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Lisbon 2: prepare to bend over and recieve ur destiny!

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    #1322
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,705 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    A very interesting exercise would be to suggest to the Irish government, that we, the Irish people would like to hold another general election early next year, even though we only had one last year, we know that, but we feel that it's "very important" that we have another general election next year because this is after all "what the people want" and let's not forget, "we are talking about the health of country here and the future of our economy"...

    Do you think we could possibly maniulate them into obliging us with another general election next year, because you know, "we really need to get this right and it's starting to look like the decision we made last year during the general election is now seriously harming us and our economy and bringing us back to the 1980's"!?!?!

    Not a f*cking hope!!!

    Enda Kenny is not the man to lead FG and hence if the election was held next year - FG aren't going to get in - so who would? the only chance of change of government, is change in FG leadership - so why not just get rid of kenny - and then 4/5 years down the line you'll have a leader who will be able to have a chance to get the votes - but by then the "mess" will probably be sorted out or else the worse will be over..


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    #1323
    My name is Mud
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭My name is Mud


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    I am entitled to make whatever judgements I wish on the government

    Save those judgements for an election then


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    #1324
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,705 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    The next opportunity I'll have to vote against this government is the next Lisbon referendum. I don't like this government and neither does the rest of the country it would appear. Do you think if we asked them to re-run the general election last year, maybe early next year, because we have obviously made a mistake, do you think they would run that election again!?!?!?!?!

    No, well when they will, come back to me on Lisbon, until they do, I'll be voting them out at the next Lisbon referendum... If Lisbon is rejected again, this government is gone, so it's time to sort out our own back garden before we go trying to sort out Europe...

    what government are you talkin about- cause look at the parties - FG want the Yes vote - Labour want to vote Yes, FF want a yes vote - so if your voting no to Lisbon - what party you going to vote for in the next general election???


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    #1325
    My name is Mud
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭My name is Mud


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    The next opportunity I'll have to vote against this government is the next Lisbon referendum.

    Er...no. That would be something called an election.

    You wont take down the Irish government in the Lisbon referendum. Unless you are a mutant. Then you can take down a whole rake of things. With lasers.


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    #1326
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    Enda Kenny is not the man to lead FG and hence if the election was held next year - FG aren't going to get in - so who would? the only chance of change of government, is change in FG leadership - so why not just get rid of kenny - and then 4/5 years down the line you'll have a leader who will be able to have a chance to get the votes - but by then the "mess" will probably be sorted out or else the worse will be over..

    I don't have a political allegiance here one way or the other. What I know is that we have an absolute team of IDIOTS running this country. I hear what you say about Enda Kenny and I've been saying the same thing up until recently.

    Our problem here is that we have not just one idiot running the country but in fact three idiots running the place. Now maybe Enda kenny isn't Barak Obama, I accept that, but I'd be happier with Richard Bruton in Finance, at least we'd be down to one capable person at possibly two idiots as opposed to three idiots like we have at the present.


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    #1327
    My name is Mud
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭My name is Mud


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    What I know is that we have an absolute team of IDIOTS running this country

    I'll give you one guess who voted for these idiots...

    Darragh29 - you should run in the local elections. Seriously. I reckon you could get alot of votes, and subscriptions to your newsletter.


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    #1328
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    what government are you talkin about- cause look at the parties - FG want the Yes vote - Labour want to vote Yes, FF want a yes vote - so if your voting no to Lisbon - what party you going to vote for in the next general election???

    We have a problem here in this country called a f*cking atrocious government right now. My view on this is that in order to get rid of this calamity that is hanging over our nation, we need a general election. The only way I can see this happening is if this government lose the next Lisbon referendum.

    We have problems here right now that make Lisbon pale into insignificance...

    This government have our priorities completely completely wrong. Lisbon should not even be on our radar right now.


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    #1329
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,705 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Richard Bruton should be in charge of FG - thats the first step in changing the government, kenny's not going to get in so no point wasting the next few years having him as leader.

    but from a FF point of view - i think that michael martin is the man to sort out the mess - everyone thought cowen was the next leader - well he's makin a mess of it and cannot stand pressure,

    Remember the smokin ban - martin face so much pressure - but he stuck to his guns and i think that everyone would now agree that it was a great idea.

    A leader needs to stand over everything he does with conviction but also much have the support of all the people, cowen is lacking the first part and kenny is lackin in the latter, so its either martin or bruton...


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    #1330
    My name is Mud
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭My name is Mud


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    we need a general election. The only way I can see this happening is if this government lose the next Lisbon referendum.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face

    Also, a Lisbon referendum loss will do ZERO progess towards a general election. Zero.


