TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

marno21

L1011 wrote: »

...that nobody goes in to anyway. The MSAs generate new food business - all they can possibly take away is minuscule margin fuel business.

While the utter crapness of the MSA in question probably makes this unique, the franchiser in Mother Hubbards in Cashel told me that the fake-MSA opening there actually increased their trade - people tried to use the MSA and couldn't park!

In all my half a million km+ long distance driving I can give one single example of somewhere the motorway network stopped me going to - Mother Hubbards Oranmore N6 as it was so far offline - and none that the MSAs stopped. Whereas the Castlebellingham MSA probably had more of an impact on my local newsagent in Maynooth stopping me grabbing breakfast there!

Yeah. I never have any intention of going into Newmarket for food, or fuel. If I'm desperate for diesel I use the Topaz not far from the N19 junction.

The new MSA will provide a fair few jobs in that area, would they not rather the jobs stay around there rather than sending all those jobs to Crusheen?

Funny how great progress is being made on the Tranche 4 MSAs, while none of the Tranche 2 MSAs are open yet, and neither of the two roads for the Tranche 3 MSAs have even been built yet.

Re M8 J8 MSA: shocking place. There's literally nothing in the shop bar a basic Topaz shop that takes up about 4x as much room as it needs to, and about 15 parking spaces.

L1011

There's a seating area upstairs and the deli can give you stuff on plates! Thats about it, though

marno21

http://connachttribune.ie/preliminary-design-works-at-site-of-new-m6-services-099/

Stupid ****. There's a perfectly good service area 10 minutes down the road.

D Trent

marno21 wrote: »

http://connachttribune.ie/preliminary-design-works-at-site-of-new-m6-services-099/

Stupid ****. There's a perfectly good service area 10 minutes down the road.

Except this TII one will be accessed by NB and SB M18 M17 traffic aswell as M6 traffic

marno21

D Trent wrote: »

Except this TII one will be accessed by NB and SB M18 M17 traffic aswell as M6 traffic

There is also a MSA planned for the M18 around J11. The M17 is not going to warrant enough through traffic for an MSA and this MSA is also very close to Galway.

Money that could be spent better elsewhere.

loyatemu

what's the latest on Gorey - passed it on my way to and from the ferry last month, still no sign of it opening...

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

D Trent

loyatemu wrote: »

what's the latest on Gorey - passed it on my way to and from the ferry last month, still no sign of it opening...

Dept of Justice has decided they're going to house the syrians that are coming in Nov there
It's not gonna be an MSA at all now.

At least the building will be used for something as opposed to staying empty

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

VincePP

loyatemu wrote: »

what's the latest on Gorey - passed it on my way to and from the ferry last month, still no sign of it opening...

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/consortium-objects-to-ruling-on-motorway-service-stations-1.2389201

It forms part of the dispute between Topaz and Applegreen/TOP consortium.

Its scheduled for hearing in September I think.

serfboard

VincePP wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/consortium-objects-to-ruling-on-motorway-service-stations-1.2389201

It forms part of the dispute between Topaz and Applegreen/TOP consortium.

Its scheduled for hearing in September I think.

Here's a puzzler for you :

If a court case is scheduled for a hearing this September, and, last October, it "was admitted to the fast-track Commercial Court list", how long would it take if it was not admitted to the "fast-track" list? :rolleyes:

BoatMad

serfboard wrote: »

Here's a puzzler for you :

If a court case is scheduled for a hearing this September, and, last October, it "was admitted to the fast-track Commercial Court list", how long would it take if it was not admitted to the "fast-track" list? :rolleyes:

of course given the appellant is Applegreen and they have a nice functioning service area a few Kms north, sure of course they'd want it resolved fast

marno21

http://galwaybayfm.ie/councillors-submit-concerns-m6-service-station-plan-transport-infrastructure-ireland/

Dublin-Galway MSA #3 in the bad books again. Still none on the M7 or M8.

flazio

marno21 wrote: »

http://galwaybayfm.ie/councillors-submit-concerns-m6-service-station-plan-transport-infrastructure-ireland/

Dublin-Galway MSA #3 in the bad books again. Still none on the M7 or M8.

