and we will get even more

    Fair trade,I'm all for it.
    Thats not the way it works. The other countries simply move on with the agreement without us. See the document linked a few pages back for more info.


  • Options
    #306
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    What is the point in having a referendum if there is only one decision that will be accepted??? You wouldn't see the likes of it in f*ckin' Zimbabwe!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #307
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    The reason they are all here is more to do with a 12.5% Corporation Tax rate than anything else.
    Not true. They are here because it is a low tax rate that is within the euro zone. It is useless to them without that
    Darragh29 wrote:
    What is the point in having a referendum if there is only one decision that will be accepted??? You wouldn't see the likes of it in f*ckin' Zimbabwe!
    And it was accepted. Ireland didnt agree to the treaty. If the people of Ireland dont change their minds then they will continue to accept it. If however on getting more information they do change their minds well then that is the will of the people too


  • Options
    #308
    Donald-Duck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Donald-Duck


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    The reason they are all here is more to do with a 12.5% Corporation Tax rate than anything else.

    Actually no its not, its first the EU tax followed by the Corporation tax as the decision as to where in the EU


  • Options
    #309
    imeddyhobbs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭imeddyhobbs


    cooperguy wrote: »
    Nobody is going to limit our exports. But nobody is going to want to buy them if they have to pay taxes to bring them into the euro zone, deal with border issues etc.

    Also no multinational is going to want to stay in the country if it was out of the EU as the reason they are here is it is a foothold in the EU.


  • Options
    #310
    Donald-Duck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Donald-Duck


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    Rubbish.Companys want a low tax economy,thats where they look,the EU wants to take us out of that low tax attraction for forign investment so that all potencial future investors will go to Germany and France,Ireland has no future in the new europe

    I really have no idea what you are on about any more.


  • Options
    #311
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    cooperguy wrote: »
    And it was accepted. Ireland didnt agree to the treaty. If the people of Ireland dont change their minds then they will continue to accept it. If however on getting more information they do change their minds well then that is the will of the people too

    It's nothing of the sort. It's giving two fingers to a whole country while talking out of the other side of their mouths about respecting an electorate. I have a huge problem with this, you can't treat any country in this manner and expect to be taken seriously. We will be voting on the exact same treaty again, how is that respecting an electorate??? We already said NO! What part of the word NO do these f*cking gimps not understand???


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #312
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    Rubbish.Companys want a low tax economy,thats where they look,the EU wants to take us out of that low tax attraction for forign investment so that all potencial future investors will go to Germany and France,Ireland has no future in the new europe
    Ill have to respond in kind im afraid - Rubbish. A low tax economy is something they look for without a doubt. HOWEVER many other things need to be right aswell. There is no point in paying low tax in the country of manufacture if you need to pay additional tax to export to other EU countries. Lets not kid ourselves Ireland is attractive because it is a low tax gateway to the rest of europe. Overall cost of the location is what is considered not what is the direct corporation tax.


  • Options
    #313
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Donald-Duck wrote: »
    Actually no its not, its first the EU tax followed by the Corporation tax as the decision as to where in the EU

    What "EU tax" are you talking about??? The only taxes I'm aware of that a corporation has to pay here are:

    PAYE
    PRSI
    Employers PRSI
    VAT (where applicable)
    Corporation Tax.

    Where does an "EU tax" come into this???


  • Options
    #314
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    It's nothing of the sort. It's giving two fingers to a whole country while talking out of the other side of their mouths about respecting an electorate. I have a huge problem with this, you can't treat any country in this manner and expect to be taken seriously. We will be voting on the exact same treaty again, how is that respecting an electorate??? We already said NO! What part of the word NO do these f*cking gimps not understand???
    They dont understand how people voted no based on issues that were completely unrelated to the treaty i.e. conscription to a European Army. Also it is not the same just today on the news they were saying how they are seeking declarations from the EU on the emotive issues. Therefore an information campaign is being run and another vote is being taken.

