Lisbon 2: prepare to bend over and recieve ur destiny!

hobochris

IvySlayer wrote: »

I'm pro-Europe but I'm, voting like last time, no.

The only changes in this complicated piece of writing I can see are tax, eu law superior to our own. I'm in favour of abortion, but still voting no, but thats a whole other discussion.

And just so people know, we're technically not neutral.

Technically your right, we aren't but Id rather not get to the point war the irish army are like the british and american armys being used for political agenda.

Darragh29

Nehaxak wrote: »

I have NEVER seen before the vast public opinion that is out there now against the government, bordering on absolute hatred at times.
They are so far up their own arse if they think they'll get a yes vote this time around.

It's gone well past bordering on hatred, this government is hated to it's very core.

cooperguy

Nigsy wrote: »

What a joke.

The other 25 have signed the treaty, so how are we supposed to be voting on something different.

SCAM, this EU lot need to be shot down again.

You really dont have a clue about the issues do you. Stop spouting rubbish and give SPECIFICS as to why you want to vote no.

hobochris

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

As I said, no it's not. Come on, let's see the part where it does this?
Not having a dig at you, but over the months of people saying this there was no proof.

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=339

At the end of the day, Democracy will decide which way we go on this. I hope its a no vote but its up to the people to decide. either way I unlike the government respect that vote even if it goes against my views.

thelordofcheese

hobochris wrote: »

If this gets a yes vote then we may never vote on such an issue again, the treaty gives the EU power to remove the need to vote on such things from our constitution.

No it doesn't, who told you that lie.

SEPT 23 1989

Darragh29 wrote: »

It's gone well past bordering on hatred, this government is hated to it's very core.

very true

Highsider

Darragh29 wrote: »

It's gone well past bordering on hatred, this government is hated to it's very core.

Even there hardcore support is againest them now IMO

Nigsy

cooperguy wrote: »

You really dont have a clue about the issues do you. Stop spouting rubbish and give SPECIFICS as to why you want to vote no.

The issues??

The EU fat cats are a pack of criminals. I'm anti EU, I could not give a fcuk about a commissioner, as we know they sign a declaration stating that they put the EU before their home country. As for abortion and tax, these issues were not the reason I voted NO the first time, but evidently not for the last time.

Ever heard of the USSR? We'll have our owm GULAGS for "dissenters".

Darragh29

Seeing our walking haystack of a Taoiseach running up and down the country for Lisbon when the stray mutts down in the Cats & Dogs home knew that we were looking at the business end of a recession that is starting to now look more like a depression, was enough to make me vote no, as if I needed another reason.

That was last June and we are still waiting for a proactive economic strategy to get us back on track for some sort of a recovery.

This guy needs to get his priorities straightened out big time...

hobochris

cooperguy wrote: »

You really dont have a clue about the issues do you. Stop spouting rubbish and give SPECIFICS as to why you want to vote no.

In turn please give SPECIFICS as to why you want to vote yes.

hobochris

Darragh29 wrote: »

Seeing our walking haystack of a Taoiseach running up and down the country for Lisbon when the stray mutts down in the Cats & Dogs home knew that we were looking at the business end of a recession that is starting to now look more like a depression, was enough to make me vote no, as if I needed another reason.

That was last June and we are still waiting for a proactive economic strategy to get us back on track for some sort of a recovery.

This guy needs to get his priorities straightened out big time...

+1

Weather we like it or not our economy is deeply tied into America's economy, meaning if they go through bad times so do we.
not much the EU can do about that(treaty or no treaty) is there?

thelordofcheese

Nigsy wrote: »

The issues??

The EU fat cats are a pack of criminals. I'm anti EU, I could not give a fcuk about a commissioner, as we know they sign a declaration stating that they put the EU before their home country. As for abortion and tax, these issues were not the reason I voted NO the first time, but evidently not for the last time.