I suspect Pat McDonagh got involved behind the scenes but to be honest, I wouldn't blame him.

VincePP

marno21 wrote: »

Still none on the M7 or M8.

A few years ago the NRA (now TII) made the sensible decision and included the off motorway services in their planning - it would be ridiculous to ignore them and build white elephants.

We're not a densely populated country. We're also not a big country so hotels and mega services liek they have in the UK are not needed.

M7/N7 you have operational or planned as follows

Goffs - Massive service area with hotel and restaurants.
Naas - Big apple green service area planned for old donnelly mirror site
Kildare Town - servcie area in plannign for Modus media site opposite Kildare Village
Junction 14 - site open
Portlaoise - Hotel and food area with plenty of parking
Moneygall - Obama Plaza
Birdhill - Applegreen.

As a frequent traveller from Naas to Kerry, there are more than enough stops on the route. Non they aren't mega araes like the UK - but at the same time we simply do not ahve the traffic volumes for those types of MSA's

marno21

VincePP wrote: »

A few years ago the NRA (now TII) made the sensible decision and included the off motorway services in their planning - it would be ridiculous to ignore them and build white elephants.

We're not a densely populated country. We're also not a big country so hotels and mega services liek they have in the UK are not needed.

M7/N7 you have operational or planned as follows

Goffs - Massive service area with hotel and restaurants.
Naas - Big apple green service area planned for old donnelly mirror site
Kildare Town - servcie area in plannign for Modus media site opposite Kildare Village
Junction 14 - site open
Portlaoise - Hotel and food area with plenty of parking
Moneygall - Obama Plaza
Birdhill - Applegreen.

As a frequent traveller from Naas to Kerry, there are more than enough stops on the route. Non they aren't mega araes like the UK - but at the same time we simply do not ahve the traffic volumes for those types of MSA's

If this is the case, why is the M6 one being opened just 2 junctions away from a large Obama Plaza type area not long open at J16?

I'll agree that M7 services are good nowadays, but for those travelling on the M7/M8 Dublin-Cork, J14 Monastarevin is well over capacity and the place at Portlaoise has no fuel. The M8 is quite poor for services, the J8 one is pathetic.

The M18 needs services more than the N6 corridor needs another area. They'd be better off getting the current M6 build but not opened service area up and running first

D Trent

marno21 wrote: »

If this is the case, why is the M6 one being opened just 2 junctions away from a large Obama Plaza type area not long open at J16?

I'll agree that M7 services are good nowadays, but for those travelling on the M7/M8 Dublin-Cork, J14 Monastarevin is well over capacity and the place at Portlaoise has no fuel. The M8 is quite poor for services, the J8 one is pathetic.

The M18 needs services more than the N6 corridor needs another area. They'd be better off getting the current M6 build but not opened service area up and running first

The MSA isn't built, it's only the on and off ramps and flyover that is built.

serfboard

marno21 wrote: »

http://galwaybayfm.ie/councillors-submit-concerns-m6-service-station-plan-transport-infrastructure-ireland/

Galway Bay FM wrote:

Transport Infrastructure Ireland says it looks forward to formally hearing from the councillors.

Translation: TII looks forward to telling local councillors to get back down to the sticks, you bunch of ignoramuses.

Galway Bay FM wrote:

Councillors are to contact Transport Infrastructure Ireland with concerns over a controversial planned service station on the M6 between Athenry and Oranmore.

Why is it controversial?

Galway Bay FM wrote:

Local area Councillors have raised concerns that the new service station would be in competition with the new Galway Plaza development at the Loughrea junction on the M6.

What's this now? Are Galway County Councillors elected to represent people, or have they now become taxpayer-funded lobbyists on behalf of multimillionaire Pat McDonagh?

Galway Bay FM wrote:

Transport Infrastructure Ireland says ... that under the European motorway network standards, there is a requirement to provide a level of services with specific criteria.

Here's how the meeting will go. TII will say: We have to provide online services every 100km or so. That's what we're doing. Whatever any private concern chooses to do, and gets planning permission for, offline, is none of our concern.

