Lisbon 2: prepare to bend over and recieve ur destiny!

Nehaxak

Sam Vimes wrote: »

don't feed the troll

Says the troll.

I'm still voting NO btw, you're only enforcing my views in that regards.

Nehaxak

Sam Vimes wrote: »

except when no means "i had no idea what it was about and wasn't arsed finding out so ignorance and fear made me vote no!!!"

"but Judge, I wasn't sure if she really meant no. I knew what was good for her and I gave it too her good and hard"
"She still said no"
"but, she was loving it"
"She still said no"
"They all said no, but I know what's good for them, I'm in the right here and you're all wrong"
"They still said no"
"but..."
"No means no, means no, means no"
"but..."
"ten years, get out of my courtroom, Guards, take him away"
"She still wanted to say yes, I know it, she was screaming no but she really meant yes..."
"I didn't, I said no and I meant no, you've ruined my life"
"but..."

So on and so forth...those people never give up and never admit they're wrong. They're right and everyone else is wrong. Propaganda with the ability to control the media just makes it easier for them to do this.

No, means NO !

Sam Vimes

Nehaxak wrote: »

"but Judge, I wasn't sure if she really meant no. I knew what was good for her and I gave it too her good and hard"
"She still said no"
"but, she was loving it"
"She still said no"
"They all said no, but I know what's good for them, I'm in the right here and you're all wrong"
"They still said no"
"but..."
"No means no, means no, means no"
"but..."
"ten years, get out of my courtroom, Guards, take him away"
"She still wanted to say yes, I know it, she was screaming no but she really meant yes..."
"I didn't, I said no and I meant no, you've ruined my life"
"but..."

So on and so forth...those people never give up and never admit they're wrong. They're right and everyone else is wrong. Propaganda with the ability to control the media just makes it easier for them to do this.

No, means NO !

but judge he was falling off the edge of a cliff and was hanging on by a finger. i asked if he wanted help and he said no. i respected his wishes and he fell

walshb

Sam Vimes wrote: »

except when no means "i had no idea what it was about and wasn't arsed finding out so ignorance and fear made me vote no!!!"

This arrogant and pompous attitude that the NO voters ONLY voted NO because they didn't understand; but the YES voted YES because they did, is why again, I will vote NO.

Oh, and I do understand the treaty!

Sam Vimes

seriously Nehaxak are you just taking ths piss or are you actually trying to make points here? it's like trying to have a political discussion with someone with ADD

justcallmetex

walshb wrote: »

This arrogant and pompous attitude that the NO voters ONLY voted NO because they didn't understand; but the YES voted YES because they did, is why again, I will vote NO.

Oh, and I do understand the treaty!

Agreed 100% it's such a lame effort.

Nehaxak

Sam Vimes wrote: »

but judge he was falling off the edge of a cliff and was hanging on by a finger. i asked if he wanted help and he said no. i respected his wishes and he fell

"wtf, let go of my finger"
"but I want to save you"
"I don't want to be saved, I want to die, let go you muppet"
"but I know best, I know you really want to live"
"I just tried to jump off a 400 foot cliff you fool, wtf would I do that for if I wanted to live ? Let go and let me die"
"Well, before I let you go, can I convince you to cast a yes vote beforehand"
"Eh, sure thing"
"Great, I'll just go grab my bag and get the..."
"AAaahhhhhhhhhhh"
"Oh, oh wow, I forgot I was saving you...ah well"

"Dude you just pushed that guy off the cliff"
"No I didn't"
"yes you did"
"No"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"yes"
"no"
"wait what ?"
"Haha you said yes"
"No I didn't"
"Yes you did"
"No"
"yes"

lalala
:rolleyes:

justcallmetex

Sam Vimes wrote: »

seriously Nehaxak are you just taking ths piss or are you actually trying to make points here? it's like trying to have a political discussion with someone with ADD

He's making the point that no means no simple really, but I do notice a few folks out there do have difficulty such as yourself for an example

Sam Vimes

walshb wrote: »

This arrogant and pompous attitude that the NO voters ONLY voted NO because they didn't understand; but the YES voted YES because they did, is why again, I will vote NO.

