Lisbon 2: prepare to bend over and recieve ur destiny!

HouseHippo

Forget about the fact that 13 year olds are running around shooting old men and teenagers are peddeling heroin.....

We are too busy trying to fit in with the rest of Europe.Democracy my hole!

shivkk06

I didnt vote last time forgot to register but im going to make sure im registered this time so i can vote NO for one i dont understand and 2 we shouldnt have to re vote because we didnt give right answer. Why get ppl to vote in the first place

D_murph

if we voted yes last time, i can imagine once would have been enough :rolleyes:

its all our fault for not giving them the answer they wanted i suppose :rolleyes:

democracy my arse :mad:

ejmaztec

HouseHippo wrote: »

Forget about the fact that 13 year olds are running around shooting old men and teenagers are peddeling heroin.....

We are too busy trying to fit in with the rest of Europe.Democracy my hole!

WooPeeA

Ckal wrote: »

Why aren't they doing that for us, then? Why are we getting shunned? They haven't re-written the treaty for us like the did for the Dutch and French.

If they did then another country would disagree with the treaty. And it would goes on and on..

People should know that we finally found a compromise, we should accept it rather than looking for another argues.


Another thing is that even if they wanted to do so, Irish are not able to show the articles with which they disagree. The reasons to vote no were mostly country's inside problems and all other reasons but not the Treaty itself.

Donald-Duck

shivkk06 wrote: »

I didnt vote last time forgot to register but im going to make sure im registered this time so i can vote NO for one i dont understand

So you're lazy?

WooPeeA

cooperguy wrote: »

There is more to infrastructure than the M50 you know. And those upgrade works guess who is paying for them too. Where would our infrastructure be without the billions invested by Europe?

Full employment is exactly what we had by the way. 3% unemployment is considered full employment because there is always a small percentage of people who dont want to or cant work.

And dont kid yourself all the "real" jobs from multinationals are only here because of our EU membership which gives the companies the ability to move goods throughout Europe without border controls or taxes (and of coarse our low corporate tax rate). I assume you consider industries involved in medical devices, pharmaceuticals, IT etc. real jobs.

At this stage I do have to ask you, are you actually of voting age?

Indeed.

Same with wages and level of living you see today. Would that be the same if EU wouldn't pump billions into the Irish economy when they need it the most?

But they did, and never asked for anything back.

Donald-Duck

Mrspinkbunny wrote: »

I`m actually a mature student ran a business (bit of a high flyer) chucked it wasn`t happy. More to life and all that. Although after the Law exam today I`m not so sure! No was never dependant nor benefited from a multinational. I reckon the pollution from all these multinational out ways any recent or current benefits. The damage is yet to be seen! Your right it is the fault of the Government and i am of the opinion that we should not trust them there up to no good how is giving ourself less power a good plan??

Do you have any idea how much pollution Agriculture causes?

Donald-Duck

skelliser wrote: »

spoken better then gay mitchell!

im sick of saying this, lisbon cannot be ratified without us. They cannot move ahead on there own.
This scaremongering that we will be left behind is rubbish, we were told this before lisbon 1 and what happened, nothing.

So say 6months down the line they decide a new treaty, less say its called "Paris" instead of Lisbon. But its basically Lisbon with a new name. They make it so majority rules instead of everyone has to accept it?

Donald-Duck

googs wrote: »

I don't believe all this crap that the reason there was a no vote the first time round was that the people were "misinformed" or "didn't understand it because it was too complex"... Just because we got money for infrastructural improvements years ago doesn't mean that we have to completely give away what little power we have left in the EU.. everything comes with a price.... the handouts from the EU weren't free ! the price we had to pay was the handing over of our vast territorial waters to the French and Spanish...

Voted no the first time, will vote no again..... and if there is a no vote and we get booted out......which is highly unlikely -> f^&k it.... just go the way of the Swiss and Norwegians... join the European Free Trade Area....

Somebody didn't do his reading of the changes.

(Plus they've been giving us huge amounts of money as lately as this year, try drive around a few roads in Ireland and see the massive blue signs that say "THIS WAS FUNDED BY ...")

WooPeeA

skelliser wrote: »

spoken better then gay mitchell!

im sick of saying this, lisbon cannot be ratified without us. They cannot move ahead on there own.
This scaremongering that we will be left behind is rubbish, we were told this before lisbon 1 and what happened, nothing.