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    #1331
    Kashkai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭Kashkai


    Just my opinion mind but we elect PUBLIC REPRESENTATIVES to er, represent the public funnily enough. Now if the electorate, rightly or wrongly (immaterial to my argument here) voted no to Lisbon, then surely the PUBLIC REPRESENTATIVES should support the decision of the PUBLIC who they REPRESENT. However, all of the tossers in the Dail (with the exception of the Shinners), be they FF, FG, Lab campaigned for the treaty and will no doubt campaign for it again (and thus ignore the wishes of the PUBLIC who they REPRESENT) as they like to think that they'll be in a position at some point to hob nob with the other EU heads in Brussels at some point. Kenny or Gilmore are not going to campaign against Lisbon if at some point they might, and I emphasis might, be in Government and will then have an awkward situation when they sit around the table with Merkel, Brown, Sarko etc. I suppose if we Irish had some real backbone and believed in ourselves, we would turn up in Brussels bold as brass and say -

    "How's it goin' boys. The lads and lassies at home said Feck Off to your treaty so I guess its a dead duck like the constitution you French and Dutch threw out a couple of years back."

    Then they could sit back and eyeball the rest of them and let them seethe knowing they could do damn all about it. But no, the chicken sh!t cowards we have to represent us were gobsmacked by the Lisbon result and no doubt sh!tted themselves at the thought of facing the powers that be in Brussels.

    I didn't vote last time around but I will vote next time and it'll be a NO. Not because I'll be annoyed at the Government for their ineptitude at everything they do (which I am), or for the "opposition" cravenly seeking a YES vote against the electorate's wishes (which I am), or for the unholy alliance of big business/unions/media campaigning for a YES with no credible counter arguments for an even handed debate (which I am) but because the Irish people voted NO last time and their voice was ignored by the "democratic" institutions of Dail Eireann and Brussels. If these feckers will accept the No vote of the French and Dutch but browbeat us for doing the same, then perhaps we would be better off outside the EU where we could at least retain our sovereignity and dignity. The fact that we would also be in a position to now devalue our currency adjust our interest rates etc to suit our own economic conditions would be a major plus as well.


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    #1332
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    You see this is the intrasigence you get from the yes side. I can vote for or against this treaty for any reason or indeed for no reason at all. This is my entitlement as a citizen. I am under no obligation whatsoever ever to put on my blinkers and just look at the treaty, I am entitled to make whatever judgements I wish on the government that is asking me to vote and I can make what ever judgements I wish and involve these judgements in whatever decision I make.

    exactly. i'm voting yes because i like cheddar cheese but not edam. damn edam!!! It's my entitlement as a citizen


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    #1333
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    My name is Mud wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face

    Also, a Lisbon referendum loss will do ZERO progess towards a general election. Zero.

    In your opinion...


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    #1334
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    In your opinion...

    do you think it's fair to affect the lives of 500 million people because you have a beef with brian cowen?

    especially the action you're taking in order to achieve your goal will do absolutely nothing to help you achieve that goal


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    #1335
    Ckal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 422 ✭✭Ckal


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    do you think it's fair to affect the lives of 500 million people because you have a beef with brian cowen?

    Here we go again...


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    #1336
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Ckal wrote: »
    Here we go again...

    no not at all. i'm just popping in every now and then when i see a post that's particularly worth responding to. and that one was a doozy :)


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    #1337
    Jimpsta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭Jimpsta


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    didn't read it, don't care. i'm gone
    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    i give up


    gone---->
    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    sorry, not replying. cba anymore, i'm sick of banging my head against a wall

    End quote...


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    #1338
    justcallmetex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭justcallmetex


    badabinbadaboom wrote: »
    I think I might actually vote yes next time round.
    Every time someone gives a reasoned argument to vote yes, someone just posts a link to indymedia.ie or wise up journal or some other unbalanced load of ****.
    Its true the EU is aload of bolox but thats not what we voted on. If you want out of the EU then vote for an anti-EU party nest General election.
    I was a no voter before I started reading this thread but your all so concerned about superstates and ilumanati etc etc etc I think I might vote yes just to scare the crap out of ye, and of course all the good arguments given for voting yes anyway.

    Trying to make a link between voting no and being a conspiracy nut are we? Keep saying it enough and a few morons might start to believe you. You did not vote no last time round your a Yes man to the bone


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    #1339
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    Who are the "unelected elite"?
    I'm wondering who they are too.
    This question has been asked many times in this thread and we still don't have an ans...

    WooPeeA wrote: »
    Well maybe I used too strong words. I meant commissioners and councils.

    They are chosen by people who, in fact, were chosen by ourselves (national parliaments), but not directly by us, which I oppose. That's why I called them "unelected".
    Wait. So elected representatives are the unelected elite.
    I see. This is highly interesting stuff.

    Would they be in the same boat as the TDs MEPs Town councillors unelected people that libertas refer to in their propaganda?
    Libertas, a body headed by an English born man who is currently the CEO of a US military defence contractor, who will lose money if oil is traded in Euros.
    A man who has ties to an institute with ties to Richard Nixon.
    A man who has military contracts with the Pentagon.
    A man who owns a company whose agenda is to carry on the business of a European political party.
    A man who is quite rich, but unelected.