OMFG for the millionth time, a report was compiled of the reasons for voting no. the results in the report showed that there was nothing in the treaty that could change to satisfy those people because the reasons had f*ck all to do with the treaty. and of course one of the most common reasons was simply i didn't understand it. you know that pretty much no one underastood it and i know that too and to pretend otherwise is just ridiculous. this is not pomposity, this is stating the results of a report

and at no point did i ever suggest that people who voted yes understood it. i'm sure they were just as clueless as the no voters. both of my parents voted yes and hadn't any idea what it was about. i kept asking my dad why he was voting yes and he just kept saying "i remember this country in the 50s". i kept pointing out that the treaty wasn't a time machine and no matter which way we voted we wouldn't go back to the 50s but he wouldn't listen

this is the difference for me is that we're members of the eu and representatives from 27 countries have spent 5 years and millions of euro working on this treaty and they believe that this treaty is necessary and good for the union. with that in mind i don't need to be convinced to vote yes, i need to be convinced to vote no and "fianna fail are bastards" just isn't good enough

walshb wrote: »

Oh, and I do understand the treaty!

that makes you one of about ten people in europe it seems

walshb

Sam Vimes wrote: »

OMFG for the millionth time, a report was compiled of the reasons for voting no. the results in the report showed that there was nothing in the treaty that could change to satisfy those people because the reasons had f*ck all to do with the treaty. and of course one of the most common reasons was simply i didn't understand it. you know that pretty much no one underastood it and i know that too and to pretend otherwise is just ridiculous. this is not pomposity, this is stating the results of a report

and at no point did i ever suggest that people who voted yes understood it. i'm sure they were just as clueless as the no voters. both of my parents voted yes and hadn't any idea what it was about. i kept asking my dad why he was voting yes and he just kept saying "i remember this country in the 50s". i kept pointing out that the treaty wasn't a time machine and no matter which way we voted we wouldn't go back to the 50s but he wouldn't listen

this is the difference for me is that we're members of the eu and representatives from 27 countries have spent 5 years and millions of euro working on this treaty and they believe that this treaty is necessary and good for the union. with that in mind i don't need to be convinced to vote yes, i need to be convinced to vote no and "fianna fail are bastards" just isn't good enough



that makes you one of about ten people in europe it seems

Arrogant, pompous and aggressive; that's a definite NO!:D

whatisayis

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Corporation tax isn't an area of EU compitance, this doesn't apply.

andrew wrote: »

What grievences to people have about things that are in the Treaty? What will it take to convince people that certain things which they believe are in the treaty (like Corporation tax) aren't in the treaty?

Under Article 116, A complaint can be lodged if a member can be assumed to be distorting the conditions of competition in the internal market.
The procedure to do this is stipulated in Article 294 (Ordinary Legislative Procedures). In the Lisbon Treaty a provision has been added to this article whereby if a group of member states request something then paragraph 9 of Art 294 does NOT apply. Paragraph 9 calls for a unanimous vote.
If a group of states, led by Germany and France, go down this route to attempt to enforce their stated agenda on Corporate taxation (which they say is distorting the conditions of competition) the outcome will be decided by majority vote.
And that is why, several days after the No vote, the French Financial Minister put the plans on hold and said "thanks to good old Ireland".

Sam Vimes

justcallmetex wrote: »

He's making the point that no means no simple really, but I do notice a few folks out there do have difficulty such as yourself for an example

the reason i have difficulty is that everyone's saying no but no one can give me an actual reason why. they just keeping spouting libertas lies and anti fianna fail and eu rhetoric

justcallmetex

So we can look forward to Lisbon 3 cause we were ignorant to say no 1st time and a protest vote the next time round what will be the reason for Ireand rejecting the Treaty a 3rd time??

Sam Vimes

i give up


gone---->

Ckal

Sam Vimes wrote: »

OMFG for the millionth time, a report was compiled of the reasons for voting no. the results in the report showed that there was nothing in the treaty that could change to satisfy those people because the reasons had f*ck all to do with the treaty. and of course one of the most common reasons was simply i didn't understand it. you know that pretty much no one underastood it and i know that too and to pretend otherwise is just ridiculous. this is not pomposity, this is stating the results of a report

Eurobarometer - "For the 'yes' voters, the main motivation was the feeling that it was in Ireland’s best interest (32%) and that Ireland benefits from the EU (19%). Helping the economy (9%) and keeping Ireland engaged in Europe (9%) were other reasons." - Can you tell me how most of that links to the treaty? It links to the EU, but not specifically the treaty.

