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Lisbon 2: prepare to bend over and recieve ur destiny!

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    #1022
    Valmont
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭Valmont


    Terry wrote: »
    They want to believe the lies because they don't like the government.

    That sums it up for me. Is anyone else worried about what will happen if we vote no again? I have a few cousins who voted no and when I asked them why they said "we fought for this country and I'm not giving any of it away...etc". I think they actually thought we were being annexed into the United states of Europe. Sometimes I'm not so sure about universal suffrage, there should be a test or something.

    I really hope that the yes proponents will not be on here in a years time saying 'I told you so'.


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    #1023
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Valmont wrote: »
    That sums it up for me. Is anyone else worried about what will happen if we vote no again?


    I'm very confident people will vote yes out of fear, particularly if the economy has not picked up.


    I'm certainly lumping on with odds of 4/7.


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    #1024
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Valmont wrote: »
    That sums it up for me. Is anyone else worried about what will happen if we vote no again? I have a few cousins who voted no and when I asked them why they said "we fought for this country and I'm not giving any of it away...etc". I think they actually thought we were being annexed into the United states of Europe. Sometimes I'm not so sure about universal suffrage, there should be a test or something.

    Although I'm voting no, I'm worried the EU might just now give us moeny anymore. They want this treaty to pass. They will try to pressure us.


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    #1025
    Jimpsta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭Jimpsta


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Although I'm voting no, I'm worried the EU might just now give us moeny anymore. They want this treaty to pass. They will try to pressure us.

    They already stopped the money a long time ago!


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    #1026
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    reasonto vote, no, fg/lab/ff, say this won't effect our neutrality relatively ,fair enough, now ask them whether they think wee're really neutral?


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    #1027
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Jimpsta wrote: »
    They already stopped the money a long time ago!



    We still get money from the EU.


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    #1028
    sheena1985
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭sheena1985


    walshb wrote: »
    So, if we agree that the majority of VOTERS did not read the treaty, then surely how can
    anyone VOTE yes to something they know nothing about??

    I voted NO, because I didn't know the precise details. I am being honest; but if you are
    telling me that the YES camp voted YES because they all understood the treaty, then that is being totally dishonest. The actual folks pressing for YES didn't know the treaty.

    Just having a read through this thread, some of it really annoyed me, i felt compelled to write a few things!!!

    One thing that really bugged me about the last vote, was the amount of people who voted no simply because they didn't know enough about it. You cannot expect to spoonfed everything in life, you should do the research before you go and vote on something that will affect how your country is run. (BTW, I would have the same opinion on people who voted yes for the same reason, so don't jump down my neck about that..)

    What does voting no 'because you don't know all the details' achieve? Were you hoping that they'd reproduce the treaty in a ladybird book for you?

    Also, to the person called 'niceirishfella', stop being such a prat, it's really cringeworthy to read your posts to that guy 'lord of cheese'....


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    #1029
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    sheena1985 wrote: »
    Also, to the person called 'niceirishfella', stop being such a prat
    Banned.


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    #1030
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    sheena1985 wrote: »
    Just having a read through this thread, some of it really annoyed me, i felt compelled to write a few things!!!

    One thing that really bugged me about the last vote, was the amount of people who voted no simply because they didn't know enough about it. You cannot expect to spoonfed everything in life, you should do the research before you go and vote on something that will affect how your country is run. (BTW, I would have the same opinion on people who voted yes for the same reason, so don't jump down my neck about that..)

    What does voting no 'because you don't know all the details' achieve? Were you hoping that they'd reproduce the treaty in a ladybird book for you?

    Also, to the person called 'niceirishfella', stop being such a prat, it's really cringeworthy to read your posts to that guy 'lord of cheese'....