Now feck off.

Reuben1210

serfboard wrote: »

Translation: TII looks forward to telling local councillors to get back down to the sticks, you bunch of ignoramuses.


Why is it controversial?

What's this now? Are Galway County Councillors elected to represent people, or have they now become taxpayer-funded lobbyists on behalf of multimillionaire Pat McDonagh?

Here's how the meeting will go. TII will say: We have to provide online services every 100km or so. That's what we're doing. Whatever any private concern chooses to do, and gets planning permission for, offline, is none of our concern.

Now feck off.

I hope you're right - that stinks of Pat McDonough getting the boys to do him a solid!

flazio

I'd be with Pat on this one, while the NRA were faffing about picking their site Pat just got on with it, built and opened his site within a few months and it's doing very well.

marno21

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=102309&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Tender out for site investigation for the M18 MSA.

road_high

Work's started on the M9 J5 N80 one. Think it's a Topaz...so going to be 3 within 50 km of eachother once Kilcullen gets built.

Carawaystick

VincePP wrote: »

A few years ago the NRA (now TII) made the sensible decision and included the off motorway services in their planning - it would be ridiculous to ignore them and build white elephants.

Was this before or after they built the service area at Ballough on the M1 2km from a service station at Courtlough at J5 on the M1?

marno21

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/86730/new-oranmore-petrol-station-a-total-waste-of-public-money

annfield1978

Offline Service Area proposed by Topaz at Junction 5 (Pace) on the M3 refused planning due to Wastewater concerns and the assimilative capacity of the receiving stream

cros13

VincePP wrote: »

A few years ago the NRA (now TII) made the sensible decision and included the off motorway services in their planning - it would be ridiculous to ignore them and build white elephants.

The off-line services should never have been granted planning in the first place. Pure gombeen pan handling bull.

VincePP wrote: »

M7/N7 you have operational or planned as follows

I do 50,000km a year on the M7 alone. Proper MSAs are badly needed.

VincePP wrote: »

Goffs

Not even remotely accessible.

VincePP wrote: »

Naas

Stuck in planning because the junction is over capacity already. Esp. since the Kerry group buildings in millennium park opened with several thousand employees now using those juntions. Planning for Kerry group recommended an additional junction between 9 and 10 but instead there are traffic jams morning and evening leading to both junctions. About to get worse as junction 10 is being rebuilt as part of the widening.

VincePP wrote: »

Kildare Town

haven't seen the plans, but that junction is occasionally backed up to the motorway and is the primary exit for kildare itself.

VincePP wrote: »

Junction 14 - site open

And well over capacity. Also quite poorly designed.

VincePP wrote: »

Portlaoise - Hotel and food area with plenty of parking

Parking is regularly filled. Closes before 9PM on weekdays and on sundays/bank holidays mostly closes before 6PM. No fuel, limited space for charging. Limited seating. Poor access. No parking for trucks. Limited toilet facilities. No showers. no 24 hour toilets.

VincePP wrote: »

Moneygall - Obama Plaza

Parking woefully inadequate. well over capacity. no rapid charging for EVs. poor layout. poor access for trucks, particularly tight bends and turns at that exit. no 24 hour toilets. The name makes me cringe.

VincePP wrote: »

Birdhill - Applegreen.

no 24 hour toilets. no rapid charging for EVs. insufficient parking.

blackwhite

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/86730/new-oranmore-petrol-station-a-total-waste-of-public-money

What public money does he imagine is going to be spend building it?

It's worrying that an elected official doesn't realise that whomever wins the tender will be the one spending the money on developing the site - or maybe he's just parroting the line that an influential local businessman has encouraged him to go with.

flazio

cros13 wrote: »

The off-line services should never have been granted planning in the first place. Pure gombeen pan handling bull.



I do 50,000km a year on the M7 alone. Proper MSAs are badly needed.



Not even remotely accessible.



