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Ivan Yates

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    #32
    old boy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭old boy


    trailerparkboy wrote: »
    Excatly the type of man we need my eye, the buisness he is involved in is imoral and thousands of people in ireland that can least afford it are hooked on gambling, its profiting from peoples misery. On questions and answers he was all for loyying the goverment to let bookies introduce fobt's into ireland, for those that dont know what these are they are fixed odds betting termials which are the crack cocaine of gambling, jeez we would have a nice society then wouldnt we, gambling is worse than any drug be it drinking or drugs, for example you can only spent so much on drinking and drugs, you could spent 10,000 in 2 minutes gambling if you were addicted, it destroys lifes and you have no chance of ever winning, for if you were to win consestently you would be banned from betting with the company as in they would monitor you and refuse to take your bets, so its not a level playing field they just want poor unfortunate people to gamble there wages away so they can be rich.

    no one is ever forced or asked to make a bet.


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    #33
    Smiley1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭Smiley1


    irish_bob wrote: »
    ivan yates is the most charismatic politician ( former politician ) in ireland

    Ivan Yates is in receipt of a TD's pension and a Ministerial pension and yet has the neck to congratulate Colm & Co on their Board Snip report! Let him do his patriotic duty and hand the money back.


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    #34
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Smiley1 wrote: »
    Ivan Yates is in receipt of a TD's pension and a Ministerial pension and yet has the neck to congratulate Colm & Co on their Board Snip report! Let him do his patriotic duty and hand the money back.

    by what logic reasoning does one come to the conclusion that being in receipt of a td pension , makes one excluded from commenting on the likes of an board snip


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    #35
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    irish_bob wrote: »
    by what logic reasoning does one come to the conclusion that being in receipt of a td pension , makes one excluded from commenting on the likes of an board snip

    I think it's fair to say he was commenting on someone who is in receipt of substantial state payments welcoming a report that recommends slashing the state income of people who are on significantly less state income than he is.

    Since you've inherited the job of scourge of public sector employees and pensioners from jimmmy on this board surely you should be lashing this public sector pensioner out of it for his huge public sector pensions, when he's not even of pension age yet, and has a significant revenue stream from his other ventures.

    You've gone off-message irish_bob.


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    #36
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    I find the glorification on entrepreneurs, capitalism, and profit tiresome.

    Why? And entrepreneurial economy is surely the way to go.
    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    I find the attitude that the rich have no significant obligation to the rest of society tiresome.

    Why do you think they have such an obligation?
    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Just remember that bankers and property developers are entrepreneurs, and were recently being lionised.

    Yes, and bailing them out was wrong. If entrepreneurs win, they can keep their spoils; if they lose they should not be given a helping hand.


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    #37
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    turgon wrote: »
    Why? And entrepreneurial economy is surely the way to go.

    Why?

    If you reflect briefly on what passes for enterprise in today's world, you might note that is often no more than a game for re-allocating profits and wealth rather than creating them.
    Why do you think they have such an obligation?

    To me, it's a fundamental of human existence. Entrepreneurs do not emerge from nowhere, they emerge from a society that has given them opportunities. Life has been good to me: I moved from childhood and an extended education into reasonably well-paid employment, had a couple of career adjustments, and am now retired on a reasonable pension. I hope that I did something to deserve that, but I know that I experienced a lot of good fortune, and that society was a major contributor to that good fortune. So I have a debt of honour -- to contribute to the well-being of others, just as society has contributed so much to me.
    Yes, and bailing them out was wrong. If entrepreneurs win, they can keep their spoils; if they lose they should not be given a helping hand.

    That's bollocks. If the banks collapse, we all lose.

    I don't want to live in the sort of society that was created in the nineteenth century by the industrial revolution, the sort of society that prompted much of Dickens's writing, and that was the basis for Marx's analyses of social forces.


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    #38
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Why?