    Think it could be argued that the "Yes" campaign could have done more to get their message across, when even some of them were unable to explain parts of the treaty, what chance do the rest of the people have


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    #1031
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Think it could be argued that the "Yes" campaign could have done more to get their message across, when even some of them were unable to explain parts of the treaty, what chance do the rest of the people have

    +1
    There was a lot of underestimation involved by the yes side. They did'nt really rate libertas or have the feeling on the ground in working class Ireland (the heartland of Sinn Fein in many ways) that gave them the big NO.
    Its going to be intersting to see how much tax payers money they spend and how they deploy the cash to get the Yes vote. Very interesting indeed.


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    #1032
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    but did you find an overwhelming reason to vote no that was actually true?

    Why do I need an overwhelming reason to vote 'No'? Its not as if my vote was automatically a 'Yes' vote and was turned. Voting 'No' just means I am voting against ratifying the treaty.

    Instead of questioning why I voted 'No', give me a reason to vote 'Yes' and I will consider it.

    EDIT: Because of my proximity to the above post, I feel I have to add: I find Libertas and other such organisations to be fear-mongering liars. They either twist or completely falsify the Treaty to frighten people into voting 'No'. This does not change my position however.


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    #1033
    handsomecake
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭handsomecake


    dont know what the lisbon treaty is about. i am 24 and have never registerd to vote before. however i will vote in this one and i will vote NO purely out of spite. making people vote twice ,what a chancer. didnt make us re -vote the general election they won last time the duplicitous *****


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    #1034
    FoldedShirt
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭FoldedShirt


    sheena1985 wrote: »

    One thing that really bugged me about the last vote, was the amount of people who voted no simply because they didn't know enough about it.

    One thing that bugged me was the amount of people that voted Yes for reasons which had nothing to do with Treaty. Check the Eurobarometer poll - something close to 20% voted Yes because "The EU has been good for Ireland in the past". What does that have to do with the Lisbon Treaty? Our membership of the EU was never in question.

    The Yes side seems to go on and on about No voters being stupid and voting for silly, irrelevant reasons. If you look at the Eurobarometer poll taken after the referendum, the Yes side is dominated by irrelevant arguments: "the EU has been good in the past", "I want to be in the heart of Europe" etc.


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    #1035
    WooPeeA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭WooPeeA


    handsomecake wrote: »
    dont know what the lisbon treaty is about. (...) and i will vote NO purely out of spite.

    Anyone else say people on NO side had real reasons? :pac:


    btw. You vote on the treaty for 500.000.000 people, not on your government decisions whatever they are right or wrong.


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    #1036
    handsomecake
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭handsomecake


    this treaty is a yes or no to fianna fail treaty. at least subconsciously it will be. the amount of disgruntled punters who will vote no because they lost their jobs, pension,medical card etc will be huge. im gonna nail my colours to the mast and say it will be no by an even bigger margin this time


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    #1037
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    handsomecake wrote: »
    this treaty is a yes or no to fianna fail treaty. at least subconsciously it will be. the amount of disgruntled punters who will vote no because they lost their jobs, pension,medical card etc will be huge. im gonna nail my colours to the mast and say it will be no by an even bigger margin this time

    It's got nothing to do with Fiana Fail... :/


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    #1038
    Acacia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭Acacia


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    It's got nothing to do with Fiana Fail... :/

    Very true. People should should base their vote (whether yes or no) on the treaty itself, not on the fact that this current government is , admittedly , crap.


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    #1039
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Otacon wrote: »
    Why do I need an overwhelming reason to vote 'No'? Its not as if my vote was automatically a 'Yes' vote and was turned. Voting 'No' just means I am voting against ratifying the treaty.

    Instead of questioning why I voted 'No', give me a reason to vote 'Yes' and I will consider it.

    because it makes the eu run more efficiently. it's not going to result in hand jobs for all and neither is it going to result in mass abortion. it's just not that interesting.

    you need a reason to vote no because the eu spent 5 years and millions of euro writing the treaty and it's not good enough to reject it "because". we have a responsibility as eu citizens to exercise our right to vote sensibly and not affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people "because"


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    #1040
    Valmont
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭Valmont


    handsomecake wrote: »
    dont know what the lisbon treaty is about. i am 24 and have never registerd to vote before. however i will vote in this one and i will vote NO purely out of spite. making people vote twice ,what a chancer. didnt make us re -vote the general election they won last time the duplicitous *****

    This is what common sense and rationality are up against. I'm definitely worried.