Stuck in planning because the junction is over capacity already. Esp. since the Kerry group buildings in millennium park opened with several thousand employees now using those juntions. Planning for Kerry group recommended an additional junction between 9 and 10 but instead there are traffic jams morning and evening leading to both junctions. About to get worse as junction 10 is being rebuilt as part of the widening.



haven't seen the plans, but that junction is occasionally backed up to the motorway and is the primary exit for kildare itself.



And well over capacity. Also quite poorly designed.



Parking is regularly filled. Closes before 9PM on weekdays and on sundays/bank holidays mostly closes before 6PM. No fuel, limited space for charging. Limited seating. Poor access. No parking for trucks. Limited toilet facilities. No showers. no 24 hour toilets.



Parking woefully inadequate. well over capacity. no rapid charging for EVs. poor layout. poor access for trucks, particularly tight bends and turns at that exit. no 24 hour toilets. The name makes me cringe.



no 24 hour toilets. no rapid charging for EVs. insufficient parking.

On any of the above mentioned built service stops, I've never had a problem parking my mini bus, never had a problem finding seating for me or my passengers, and never been caught short. M4 Enfield at 1 am however was found lacking and the food choices even at normal hours weren't great.
If a place is "over capacity" that would suggest to me that it was needed and the private business was right to open it and I congratulate them on a successful business venture. If it's bad, people will vote with their feet ( or tyres) and not go there.

In relation to your arguments against Midway, true no fuel there but there are two stations not even 60 seconds further in the road. Lack of showers, except for the ones in every single hotel room, and the gym. Toilets were no smaller than any I've come across in any service station. Parking is busy but not full anytime I've been there. Never had trouble finding a seat. EV charging is poor everywhere, but this can be addressed by the owners and isn't a valid reason to deny permission to set up business.
The system isn't perfect. Motorways are still relatively new here. As an enterprising encouraging country we need to find out which way works best for all road users.

Reuben1210

flazio wrote: »

I'd be with Pat on this one, while the NRA were faffing about picking their site Pat just got on with it, built and opened his site within a few months and it's doing very well.

Well, tbh there should have been more joined -up thinking. The offline MSA's shouldn't have got commission if they were going to potentially make the online ones unviable, and more importantly, there should have been guidelines put in place to make them the same standard as online ones without the direct connection to the motorway.

That way you would have private money being directed and managed well.

There donesn't seem to be much standards for them, and hence they cut costs and come up short in some areas.

marno21

Online MSAs update:

Tranche 1:

Tranche 1 MSAs are open at the following locations:

* M1 Lusk MSA: M1 between J4 Lissenhall and J5 Balbriggan South
* M1 Castlebellingham MSA: M1 between J15 Castlebellingham and J16 Dundalk South
* M4 Enfield MSA: M4 between J9 Enfield and J10 Kinnegad

Tranche 2:

Tranche 2 MSAs are built, but not open yet pending the outcome of legal proceedings:

* M6 Moate MSA: M6 between J7 Moate West and J8 Athlone East
* M9 Kilcullen MSA: M9 between J2 Kilcullen and J3 Athy
* M11 Gorey MSA: M11 between J21 Arklow South and J22 Gorey North

A number of other proposed locations for Tranche 2 MSAs were not built.

Tranche 3:

Not yet constructed, as the road schemes that will house them are still in planning:

* M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy motorway MSA
* N21/N69 Limerick-Foynes MSA

Tranche 4:

Tranche 4 MSAs are currently being developed and are hoped to open in 2019:

M3 MSA:
To be located on the M3 between J5 Dunboyne and J6 Dunshaughlin, approximately 3km south of Dunshauglin (the tolled section of the M3).

Preliminary design is ongoing and the EIS and CPO are expected soon.

M6 (M17/M18) MSA:
To be located on the M6 between J19 Oranmore and the M17/M18 interchange at Rathmorrissey, approximately 5.5km east of Oranmore. The MSA was originally planned to be tacked onto the roundabout at the Rathmorrissey interchange.

Preliminary design is ongoing and the EIS and CPO are expected soon.

M18 MSA:
To be located on the M18 between J10 Newmarket-on-Fergus and J11 Dromoland, approximately 1.5km north west of Newmarket-on-Fergus.

Site has been selected pending further work.