    Because that is the way our economy is going to be go forward the strongest, if people are not going to disincentived from starting businesses by undue red tape and ridiculous tax. Business creates employment and that what we all like, right? :)


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    To me, it's a fundamental of human existence. Entrepreneurs do not emerge from nowhere, they emerge from a society that has given them opportunities. Life has been good to me

    I agree, and Ireland has been good to me especially as I restart into free college education this coming October. But the level of debt is often blown completely out of proportion. Many maintain just because youve grown up in a stable country you owe it to the exchequer to give the majority of your earnings for every conceivable social program and state body imaginable.
    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    and that society was a major contributor to that good fortune. So I have a debt of honour -- to contribute to the well-being of others, just as society has contributed so much to me.

    I dont see this "society" you speak of. I fully acknowledge the blessing of have grown up in a stable Ireland under the stable Irish government, which allowed me to advance which way I wanted. But why do you bring up society? What has "society" given us? Not being antagonistic, I just wonder why people so readily interchange use of 'government' with 'society.'


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    That's bollocks. If the banks collapse, we all lose.

    Obviously its not a black and white affair. However, bailing out the banks does not exactly give the best precedent to the next round of bankers does it? That they can **** up away and come to the government on their knees begging that the people pay for their mistakes. All I would wish for is accountability, and for the average person to take more than a passive interest in their money.

    As someone said to me: the bailout exhibited the worst elements of capitalism with the worst elements of socialism.


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    #39
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    turgon wrote: »
    ... I dont see this "society" you speak of. I fully acknowledge the blessing of have grown up in a stable Ireland under the stable Irish government, which allowed me to advance which way I wanted. But why do you bring up society? What has "society" given us? ...

    Clearly we are not on the same page. You are on Margaret Thatcher's "there is no such thing as society page"; I won't even let that book into my house.


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    #40
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Clearly we are not on the same page. You are on Margaret Thatcher's "there is no such thing as society page"; I won't even let that book into my house.

    Well perhaps might you explain your thoughts, even in an attempt to enlighten me? If you find someone with an opinion you find stupid theres no point in just dismissing them, you may as well explain why you think they're wrong.


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    #41
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    turgon wrote: »
    Well perhaps might you explain your thoughts, even in an attempt to enlighten me?

    I have already outlined my position briefly, a few posts before this.
    If you find someone with an opinion you find stupid theres no point in just dismissing them, you may as well explain why you think they're wrong.

    I didn't say that I found your opinion stupid; I said that you and I were not on the same page. I believe in society; you seem not to.


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    #42
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    I didn't say that I found your opinion stupid; I said that you and I were not on the same page. I believe in society; you seem not to.

    Its not that I dont believe in the society, I just maintain it is not a rationale to take money off of me because of debt that I apparently owe it.

    You mentioned your life story, whereas you would see that as the work of society, I see its as the work of the individual people and companies you interacted with, as well of course the government.

    In an economy such as ours we are all interdependent. However I think its able to see where we were lucky, and oft times in such situations somewhere benefited from that luck. So you might have been lucky and got a good job, but the company hiring you might benefit from that work by you being a good worker. I wouldnt be one to say that just because you got that job you owe "society" thousands of euro in tax.


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    #43
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    turgon wrote: »
    ... You mentioned your life story, whereas you would see that as the work of society, I see its as the work of the individual people and companies you interacted with, as well of course the government...

    Society is a useful term for the aggregation of persons who have a network of relationships.


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    #44
    Smiley1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭Smiley1


    irish_bob wrote: »
    by what logic reasoning does one come to the conclusion that being in receipt of a td pension , makes one excluded from commenting on the likes of an board snip

    Irish-Bob - My point about Mr.Yates is that while still a relatively young man he is in receipt of two State pensions. One because for being a former TD and the other because he was a Minister for a couple of years. If Mr.Yates wants to assist in the solution of the problem with our public finances he can voluntarily decline to accept the pensions. In a decent society he wouldn't be receiving any State pension until he was of retirement age. Don't get me wrong, Mr Yates isn't the worst of them but he is part of the problem!


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    #45
    Smiley1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭Smiley1


    gandalf wrote: »
    Its a shame that he won't be coming back because he is a very capable politician and exactly the type of man we need to get things going at the moment, a businessman.

    Gandalf - If Ivan Yates is the man to get things going let him hand his pensions back! I've met Mr. Yates and he is a personable man. But if you're going to welcome a report that advocates cutting the incomes of the most vulnerable in our society let his actions match his words!


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