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    #1041
    handsomecake
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭handsomecake


    Valmont wrote: »
    This is what common sense and rationality are up against. I'm definitely worried.
    i agree chief. my vote will be petulant,not thought out, irrational and childish(despite the fact i would consider myself intelligent) but that is what they are gonna get in lisbon 2 ie; treat the nation like dunces and kids who didnt understand lisbon 1 and you will get dunces in lisbon 2. if i could write **** off on my voting slip i would. i agree i am completely in the wrong but this is whats gonna happen. mark my words


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    #1042
    ben bedlam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭ben bedlam


    Valmont wrote: »
    This is what common sense and rationality are up against. I'm definitely worried.

    How dare you question anyones motives for voting a particular way. We live in a democracy where it is everyones right to vote however, and whatever way they wish. That is protected by our constitution.


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    #1043
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Acacia wrote: »
    Very true. People should should base their vote (whether yes or no) on the treaty itself, not on the fact that this current government is , admittedly , crap.

    I really hope people do. Because unless Biffo and co stand aside we're in serious danger of rejecting the treaty again.


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    #1044
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    handsomecake wrote: »
    i agree chief. my vote will be petulant,not thought out, irrational and childish(despite the fact i would consider myself intelligent) but that is what they are gonna get in lisbon 2 ie; treat the nation like dunces and kids who didnt understand lisbon 1 and you will get dunces in lisbon 2. if i could write **** off on my voting slip i would. i agree i am completely in the wrong but this is whats gonna happen. mark my words

    in fairness, not understanding the treaty was the most common reason given for voting no


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    #1045
    handsomecake
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭handsomecake


    what the government dont realise is that we are not 4 million david mcwilliams'. we are normal angry emotional people. some educated well,some not. a lot disgruntled. a lot confused. a lot hard done by. thet dont care it we are voting on free strip clubs in every town , or free mars bars every monday,we are gonna vote no to anything in the current climate/mindset


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    #1046
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    ben bedlam wrote: »
    How dare you question anyones motives for voting a particular way. We live in a democracy where it is everyones right to vote however, and whatever way they wish. That is protected by our constitution.

    are you really saying that you've never objected to anyone's reasons for voting a certain way? really? fianna fail? sinn fein? against giving women the vote? against abolition? for apartheid? no?

    edit: is what he did not called "political debate" btw? how does one have a political debate if everyone has an inaliable right to vote whatever way they want and we're not allowed question their reasons for doing so?

    edit2: in fact isn't the freedom to question things like that one of the fundamental principles of democracy?


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    #1047
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    People, the govt. made a hash of it last time around and they know it. But seriously, Daclan Ganley's Libertas (AMERICAN ARMS) pumping large amounts of money into a no vote, that's hardly right either.

    Yes to lisbon


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    #1048
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Anyone watching Questions and Answers?

    Don't think I've ever seen FF and FG agreeing with each other. Scary. ^^


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    #1049
    Valmont
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭Valmont


    handsomecake wrote: »
    i agree i am completely in the wrong but this is whats gonna happen. mark my words

    You said it yourself and yet you still consider yourself intelligent.


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    #1050
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Its funny how no voters don't defend Libertas


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    #1051
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Voltwad wrote: »
    Its funny how no voters don't defend Libertas

    I'm sure if they knew who funded them they'd be delighted to. Too many unanswered questions.

    They smell nasty. I don't like Sinn Féin, but fúck it, they are what they are, and they're honest in their own way. Do I agree with 'em, no. But I can respect their opinions.


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