Don't be surprised if after rejecting the treaty in new referendum Ireland won't be even invited to important meetings.

WooPeeA

shivkk06 wrote: »

I didnt vote last time forgot to register but im going to make sure im registered this time so i can vote NO for one i dont understand and 2 we shouldnt have to re vote because we didnt give right answer. Why get ppl to vote in the first place

Is it not better to have your time and try to understand it rather than reject something that may bring far long time consequences on your country just because you didn't understand it? Or didn't want to understand.

An Fear Aniar

Donald-Duck wrote: »

(Plus they've been giving us huge amounts of money as lately as this year, try drive around a few roads in Ireland and see the massive blue signs that say "THIS WAS FUNDED BY ...")

So how much do you sell your votes for these days?


.

Donald-Duck

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

So how much do you sell your votes for these days?


.

I was correcting his post. You should really read a post entirely before you comment.

When you vote do you not vote for whats better for you?

An Fear Aniar

WooPeeA wrote: »

Same with wages and level of living you see today. Would that be the same if EU wouldn't pump billions into the Irish economy when they need it the most?

In my view, this was reparations from the European colonial powers after centuries of exploitation.

But they did, and never asked for anything back

They are asking for our sovereignty.

The Euro political elites are denying 100's of millions of voters in Europe the chance to say NO. Which the majority want to do.

Stop being so naive.


.

Donald-Duck

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

In my view, this was reparations from the European colonial powers after centuries of exploitation.



They are asking for our sovereignty.

The Euro political elites are denying 100's of millions of voters in Europe the chance to say NO. Which the majority want to do.

Stop being so naive.


.

You really have no clue, you should read up on how voting works in some of them countries. They don't have referendums, ever. It is decided that whoever is voted into Government will make the correct decision.












.

googs

Donald-Duck wrote: »

Somebody didn't do his reading of the changes.

(Plus they've been giving us huge amounts of money as lately as this year, try drive around a few roads in Ireland and see the massive blue signs that say "THIS WAS FUNDED BY ...")

What changes ??

anonymous_joe

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

In my view, this was reparations from the European colonial powers after centuries of exploitation.



They are asking for our sovereignty.

The Euro political elites are denying 100's of millions of voters in Europe the chance to say NO. Which the majority want to do.

Stop being so naive.


.

'The European Colonial Powers'

The only one of those we have any issues with would be the UK. And, while they may have raped our country a long long time ago, there was no such thing as a united Ireland until they conquered us. No-one else ever exploited us.

There is no such thing as a Euro political elite, nor is there some kind of secret society dedicated to keeping politicians in power. Even in Ireland, the vast majority of politicians are in power because they're very popular and influential in their own small area.

Ireland is the only country that has to have a referndum on this, because it's in our constitution. And in this context it shouldn't be. The Irish people are being asked to vote on an issue which is nigh on impossible to understand. Do you know anything about running a bureaucracy that has to administer an area with a population of almost 500 million? Have you a clue? The treaty was a highly technical document, it would be like a doctor performing surgery having to ask a panel of people who've never performed surgery if he could or could not do something. Or letting a farmer decide on a complex point of law, or a lawyer deciding what to farm. It's silly, but we have to vote on it.

They are not asking for our soverignty. They do not want to tear down our flags and steal our women. Paranoia is always amusing, but this is just misguided. We've gained immensely from being in the EU, and have a vastly unfair say on how things are run. 800,000 or so Irish people out of 500,000,000 said no and were listened to. That seems to fly in the face of democracy.

Mrspinkbunny

HouseHippo wrote: »

Forget about the fact that 13 year olds are running around shooting old men and teenagers are peddeling heroin.....

We are too busy trying to fit in with the rest of Europe.Democracy my hole!

So have you seen this then? Don`t but into the hype open your eyes...Minister Ahern started trying to ban weapons 2 years ago LEGAL not illegal. They are using the media to frighten and scaremonger people so they will equate the two things which are not relevant. Nothings changed its just now an issue that is on your mind you`ve been minipulated. How many deaths have LEGAL (think how difficult it is to get a licence) pistols caused in the last ten years? I can tell you - NONE so why? I can tell you why if you want....