    Are you aware of your right to a divorce? We were asked more than once about that


  • Options
    #315
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Donald-Duck wrote: »
    I really have no idea what you are on about any more.


    Think he is mixing up the Corporation tax and taxes to bring goods into the Eurozone.

    It has been suggested that the EU wanted to do away with our low corporation tax rate which obviously plays a huge part for overseas companies choosing Ireland as a location.


  • Options
    #316
    whatisayis
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭whatisayis


    So, what it seems to basically comes down to is that if we vote No we are out of the EU?


  • Options
    #317
    imeddyhobbs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭imeddyhobbs


    whatisayis wrote: »
    So, what it seems to basically comes down to is that if we vote No we are out of the EU?

    Not at all,They need us but you are not told about this!


  • Options
    #318
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    cooperguy wrote: »
    Ill have to respond in kind im afraid - Rubbish. A low tax economy is something they look for without a doubt. HOWEVER many other things need to be right aswell. There is no point in paying low tax in the country of manufacture if you need to pay additional tax to export to other EU countries. Lets not kid ourselves Ireland is attractive because it is a low tax gateway to the rest of europe. Overall cost of the location is what is considered not what is the direct corporation tax.


    I think a company will take into account a number of facors when deciding where to locate and as you said overall costs such as labour,utility but corporation tax is also significant.


  • Options
    #319
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    imeddyhobbs wrote: »
    Not at all,They need us but you are not told about this!
    For what exactly?


  • Options
    #320
    Thor's Hammered
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37 ✭Thor's Hammered


    Grrrrr, bloody politicians, feckin louts......


  • Options
    #321
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    whatisayis wrote: »
    So, what it seems to basically comes down to is that if we vote No we are out of the EU?
    No not really. We would not be out of the EU. However it would severly limit any influence we have left and also the other countries would more than likely move on without us in the treaty which effectivly creates a two tier europe (and guess who's on the bottom tier!)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #322
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    Regardless of what people think about libertas, who are gonna run a candidate across europe in the European elections, if they do well this treaty will be null and void as ganley and co will have a mandate.

    So we may never get to october and a second referendum!
    so i wonder will biffo try a run it before the elections?


  • Options
    #323
    whatisayis
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭whatisayis


    I think perhaps the fact that our original vote was not accepted kind of points to the lack of influence we already have.


  • Options
    #324
    Mrmoe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    I voted no the for the last Lisbon treaty. My main reason was that I believed that Ireland would lose influence in the EU due to the loss of our commisioner. The argument was made that this was the same for every country. However, I believe the loss of a commisioner for us would be more detrimental than say the loss of a commisioner for a larger country. People may argue differently but I believed this to be the case. I had other reasons for voting no but this was probably one of my main reasons.

    I again will probably vote note if the Lisbon treaty is put to the people again.
    From what I have been hearing the treaty will be changed so that Ireland and other countries would get to keep their commisioner. This would resolve the issue I had with the previous treaty. However, the previous treaty has raised a new issue and potentially a more dangerous one. That issue revolves around our elected officials actually listening to what the people say. These same politicians recommended that we should only vote yes when I believed that the correct way to vote was to vote no. I have lost confidence in what they tell me is the best way to vote.


  • Options
    #325
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    cooperguy wrote: »
    They dont understand how people voted no based on issues that were completely unrelated to the treaty i.e. conscription to a European Army. Also it is not the same just today on the news they were saying how they are seeking declarations from the EU on the emotive issues. Therefore an information campaign is being run and another vote is being taken.

    Are you aware of your right to a divorce? We were asked more than once about that

    Yes I know about divorce. The point to note there is that we did not vote on the same thing twice and there were many years between the two referendums, the first refendum held in 1986 and the second in 1995. In any event, we weren't threatened as to how we should vote. It was a take it or leave it appraoch, as it should have been. Clearly not the case here...


