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Lisbon 2: prepare to bend over and recieve ur destiny!

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    #602
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    Ckal wrote: »
    If you don't vote yes, we'll leave you behind.
    They have no choice but to do that. They are just the facts


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    #603
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,222 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Ckal wrote: »
    I can't respect a certain country's vote when they use scaremonger tactics towards us to vote yes.
    WooPeeA wrote: »
    What tactics?
    Mrspinkbunny wrote:
    PLEASE VOTE NO!!
    WooPeeA wrote: »
    And automatically become responsible for kicking Ireland out of European community
    These tactics.


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    #604
    My name is Mud
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭My name is Mud


    Ckal wrote: »

    The French and Dutch rejected it by referendum.

    Sarkozy's election manifesto said he would ratify the treaty if elected.

    The French people voted for him, and guess what, he ratified it.

    The Dutch had a parliamentary vote, which who, funnily enough, were elected by the Dutch people

    Democracy etc.


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    #605
    Ckal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 422 ✭✭Ckal


    cooperguy wrote: »
    They have no choice but to do that. They are just the facts

    Ffs, of course they have a choice! They could legally amend the treaty (in which country's have to re-ratify it if they are happy with it) and let us vote on the legally-binding amended treaty.


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    #606
    utick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 562 ✭✭✭utick


    heres another fact, under eu rules all countries must ratify the treaty for it to come into force, now we are being told that they will go ahead without us (breaking their own rules) while at the same time they are telling us that they respect the irish vote? give me a break


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    #607
    WooPeeA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭WooPeeA


    utick wrote: »
    the vote is weather to accept or reject the lisbon treaty, just 2 choices, there is no third choice to leave the eu. the only way ireland can leave is if we vote ourselves out.
    They were working on that treaty hard, negotiating, debating and changing everything for 10 times. It may surprise you but Ireland made big part of that. Irish delegations were traveling among Europe trying to convince people to accept several articles of the treaty.

    All of the states were working like that until all of them accepted the final text. And all of them, as they promised to each other before have ratified it. It took 3 years.

    Don't be surprised if some of the MEPs will get really mad. They spent most of their terms of office working on that project.


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    #608
    projectmayhem
    Registered Users Posts: 9,480 ✭✭✭projectmayhem


    I voted yes. I would consider myself very much a fan of the EU, and what it stands for. But when the people vote no, then that is our decision in a democratic country.

    You can't just re-submit it to the people again because it was the "wrong" answer. This isn't democracy.

    Brian Cowan couldn't really have done a worse job here. The worst part is, no one in Irish politics is actually any good, so doesn't matter who's at the top, because they're all complete gobsh1tes.


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    #609
    Ckal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 422 ✭✭Ckal


    My name is Mud wrote: »
    Sarkozy's election manifesto said he would ratify the treaty if elected.

    The French people voted for him, and guess what, he ratified it.

    The Dutch had a parliamentary vote, which who, funnily enough, were elected by the Dutch people

    Democracy etc.

    That doesn't prove that the majority of the Dutch and French like the treaty. They obviously don't if they rejected it. I could hate the treaty, but like Sarkozy for many other reasons. He could have proposed a min-wage increase in the public sector and he could have added an extra x-euro onto monthly child benefits. I'd vote for him then, still knowing that the treaty may be ratified, but just because he ratifies it doesn't mean it will go ahead.


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    #610
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    utick wrote: »
    heres another fact, under eu rules all countries must ratify the treaty for it to come into force, now we are being told that they will go ahead without us (breaking their own rules) while at the same time they are telling us that they respect the irish vote? give me a break

    hear, hear!


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    #611
    WooPeeA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭WooPeeA


    Ckal wrote: »
    The French and Dutch rejected it by referendum.
    So EU made lots of research to know the reasons. They spoke to people, organized many debate in schools and universities, they spoke to government as well as opposition which could take power in the future.

    They mad all changes that people wanted.
    The Czech aren't keen.
    Klaus has to sign it. After 2 elected by people chambers of parliament will ratify the treaty, president has to sign it.

    President Klaus has almost no support. People simply don't like him.


    I don't know about Germans.


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    #612
    WooPeeA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭WooPeeA


    biko wrote: »
    These tactics.
    It's called geopolitic futurology. :cool:


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    #613
    Ckal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 422 ✭✭Ckal


    WooPeeA wrote: »
    So EU made lots of research to know the reasons. They spoke to people, organized many debate in schools and universities, they spoke to government as well as opposition which could take power in the future.

    They mad all changes that people wanted.

    Why aren't they doing that for us, then? Why are we getting shunned? They haven't re-written the treaty for us like the did for the Dutch and French.

    WooPeeA wrote: »
    Klaus has to sign it. After 2 elected by people chambers of parliament will ratify the treaty, president has to sign it.

    President Klaus has almost no support. People simply don't like him.

    I meant the Czech Public. Whether he's liked or not, people can still dislike the treaty, which some Czech's do. Every country has a big chunk who won't agree with things, but they simply can't vote on the matter at hand.


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    #614
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    cooperguy wrote: »
    And my point is proven very quickly!

