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Angle shooting by Doyle Brunson?

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  • 12-12-2008 1:25pm
    #1
    Rockfish
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭


    Saw this hand on TV the other night and tyhought it was rather strange that no big deal was made about Doyle's actions. He raises on button to 2400 daniel negranu calls on sb and bb folds.doyle who has bout 6k behind says im all in whatever comes up and pushes all his chips in before any flop and before negranu acts.N obody says anything, and play comntinues.. Is this not angleshooting at it's worst?? Thoughts!!


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    #2
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    no, seen this lots of times

    how can it possibly be an angleshoot?


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    #3
    Ste05
    Registered Users Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    huh?? Don't see how it's an angleshoot unless he somehow doesn't put his chips in the middle after he sees the flop???


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    #4
    HoLLLLLaments
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭HoLLLLLaments


    Ste05 wrote: »
    huh?? Don't see how it's an angleshoot unless he somehow doesn't put his chips in the middle after he sees the flop???
    if the bets not binding because its not his turn to act


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    #5
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    HoLLLLLaments wrote: »
    if the bets not binding because its not his turn to act

    of course it's binding :rolleyes:


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    #6
    Ste05
    Registered Users Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    HoLLLLLaments wrote: »
    if the bets not binding because its not his turn to act
    sounds pretty binding to me, but I'm no rules guru


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    #7
    HoLLLLLaments
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭HoLLLLLaments


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    of course it's binding :rolleyes:
    bout a month or so ago was playing in the riverside and one of the regs maurice did this on another reg stephen murphy, the dealer raybo said the bet wasnt binding because it was out of turn but maurice loses his action on this street. was big hulaballoo because maurice admitted it was an angeshoot


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    #8
    mits2006
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭mits2006


    was he wearing his lucky coalmans hat


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    #9
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,855 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    I think it was an angleshoot of sorts as it was out of turn tbh. I also think it is definitely binding, so the dealer example from above was a wrong decision imo.


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    #10
    ZZR1100
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ZZR1100


    Rockfish wrote: »
    Saw this hand on TV the other night and tyhought it was rather strange that no big deal was made about Doyle's actions. He raises on button to 2400 daniel negranu calls on sb and bb folds.doyle who has bout 6k behind says im all in whatever comes up and pushes all his chips in before any flop and before negranu acts.N obody says anything, and play comntinues.. Is this not angleshooting at it's worst?? Thoughts!!


    I dont think its really angleshooting when it gives the other player (sb in this case) an advantage in the hand


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    #11
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,855 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    ZZR1100 wrote: »
    I dont think its really angleshooting when it gives the other player (sb in this case) an advantage in the hand

    No way it gives the sb an advantage in this situation imo.


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    #12
    RoundTower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    definitely against the rules imo

    If it was just a friendly game for the cameras, then it's OK


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    #13
    Icarus152
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Icarus152


    Ok if it's cash.

    If a tourney you could receive a warning.

    Not angleshooting.


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    #14
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,855 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    Icarus152 wrote: »
    Ok if it's cash.

    If a tourney you could receive a warning.

    Not angleshooting.

    Why do you think this?


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    #15
    Flushdraw
    Registered Users Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Flushdraw


    Didnt Ciaran O Leary do the same thing in the Poker Million semi against Liam Flood? O Leary on the button pushed all in blind with AA before the flop was dealt. I'm not 100% though


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    #16
    Warper
    Registered Users Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭Warper


    Flushdraw wrote: »
    Didnt Ciaran O Leary do the same thing in the Poker Million semi against Liam Flood? O Leary on the button pushed all in blind with AA before the flop was dealt. I'm not 100% though

    No O'Leary was first to act


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    #17
    Mauricmo
    Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭Mauricmo


    I dont see any angleshooting here on Doyles part.

    Definitely some bending/breaking of the rules though.
    But who's gonna argue with the big man?


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    #18
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    HoLLLLLaments wrote: »
    bout a month or so ago was playing in the riverside and one of the regs maurice did this on another reg stephen murphy, the dealer raybo said the bet wasnt binding because it was out of turn but maurice loses his action on this street. was big hulaballoo because maurice admitted it was an angeshoot

    learn to type and punctuate :rolleyes:

    it's a verbal declaration and is binding imo (no matter what your position), must have seen this at least a dozen times in live play.


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    #19
    Icarus152
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Icarus152


    5starpool wrote: »
    Why do you think this?

    IMO there are things that are acceptable in cash that are not permitted in tourneys e.g. 2 players all-in in a cash game don't have to turn up there cards.2 players all-in in a tourney do.

    To me Doyle's action comes under "acting in the dark".I've seen one player warned by a TD against this in a tourney but I never heard of anyone being warned about this in a cash game.

    I'm open to correction :).


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    #20
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,855 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    Icarus152 wrote: »
    IMO there are things that are acceptable in cash that are not permitted in tourneys e.g. 2 players all-in in a cash game don't have to turn up there cards.2 players all-in in a tourney do.

    To me Doyle's action comes under "acting in the dark".I've seen one player warned by a TD against this in a tourney but I never heard of anyone being warned about this in a cash game.

    I'm open to correction :).

    Maybe you missed this point, but Doyle did this out of turn, in the dark. This is not within the rules no matter what type of game it is. In turn you cannot be warned for acting in the dark in either format.


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    #21
    spectre
    Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭spectre


    I don't think the declaration should be binding as the flop had not been dealt. This is completely different to acting out of turn after the flop is dealt imo.

    I think the dealer should make Doyle pull back his money and deal the flop. This is without doubt an angleshoot.


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    #22
    Four of a kind
    Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Four of a kind


    betting out of turn is binding...well from what I've been led to believe. It is angleshooting imo as well, but since it was Doyle nothing is said.
    If Hellmuth did it then there would be a revolt.


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    #23
    Mauricmo
    Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭Mauricmo


    Anybody got a link to the hand in question?


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    #24
    fixer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 555 ✭✭✭fixer


    what would you expect Doyle to do? The pot is $5k or so and he had about $6k behind. Is there any chance he is not getting it all in on any flop? DN knows this, even without Doyle's friendly announcement.


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    #25
    NickyOD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,124 ✭✭✭NickyOD


    Actually I would say it probably is angle-shooting since he's bending the rules to gain an unfair advantage in the hand. He takes away Negreanu's right to act first and possibly make the same move which was probably his plan given stack sizes.


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    #26
    spectre
    Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭spectre


    fixer wrote: »
    what would you expect Doyle to do?

    Play by the rules maybe?
    fixer wrote: »
    The pot is $5k or so and he had about $6k behind. Is there any chance he is not getting it all in on any flop? DN knows this, even without Doyle's friendly announcement.

    Completely irrelevant


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    #27
    thedini
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭thedini


    call it angleshooting or whatever the fact is he didn't abide by the rules and should have been given a warning etc


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    #28
    Mr Minraise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭Mr Minraise


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    learn to type and punctuate :rolleyes:

    it's a verbal declaration and is binding imo (no matter what your position), must have seen this at least a dozen times in live play.

    I dont think it is binding.

    There was an episode of High Stakes Poker where Sammy Farha had AA and Jamie Gold had KK.

    Sammy was thinking of betting out on the river and Jamie just want the two of them just to check it down. Before Sammy bet Jamie said 'I call' loads of times, but if Sammy actually had bet, Jamie could have folded if he wished. (according to Gabe Kaplin anyhows)


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