  • Options
    #326
    whatisayis
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭whatisayis


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    I voted no the for the last Lisbon treaty. My main reason was that I believed that Ireland would lose influence in the EU due to the loss of our commisioner. The argument was made that this was the same for every country. However, I believe the loss of a commisioner for us would be more detrimental than say the loss of a commisioner for a larger country. People may argue differently but I believed this to be the case. I had other reasons for voting no but this was probably one of my main reasons.

    I again will probably vote note if the Lisbon treaty is put to the people again.
    From what I have been hearing the treaty will be changed so that Ireland and other countries would get to keep their commisioner. This would resolve the issue I had with the previous treaty. However, the previous treaty has raised a new issue and potentially a more dangerous one. That issue revolves around our elected officials actually listening to what the people say. These same politicians recommended that we should only vote yes when I believed that the correct way to vote was to vote no. I have lost confidence in what they tell me is the best way to vote.
    I lost confidence when I heard that most of the politicians telling us to vote yes had not even read the Treaty themselves.


  • Options
    #327
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    I voted no the for the last Lisbon treaty. My main reason was that I believed that Ireland would lose influence in the EU due to the loss of our commisioner. The argument was made that this was the same for every country. However, I believe the loss of a commisioner for us would be more detrimental than say the loss of a commisioner for a larger country. People may argue differently but I believed this to be the case. I had other reasons for voting no but this was probably one of my main reasons.

    I again will probably vote note if the Lisbon treaty is put to the people again.
    From what I have been hearing the treaty will be changed so that Ireland and other countries would get to keep their commisioner. This would resolve the issue I had with the previous treaty. However, the previous treaty has raised a new issue and potentially a more dangerous one. That issue revolves around our elected officials actually listening to what the people say. These same politicians recommended that we should only vote yes when I believed that the correct way to vote was to vote no. I have lost confidence in what they tell me is the best way to vote.
    How do you believe the loss of the commisioner would have affected the influence of Ireland? Also by voting No do you not see how our influence is being affected


  • Options
    #328
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Yes I know about divorce. The point to note there is that we did not vote on the same thing twice and there were many years between the two referendums, the first refendum held in 1986 and the second in 1995. In any event, we weren't threatened as to how we should vote. It was a take it or leave it appraoch, as it should have been. Clearly not the case here...
    It was take it or leave it due to the nature of what the vote was about. Divorce only affected the people voting. Clearly not the case here where the whole EU is part of the treaty and where "leaving it" has side effects (there is no side effects on a decision to allow divorce). Anyway, im going to bed now!


  • Options
    #329
    whatisayis
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭whatisayis


    I'm not trying to be smart here but I really don't see how our influence will be affected.


  • Options
    #330
    imeddyhobbs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭imeddyhobbs


    cooperguy wrote: »
    For what exactly?

    We are the gateway,you used this term yourself

    Try telling Spanish fishermen that they cant fish in Irish water anymore,their government would fall in a fortnight!The french government would be gone overnight!!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #331
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    I have lost confidence in what they tell me is the best way to vote.

    That's a whole other day's debate... What do you do if you simply do not trust the people who are telling you to vote yes???

    The same guy (Biffo), who is telling you to vote yes on Lisbon:

    Can't run a country.

    Has absolutely no strategy whsoever for economic recovery.

    Was Minister for Finance when all the causes of our current economic woes were being put in place.

    Has surrounded himself with a team of people who are clearly not up to the job of running the country, and have no handle on their brief, in particular, Mary Coughlan and Brian Lenihan.

    If he can't run the country, then how can we be sure that his conviction that we should vote for Lisbon is sound??? Because everything this guy has touched since he had the power to make an executive decision, has been a complete disaster. Remember when he was Minister for Health?!?!?!? He f*cking RAN out of that brief and had left the health service with nearly every branch of workers in the health service on strike.


Advertisement