An Fear Aniar

Donald-Duck wrote: »

You really have no clue, you should read up on how voting works in some of them countries. They don't have referendums, ever. It is decided that whoever is voted into Government will make the correct decision.

Thanks for the ad hominem attack, very helpful. Bullying is a very effective tactic, which the EU elites have used regularly.

I think you'll find that most people in Europe actually want to vote on this. But does that matter to you? Does what the people want matter? It seems not. Does that not set alarm bells ringing?


.

An Fear Aniar

anonymous_joe wrote: »

The Irish people are being asked to vote on an issue which is nigh on impossible to understand

They already did, and they thew it in the bin. Isn't that how democracy works, or do I have no clue?


.

Terry

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

Thanks for the ad hominem attack, very helpful. Bullying is a very effective tactic, which the EU elites have used regularly.

I think you'll find that most people in Europe actually want to vote on this. But does that matter to you? Does what the people want matter? It seems not. Does that not set alarm bells ringing?


.

Who are the European elite?
Can I have some names, please?

whatisayis

According to Independent.ie 12/12/08:
"Minister Martin said it is clear the issue of the Commissioner is crucial for voters"
This is a moot point because, under the Nice Treaty, we will eventually lose our commissioner anyway. We will also not be kicked out of the EU if we vote No again. Abortion, tax and conscription were never part of the Treaty. So, what has changed since we were last asked to vote?

melekalikimaka

Ckal wrote: »

I can't respect a certain country's vote when they use scaremonger tactics towards us to vote yes.

thats what got the no vote in the first place tho

melekalikimaka

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

They are asking for our sovereignty.

The Euro political elites are denying 100's of millions of voters in Europe the chance to say NO. Which the majority want to do.

Stop being so naive.


.

if you dont have anything constructive to add you really shouldnt post this waffle, i'm not even gonna ask where you got that information as i assume in was between a pair of legs

anonymous_joe

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

They already did, and they thew it in the bin. Isn't that how democracy works, or do I have no clue?


.

Well clearly not, because you're objecting to a rerun of the referendum. Your opinions might have changed when the full picture was given to you, as it was not the last time. (The lies pedalled by aspects of the No campaign dont even come into it yet, because hte yes side did an awful job of campaigning.)

You're being given another chance to make use of your rights under democracy to vote. So thank the government for that.

whatisayis wrote: »

According to Independent.ie 12/12/08:
"Minister Martin said it is clear the issue of the Commissioner is crucial for voters"
This is a moot point because, under the Nice Treaty, we will eventually lose our commissioner anyway. We will also not be kicked out of the EU if we vote No again. Abortion, tax and conscription were never part of the Treaty. So, what has changed since we were last asked to vote?

People believed abortion tax and conscription were part of the Treaty. They were lied to. They might not have voted no if they'd known the truth.

Rich1691

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/countries/index_en.htm
I think this shows us where we stand and how the irish vote would affect europe!:rolleyes:

26/11/2008 - Czech Court clears the Treaty

The Czech Constitutional Court has given a positive verdict on the compatibility of the Treaty of Lisbon with the Czech constitutional order. This paves the way for the ratification process to continue. The Czech Republic will take over the rotating Presidency of the EU Council on 1 January 2009.

And now it looks like we're on our own!

Donald-Duck

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

Thanks for the ad hominem attack, very helpful. Bullying is a very effective tactic, which the EU elites have used regularly.

I think you'll find that most people in Europe actually want to vote on this. But does that matter to you? Does what the people want matter? It seems not. Does that not set alarm bells ringing?


.

You still do not understand, they just simply do not have referendums. On anything.

Terry

Rich1691 wrote: »

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/countries/index_en.htm
I think this shows us where we stand and how the irish vote would affect europe!:rolleyes:

26/11/2008 - Czech Court clears the Treaty

The Czech Constitutional Court has given a positive verdict on the compatibility of the Treaty of Lisbon with the Czech constitutional order. This paves the way for the ratification process to continue. The Czech Republic will take over the rotating Presidency of the EU Council on 1 January 2009.

And now it looks like we're on our own!

The Polish have yet to ratify the treaty.

Run_to_da_hills

Ireland will have the privilage to vote TWICE on an identical Lisbon referendum while up to 500 Million NEVER even had the oppertunity to vote ONCE.

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=703