    Ah yes you found the ONLY person that voted No. Well done 100% of no voters are mistaken :rolleyes:


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    #615
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    I see the British have gripes too about us.
    The Mail (yea! I know :rolleyes: ) say we are being "bribed"
    Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1093813/Lisbon-adopted-EU-leaders-agree-bribes-convince-Irish-voters-vote-yes-Treaty-second-referendum.html


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    #616
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    Ah yes you found the ONLY person that voted No. Well done 100% of no voters are mistaken :rolleyes:
    Well done on missing the point. I was saying people who vote no because they want to "get back at the government" instead of dealing with the issues at hand are'nt the brightest sparks. That was what I was referring to:rolleyes:


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    #617
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    cooperguy wrote: »
    Well done on missing the point. I was saying people who vote no because they want to "get back at the government" instead of dealing with the issues at hand are'nt the brightest sparks. That was what I was referring to:rolleyes:

    You also stated that the bull**** assurances on crap like conscription and abortion should satisfy all no voters. Assuming we all voted on non-issue topics like those.


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    #618
    Mrspinkbunny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭Mrspinkbunny


    cooperguy wrote: »
    And my point is proven very quickly!

    Yeah Yeah! Like your rye attiitude doesn`t mean I`m right grow up!


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    #619
    Mrspinkbunny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭Mrspinkbunny


    Biggins wrote: »
    I see the British have gripes too about us.
    The Mail (yea! I know :rolleyes: ) say we are being "bribed"
    Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1093813/Lisbon-adopted-EU-leaders-agree-bribes-convince-Irish-voters-vote-yes-Treaty-second-referendum.html

    YEP!


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    #620
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    Mrspinkbunny wrote: »
    Yeah Yeah! Like your rye attiitude doesn`t mean I`m right grow up!
    Your telling me to grow up:rolleyes: Your the one who thinks you'll be teaching the government a lesson. Here is a quick one for you. Thats what local and general elections are for. So enough with the tantrum and deal with the issues at hand and not the ones you would like to be voting on


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    #621
    Mrspinkbunny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭Mrspinkbunny


    Still right cooperboy!


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    #622
    Mrspinkbunny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭Mrspinkbunny


    I`m taking an issue out of there book they have quite a long history of linking unrelated things don`t they. Clearly it works so lets turn this into a loud and clear attack on this Government. The end for me justifies the means I don`t agree with Lisbon and I don`t agree with Lisbon two bird one stone! Oh maybe I should do leafleting or something stir the hate and get my way isn`t that just turning there tactics against them?


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    #623
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    Oh and something that was pointed out over in the politics forum. Some people voted No because they didnt want to loose a commissioner. Now they are in the situation where they have to vote Yes if they dont want to loose a commissioner because under the Nice Treaty the Commission is being reduced in size at the end of next year. Therefore the only way to keep the commissioner is to vote Yes and take advantage of the concession given to us with Lisbon


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    #624
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    cooperguy wrote: »
    Oh and something that was pointed out over in the politics forum. Some people voted No because they didnt want to loose a commissioner. Now they are in the situation where they have to vote Yes if they dont want to loose a commissioner because under the Nice Treaty the Commission is being reduced in size at the end of next year. Therefore the only way to keep the commissioner is to vote Yes and take advantage of the concession given to us with Lisbon

    Agreed and as I pointed out in that thread those who thought it pointless to keep the extra commissioners as they're arent actually there to fight for one country but to do what's best for Europe, which was most of the Yes voters argument in lisbon 1, now need to vote NO to keep the rules as laid out by Nice to get rid of the excess ones.
    Kinda ironic eh? :D


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    #625
    Mrspinkbunny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭Mrspinkbunny


    I like our constitution and our country just the way it is (minus the current bunch of wasters and the already amended laws under the eu). I do not choose to move toward but rather away from a more united europe.


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    #626
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    Mrspinkbunny wrote: »
    a more united europe.
    Which of coarse is how the country became what it is today, without a united europe Ireland would be very different. And this treaty streamlines that


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    #627
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    I might be wrong here so please correct me if I am wrong, the govt have said that they have negotiated hard, and got guarantees on three key issues.

    However at the time of the vote these issues were so supposed to be guaranteed anyway.

    What has changed?


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    #628
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    I might be wrong here so please correct me if I am wrong, the govt have said that they have negotiated hard, and got guarantees on three key issues.

    However at the time of the vote these issues were so supposed to be guaranteed anyway.

    What has changed?
    They worked hard to get the commissioner. Some nations still arent happy with that.

    The other issues were always gauranteed that way


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    #629
    Mrspinkbunny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭Mrspinkbunny


    cooperguy wrote: »
    Which of coarse is how the country became what it is today, without a united europe Ireland would be very different. And this treaty streamlines that

    Eh what has the country become?
    I see more unhappy stressed people and a third world infrastructure?


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    #630
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    cooperguy wrote: »
    They worked hard to get the commissioner. Some nations still arent happy with that.

    The other issues were always gauranteed that way


    So despite what we were told before vote number 1, it was negotiable and it wasn't the only deal in town.


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    #631
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    Mrspinkbunny wrote: »
    Eh what has the country become?
    I see more unhappy stressed people and a third world infrastructure?
    Well I suppose Ill give one quick example. That third world infrastructure your on about, have you noticed any of the new first world stuff? The motorways etc. Now have you noticed the big signs saying funded by the EU?

    Also I suppose the full employment up until this year was another happy side effect of the EU


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