Christian opinion on Human Vestigiality

ironingbored

I don't know whether this argument has been breached before. What I'm referring to is human vestigiality, e.g. the presence in humans of organs, appendages, etc. which have little or no practical use. My son very recently got his tonsils and adenoids removed which - as an atheist - go me thinking about how religious people view the presence of such organs.

• Coccyx
• Tonsil
• Adenoids
• Appendix
• Male nipples

If man was created "in God's image" then why these near useless add-ons?

I'd be interested in knowing what Christians' opinions are on this.

Fanny Cradock

It should be stressed that being a Christian does not automatically equate to the rejection of evolutionary theory. Sometimes this simple fact seems to be lost on people. I'm guessing that this has been broached before in some shape or form in the creationism thread. However, with the agreement of the other mods, I'll leave this thread open to see how it develops. It it goes down the creationism route then I'll merge it with the B, C & P thread.

ironingbored

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It should be stressed that being a Christian does not automatically equate to the rejection of evolutionary theory.

I am fully aware that many Christians accept evolution through natural selection. Having said that I am interested in finding out how vestigiality ties in with the whole "created in God's image".

Fanny Cradock

There are different interpretations, but I believe this is in reference to a spiritual image.

AtomicHorror

ironingbored wrote: »

I don't know whether this argument has been breached before. What I'm referring to is human vestigiality, e.g. the presence in humans of organs, appendages, etc. which have little or no practical use. My son very recently got his tonsils and adenoids removed which - as an atheist - go me thinking about how religious people view the presence of such organs.

• Coccyx
• Tonsil
• Adenoids
• Appendix
• Male nipples

If man was created "in God's image" then why these near useless add-ons?

I'd be interested in knowing what Christians' opinions are on this.

Tonsils are not vestigial, neither are adenoids. Both are tonsillar lymphatic tissues, they function as sampling points for the immune system- surveillance over the main entrance to our digestive and respiratory tracts. Removal of them sometimes outweighs the slight compromising of the immune function.

Male nipples are not really vestigial as such. I suspect (though I haven't checked) that the genes which generate them are not X-chromosome linked and thus must be expressed in both sexes or neither.

Appendix is an open debate in biology at the moment. Probably vestigial with some minimal function keeping it hanging around.

Coccyx is vestigial.

AtomicHorror

A couple of other vestigial organs in humans:

• Ear muscles
• Nictitating membrane remnants in the eye

There's also a whole load of vestigial human genes that have mutated out of function.

kiffer

Appendix helps your digestive track recover after explosive mass movements of the bowels ;-) by storing a sample of your intestinal fauna...

Ear muscles let you move you ears, which is highly entertaining... Everyone needs a laugh now and then, even God.

nipples are sensitive and provide hours of fun...

The old tail bone provides vital butt support. Without it bottoms wouldn't look as nice.

I'd really like functioning nictitating membranes... That would be cool.

The Mad Hatter

kiffer wrote: »

Ear muscles let you move you ears, which is highly entertaining... Everyone needs a laugh now and then, even God.

*wiggles ears*

AtomicHorror

kiffer wrote: »

Appendix helps your digestive track recover after explosive mass movements of the bowels ;-) by storing a sample of your intestinal fauna...

Exaptation! The appendix was on the way out until it turned out is was useful in another role. Still, with the invention of Yakult (with Lactobacillus casei Shirota, thank you Dr. Shirota) and my plans to make it compulsory for all, I predict that the appendix will evolve out of existence shortly.

kiffer wrote: »

I'd really like functioning nictitating membranes... That would be cool.

Would certainly make swimming easier. I have to wear googles coz the water hurts my badly designed eyes.

AtomicHorror

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

*wiggles ears*

*restores gut flora*

marco_polo

AtomicHorror wrote: »

A couple of other vestigial organs in humans:

• Ear muscles
• Nictitating membrane remnants in the eye

There's also a whole load of vestigial human genes that have mutated out of function.

Probably not advanced enough for you AH , but I just finished reading a good book at the moment called 'Relics of Eden' about the vast swaths of evidence for evolution in Human DNA. Couple of interesting philosophical chapters about Religion and Science at the end from the perspective of a author who is a 'Theistic molecular biogist' (Unofficial title )

A good example of a vestigal gene is the mutated Vitimin C producing gene that no longer works in the homind family. I know a guy with an irrational fear of the texture of Orange skins that would benifit greatly from genetic engineering in the future

PDN

This is the second thread I can remember where an atheist has labelled male nipples as being useless. Is this some kind of godless prudery? Male nipples are erogenous zones that, as kiffer has rightly pointed out, can provide hours of fun.

Some of you guys need to get out more.

kiffer

PDN wrote: »

This is the second thread I can remember where an atheist has labelled male nipples as being useless. Is this some kind of godless prudery? Male nipples are erogenous zones that, as kiffer has rightly pointed out, can provide hours of fun.

Some of you guys need to get out more.

I was playing devils advocate in the pub one night during a creation/evolution conversation... man, some people can be such jerks.
One fellow just kept yelling "wind pipe! WIND PIPE!" at me as I was putting forward an Intelligent Design argument(*)... I had to stop talking and ask him what he meant by it as he wasn't very coherent.
His point was that if the human form was designed by an intelligent designer then the wind pipe would not cross the esophagus, clearly a stupid design which causes a lot of people to choke...
It's the sort of thing that evolves (along with the epiglottis to block of the windpipe) because it's not so bad that everyone dies from it but we would be better off as individuals if they didn't cross...

My response was basically if they didn't cross over each other it would be much harder to induce burping and burp the alphabet, how do you know that wasn't the plan.
AND on a more serious note... if your mouth wasn't connected to your nose then your sense of taste wouldn't be as good because a lot what we think of as taste is handled by the smell receptors

(please note I was playing devils advocate in the pub, I'm not a creationist or proponent of ID... In fact I didn't even start off playing devils advocate I just ended up doing so when people were being incoherent jerks)
* it was someone else's argument which I was using as an example.