    Yeah. Let's listen to him.

    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Here's a few for you to mull over...

    (1) I don't trust the people who are pushing me to vote yes.

    (2) I don't respond well to threats.

    (3) I already voted no last year and don't like having to repeat myself.

    (4) I'm protesting against the current government with a no vote and make absolutely no apologies whatsoever for doing so.

    Why are you protesting against the government and what does your problem with the government have to do with the Lisbon treaty?


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    #1340
    FionnBaguh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭FionnBaguh


    I'll be voting no again, and this time just in spite of bad democracy.


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    #1341
    justcallmetex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭justcallmetex


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    Who are the "unelected elite"?

    The ones that get bail outs. The ones who took your Government aside told them how much they want and got it very next f*&kin day. While we're told of education cut backs and health cut backs and incereased VAT.


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    #1342
    My name is Mud
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭My name is Mud


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    In your opinion...

    Nope, this is a fact.

    You will not get a general election based on a "no" vote to Lisbon.


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    #1343
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Jimpsta wrote: »
    End quote...
    Ckal wrote: »
    Here we go again...
    Sam Vimes wrote:
    no not at all. i'm just popping in every now and then when i see a post that's particularly worth responding to. and that one was a doozy :)

    end quote....


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    #1344
    FoldedShirt
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭FoldedShirt


    <3BeingIN6th wrote: »
    I'm wondering who they are too.
    This question has been asked many times in this thread and we still don't have an ans...



    Wait. So elected representatives are the unelected elite.
    I see. This is highly interesting stuff.

    Would they be in the same boat as the TDs MEPs Town councillors unelected people that libertas refer to in their propaganda?
    Libertas, a body headed by an English born man who is currently the CEO of a US military defence contractor, who will lose money if oil is traded in Euros.
    A man who has ties to an institute with ties to Richard Nixon.
    A man who has military contracts with the Pentagon.
    A man who owns a company whose agenda is to carry on the business of a European political party.
    A man who is quite rich, but unelected.

    Yeah. Let's listen to him.




    Why are you protesting against the government and what does your problem with the government have to do with the Lisbon treaty?

    I get it now. It's legitimate to vote Yes because you don't like Libertas but it's not legitimate to No because you don't like the government.


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    #1345
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    FionnBaguh wrote: »
    I'll be voting no again, and this time just in spite of bad democracy.
    That just doesn't make sense.

    justcallmetex wrote: »
    The ones that get bail outs. The ones who took your Government aside told them how much they want and got it very next f*&kin day. While we're told of education cut backs and health cut backs and incereased VAT.

    Names and proof, please.
    No conjecture or hearsay. Just solid proof.
    Can you provide that?


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    #1346
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    FoldedShirt wrote: »
    I get it now. It's legitimate to vote Yes because you don't like Libertas but it's not legitimate to No because you don't like the government.

    /facepalm
    posts like this remind me why stopped posting in the thread


    /gone again


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    #1347
    Ckal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 422 ✭✭Ckal


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    no not at all. i'm just popping in every now and then when i see a post that's particularly worth responding to. and that one was a doozy :)

    Oh! I didn't mean "here we go again" as in it's you again. I just hate the "affecting the lives on 500 million people" line. :p


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    #1348
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    FoldedShirt wrote: »
    I get it now. It's legitimate to vote Yes because you don't like Libertas but it's not legitimate to No because you don't like the government.
    Did you ever have an option to vote for Libertas?


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    #1349
    i57dwun4yb1pt8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭i57dwun4yb1pt8


    I too will be voting NO so this government is taken out ,

    if thats what it takes to get rid of them then fine so be it .

    this bunch of morons WILL FALL if lisbon 2 is no again .

    guaren-fcuking-teed

    Im looking forward to it .


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    #1350
    justcallmetex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭justcallmetex


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    Enda Kenny is not the man to lead FG and hence if the election was held next year - FG aren't going to get in - so who would? the only chance of change of government, is change in FG leadership - so why not just get rid of kenny - and then 4/5 years down the line you'll have a leader who will be able to have a chance to get the votes - but by then the "mess" will probably be sorted out or else the worse will be over..

    I'm actually looking forward to voting for a canditate who's never been a TD


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    #1351
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    DaDumTish wrote: »
    I too will be voting NO so this government is taken out ,

    if thats what it takes to get rid of them then fine so be it .

    this bunch of morons WILL FALL if lisbon 2 is no again .

    guaren-fcuking-teed

    Im looking forward to it .
    You do realise hat the only political party who are opposed to the Lisbon treaty are Sinn Fein, don't you?

    Are you willing to put them in government instead?

    Christ, I don't even think they have a representative for my area, so even if I wanted to vote for them, I couldn't.

    So if the government does call a general election, you must be aware that any other coalition will call for another vote on Lisbon.


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