Ever heard of the USSR? We'll have our owm GULAGS for "dissenters".

The fact that you'd make a comparison to the USSR and gulags shows what a spoilt, petulant child you are. No matter what problems the EU has, compairing it to stalinist russia shows your own ignorance of history and current events.
The fact that you'd try and cheapen the unimaginable human suffering that took place in the former USSR for your own crazed consipiracy theories is disgusting.
Get the hell out.

My name is Mud

Im not even reading the 33 pages of shit flinging going on here.

Just one thing to note for both YES and NO campaigners

"If you dont know what the treaty is about, DONT VOTE"

hobochris

My name is Mud wrote: »

Im not even reading the 33 pages of shit flinging going on here.

Just one thing to note for both YES and NO campaigners

"If you dont know what the treaty is about, DONT VOTE"

you could be onto something...lol

ShooterSF

My name is Mud wrote: »

Im not even reading the 33 pages of shit flinging going on here.

Just one thing to note for both YES and NO campaigners

"If you dont know what the treaty is about, DONT VOTE"

Ah yes but if you don't win, blame low turnout

cooperguy

Nigsy wrote: »

The issues??

The EU fat cats are a pack of criminals. I'm anti EU, I could not give a fcuk about a commissioner, as we know they sign a declaration stating that they put the EU before their home country. As for abortion and tax, these issues were not the reason I voted NO the first time, but evidently not for the last time.

Ever heard of the USSR? We'll have our owm GULAGS for "dissenters".

So nothing specific to the treaty then. Not the smartest way to vote is it? Vote on the issues at hand not your imagination

My name is Mud

ShooterSF wrote: »

Ah yes but if you don't win, blame low turnout

Touché, but how do you know what side im on?

Voter mis-information is a terrible thing.

From the emergence of the unknown "millionare" Ganley and his myths (see politics forum for full debunking of said myths)

And from Fatso Cowen and his cronies saying "vote or die muthafukas"

Im just going to sit on the fence for now.

Tar.Aldarion

hobochris wrote: »

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=339

At the end of the day, Democracy will decide which way we go on this. I hope its a no vote but its up to the people to decide. either way I unlike the government respect that vote even if it goes against my views.

Where is the proof there?
If anything they just twist the words to make them mean what they want them to mean and then show you the Irish constitution going, isn't that lovely. EU law has had primacy over Irish law since 1973. EU law is not superior to our Constitution, because the Constitution is the supreme instrument of Irish sovereignty, which is why we need to amend it to allow ratification of EU treaties. The treaty does nothing to change this. If it required a referendum before the treaty, it would after. Abortion etc.

hobochris

cooperguy wrote: »

So nothing specific to the treaty then. Not the smartest way to vote is it? Vote on the issues at hand not your imagination

this being after hours I'd just like to respectively say: YOUR MA!

sorry, had to be done.

Boskowski

I don't give a **** about commissioners or about abortion or Irish neutrality. The real issues are elsewhere.

This 'treaty' is for all means and purposes a constitution and it doesn't even vaguely resemble what I've been taught in school about democratic state-theory.

It has to be a 'no' since we're the only ones given the chance to vote and therefore it's our responsibility to throw a spanner in the works of creating this monster of an anti-democratic, super-capitalistic, beaurocratic super-state.

boring_job_guy

realcam wrote: »

I don't give a **** about commissioners or about abortion or Irish neutrality. The real issues are elsewhere.

This 'treaty' is for all means and purposes a constitution and it doesn't even vaguely resemble what I've been taught in school about democratic state-theory.

It has to be a 'no' since we're the only ones given the chance to vote and therefore it's our responsibility to throw a spanner in the works of creating this monster of an anti-democratic, super-capitalistic, beaurocratic super-state.

+1. The whole unelected european "president-type thing" is scary if you ask me (not very democratic).

also the fact that it's unreadable seems pretty dodge if you ask me.

My name is Mud

realcam wrote: »

I don't give a **** about commissioners or about abortion or Irish neutrality. The real issues are elsewhere.

It has to be a 'no' since we're the only ones given the chance to vote and therefore it's our responsibility to throw a spanner in the works of creating this monster of an anti-democratic, super-capitalistic, beaurocratic super-state.

Please expand on the real issues being "elsewhere"

See above post - if you dont know, DONT VOTE.

PS. All other EU countries that ratified Lisbon, did so via the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED government.

That includes the French, the Dutch etc.

ShooterSF

My name is Mud wrote: »

Touché, but how do you know what side im on?

Voter mis-information is a terrible thing.

From the emergence of the unknown "millionare" Ganley and his myths (see politics forum for full debunking of said myths)

And from Fatso Cowen and his cronies saying "vote or die muthafukas"

Im just going to sit on the fence for now.

Good point. All Im saying is you (in the plural everyone sense) can never win. You're right about the rest of your post.

My name is Mud

boring_job_guy wrote: »

+1. The whole unelected european "president-type thing" is scary if you ask me (not very democratic).

also the fact that it's unreadable seems pretty dodge if you ask me.

Running the risk of repeating myself here, but if you dont know, dont vote.

The politics forum is over there --->, and the issues are all explained in rather good detail, if you bothered to search.

However, as you have failed to do that, let alone reasearch the treaty yourself, I would think your understanding on the "president-type thing" is not at all accurate.

Nehaxak

My name is Mud wrote: »

See above post - if you dont know, DONT VOTE.

I disagree. If you do not understand it then go out and either spoil your vote (your choice) or vote NO.
Don't waste your democracy and right to vote by not even bothering to turn up.

That or go read the treaty yourself and make your own mind up without any influence from either side.

thebman

boring_job_guy wrote: »

+1. The whole unelected european "president-type thing" is scary if you ask me (not very democratic).

also the fact that it's unreadable seems pretty dodge if you ask me.

Its an International treaty between multiple nations.


Don't you think its more likely that it was impossible to make it readable and that they did their best job.

Biro

thelordofcheese wrote: »

I could be wrong, but i believe we have had several since the state was founded.
I could be wrong though, maybe when people voted for the first time what they meant was "here's our decision and never, ever, EVER ask us again".

You keep peddaling that line. So it's OK to keep asking "are you still sure?" every year till we change our minds, is it? If a Yes is passed this time, will you be happy with a "best out of 3" election in 2010 just to be sure to be sure?

Biro

ART6 wrote: »

It may have escaped the attention of the EU elite, but long before the current recession leaped out and bit us all we were already losing ground fast to the developing economies of India, China etc. So how were we in the EU reacting to that? With continuing floods of regulations that hampered our industries and dramatically increased their costs, while at the same time insisting that the EU must find a way of competing. Doing that in handcuffs while the other guy has both hands free presents some difficulties. Approving the Lisbon Treaty simply ensures that the EU Commission can continue to stifle our industries, and that, to me, is as good a reason as any to vote NO.

Clearly Cowan et al can't see that, but since none of them have ever worked in industry that's hardly surprising. We have an interesting case here of the blind leading the sighted.

Bang on. Regulating the shape of a banana is really the stuff of politicians who I'd rather have nothing to do with the decisions in my country.

My name is Mud

Nehaxak wrote: »

I disagree. If you do not understand it then go out and either spoil your vote (your choice) or vote NO.

Using that logic, if you do not understand how an internal comubstion engine works, you should

A: Crash your car (spoil vote)
or
B: Dont drive (vote no)

This is the crux of the issue.

Uninformed voters spoiling the democratic will of the informed.

Biro

Terry wrote: »

Really?
You just want referendum after referendum?

Great idea, especially in a time of recession.

You just want decision after decision to be made by someone else from now on, with the people having no say?
Great idea - recession or no recession! Everyone trusts politicians, right? Right?