EDIT: "Over half of the people who did not vote in the referendum said this was due to a lack of understanding of the issues." Well look at that!

Sam Vimes wrote: »

that makes you one of about ten people in europe it seems

Pfft. Because Yes voters know what the other 500 million people in the EU think. Yes, that makes perfect sense.


As regards the Tax Harmonization. If we have vetoed it, what conditions have the EU thrown at us?

walshb

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i give up


gone---->

If you are so passionate, why don't you give us reason as to why we should vote YES. I
have seen many many reasons to VOTE NO posted on this very thread; maybe you need to read a bit more of the thread. I posted several reasons

walshb

I will tell you a damn good reason now. The first vote being rejected and not respected is
the best reason in the world and tells you exactly what sort of folk are running Europe!

Bunch of bully boys who don't get the answer they want and they won't accept it?
That is enough alone for me!

Sam Vimes

sorry, not replying. cba anymore, i'm sick of banging my head against a wall

localnutjob

!!!! VIVA THE REFER-LECTION !!!!

:D:D:D

justcallmetex

Sam Vimes wrote: »

the reason i have difficulty is that everyone's saying no but no one can give me an actual reason why. they just keeping spouting libertas lies and anti fianna fail and eu rhetoric

well here's one we voted b4 said no and we were ignored.

whatisayis

Sam Vimes wrote: »

sorry, not replying. cba anymore, i'm sick of banging my head against a wall

I apologise Sam. I forgot to inlclude you in my post #1212. Or maybe you read it and that is why you have decided to give up?

walshb

Sam Vimes wrote: »

sorry, not replying. cba anymore, i'm sick of banging my head against a wall

I am beginning to think you are a Europe MEP or something. You are acting that way!:p

Sam Vimes

whatisayis wrote: »

I apologise Sam. I forgot to inlclude you in my post #1212. Or maybe you read it and that is why you have decided to give up?

didn't read it, don't care. i'm gone

whatisayis

Sam Vimes wrote: »

didn't read it, don't care. i'm gone

Ah go on, give it one last shot!

ejmaztec

Sam Vimes wrote: »

didn't read it, don't care. i'm gone

Thank you for your knowledgeable and intelligent contributions.

Unfortunately, there are quite a few "Helen Kellers" on here who are too arrogant to admit their ignorance.

Giving some people a vote is akin to giving a monkey a hand-grenade to play with.

walshb

ejmaztec wrote: »

Thank you for your knowledgeable and intelligent contributions.

Unfortunately, there are quite a few "Helen Kellers" on here who are too arrogant to admit their ignorance.

Giving some people a vote is akin to giving a monkey a hand-grenade to play with.

Are you praising Sam or dissing Sam?

constitutionus

justcallmetex wrote: »

So we can look forward to Lisbon 3 cause we were ignorant to say no 1st time and a protest vote the next time round what will be the reason for Ireand rejecting the Treaty a 3rd time??

it'll be the "Mrs Doyle" tactic.

because our elected representatives have the right to put it to us again

and again.

and again.

and AGAIN.

so essentially you'l be getting one every year to the tune of "ah go on" "go on" "go on" "go on" .as one of the lads on politics.ie has christened it, your looking at....


the "neverendum !"

Cow Moolester

justcallmetex wrote: »

well here's one we voted b4 said no and we were ignored.

We weren't ignored.
They gave us legal guaruntees on the things that held us back from passing the Lisbon Treaty and I'm sure they'll be making a better effort now to inform people of what the Lisbon Treaty is about.

I mean why are people saying "Oh they ignored us..they are making us do the referendum again"...Sure it'd be unfair if they were making us vote again on the exact same terms as the last one but they aren't.

The rest of the treaty is pretty fair and will help make the EU more efficient but for the few points that worried Irish voters, they gave legal guaruntees to safeguard our best interests.

Jimpsta

Sam Vimes wrote: »

seriously Nehaxak are you just taking ths piss or are you actually trying to make points here? it's like trying to have a political discussion with someone with ADD

oh RLY? 0_o

ejmaztec

walshb wrote: »

Are you praising Sam or dissing Sam?

It's quite obvious that I'm praising him. I'm very concerned that you can't understand that. :eek: