"Hosted" forums and boards.ie

billy the squid

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I think it'd be a bit odd getting a siteban just from posting in the Hosting cat what with it only being a sub-section and not actually being a part of the boards.ie experience. It's extra odd in that Smods don't seem to take part in or having any powers over said category.

The offending material MC is referring to was in Helpdesk, not in CT. it says so in the linked post above.

Nevyn

snyper wrote: »

Ze snyper forum.
'for general jackarsery'

nice ring to it.

Pff part of the reason we have host mods was an infamous tard who did just that.

http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/Hosted_Moderator

Hosted Moderators, previously known as Community Moderators are Moderators of boards in the Hosted category. Unlike Moderators in the public forums, Hosted Moderator are generally given their duties as they had requested the board, or the community involved in that board had requested they be given their duties.

They have the same powers over their boards as Moderators in the public forums, such as stickying/closing/deleting threads and banning users but dont have access to the Ultra-Sekrit Mod Forum.

Like other forum moderators, Hosted moderators have no power outside of the forums they moderate, and should be treated as normal users.

They are a away for boards.ie to lend it's resources to a group with out them being officially part of the site, ergo are hmods held to the same standard when the forum is thier own mini sandbox which the admins have given them.


http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/Hosted_Forum

Community forums, also known as Hosted forums are forums where the topic may fall under the remit of an already established board, but users wish to discuss topics in the context of a particular group or special interest topic. Current forums consist of pressure groups, such as IrelandOffline, bands such as Clergy, and radio stations such as Phantom FM, to name but a few.

Community forums are not subject to the control of boards.ie Administrators in the same way that the main forums are. While they must still stick to the general rules of boards.ie, an Administrator will never dictate any other policy to the moderator and will very rarely carry out any moderation on a forum in the event of a brief absence of the moderator.

In order to request a community forum, it needs to be shown that there is sufficient interest in the forum, and inactive forums are periodicially recycled.

Red Sleeping Beauty

There's a mod of the American Footbal forum who has "Hosted moderator" under his name. How is this when that forum is in the main Sports Cat?

AlmightyCushion

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

There's a mod of the American Footbal forum who has "Hosted moderator" under his name. How is this when that forum is in the main Sports Cat?

He may mod another forum that is a hosted forum. He may also have moderated a hosted forum and still have access to the usergroup because someone forgot to remove it.

javaboy

Or maybe he's a subscriber and likes to confuse people.

AlmightyCushion

javaboy wrote: »

Or maybe he's a subscriber and likes to confuse people.

I was just about to edit my post to say that. Odd that he has the 4 stars if he is in the hosted mod usergroup.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Was American Football always under "Sports" or was it perhaps a hosted forum at one stage ?

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

--amadeus--

In general teh Hosted Forums are unlikely to have anything controversial enough to raise hackles or get the site into hot water. The glaring exception to that is probably CT, which I would tend to agree is probably both broad enough and popular enough to go into the main board. There is no need to make dramatic changes like banning hosted forums just because some folks have thier knickers in a twist and have fallen out!

That said it may be worth having a splash screen when you first enter a hosted forum with a disclaimer telling you that you are now leaving Boards.ie and normal rules do not apply, even if only from a clarity perspective.

Red Sleeping Beauty

But you're not leaving boards.ie when you click on a hosted forum, that's the thing

Sully

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

But you're not leaving boards.ie when you click on a hosted forum, that's the thing

The "Hosted" section implies that they are just slotting in on Boards.ie Discussion Board as a private to themselves forum rather then creating their own website with a forum. They are using a section of space provided by Boards.ie. They are not governed by the same guidelines and rules as forums outside of the Hosted Category which belong to Boards.ie are.

Basically, they are using the Boards.ie website to discuss topics amongst themselves and allowing Boards.ie users to join their private community if they like. They are hosted forums and the Hosted Mods are responsible for their operation and rules. Any issues need to be sorted out with the HMod or on the forum. Feedback and Help Desk are not the place to go with Hosted Forum issues really but if need be the SMods/Admins will provide assistance in the event all other methods have failed. HMods have their own Mod Forum where they can discuss moderation issues if need be. They do not have access (usually) to the Mod forum where Boards.ie forums mods have access to.

The main issue here is that this system is not clear. People dont understand the difference as its not made clear to them. It needs to be made clear and each forum needs to have a good charter and a method of dealing with any issues which may arrise. This, I think, is the best solution.

Think of it like a office block building - different companys borrow a small section of the building for their own offices but each company operate their offices differently and deal with issues differently. The building manager will not get invovled with any disputes in the office unless it brings the overall building into disrepute. (Boards.ie being the building, admins/Smods being the managers and the offices being the hosted forums).

RoundyMooney

It's another legacy based loose end that may need tying up.

While it may be unfair to target existing fora that have existed symbiotically on the server (servers, now) for years, the situation needs formalising.

If you're happy for an Smod to go in and clear your (not clearly defined) hosted patch of spam and porn, there is little difference in allowing yourself and your community to fall under the boards.ie hierarchy, surely. It may not be perfect, but it comes pretty close, and is in a state of constant (and hopefully improving, given the upcoming appointment) flux to respond, as the community grows and perhaps changes direction on occasion.

I don't see the point in hosted fora, are they being given webspace? or access to the few thousand regulars here? I would assume the latter, in which case damn few will make a distinction, and even less will care as to their status.

I say bring them into the fold, and disperse them around the existing categories according to the wishes of the users. If they don't like that, then nowt stopping them buying vB and setting up shop themselves.

This is not an over reaction to mahatma and his gowling, because IMO a boards mod is only slightly easier to dislodge than an African dictator with a nuclear warhead and a hundred thousand AK toting underlings, but I think it would prevent further confusion, streamline things a little, and avoid future misunderstandings.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Hey, you know what I noticed a while ago? The Hmod for the cake and pie forum hasn't been online since July. Maybe he should be replaced or something.

Faith

Noe Icy Trapdoor wrote: »

Hey, you know what I noticed a while ago? The Hmod for the cake and pie forum hasn't been online since July. Maybe he should be replaced or something.

I was actually going to suggest that that forum be moved under the Food & Drink umbrella, or merged with Snacks & Sweets.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Vexorg asked if there was anything else said mod had done that was questionable in a help desk thread. You might be better suited to PM him rather than post what you've posted there.
It might work against you to be posting a PM

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58263821&postcount=60

seamus

Diogenes, do NOT post the content of PMs without the other user's consent.

If you have a grievance and you have a PM that you feel is appropriate, you can forward it to the admin/s/mod who's dealing with your request.

Diogenes

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Vexorg asked if there was anything else said mod had done that was questionable in a help desk thread. You might be better suited to PM him rather than post what you've posted there.
It might work against you to be posting a PM

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58263821&postcount=60

Unfortunately as an ordinary user I cannot post a helpdesk thread started by another user.

Diogenes

seamus wrote: »

Diogenes, do NOT post the content of PMs without the other user's consent.

If you have a grievance and you have a PM that you feel is appropriate, you can forward it to the admin/s/mod who's dealing with your request.

I have started another helpdesk thread on the subject.

Respectively Seamus (and I presume it was you) instead of deleting my entire post, you could perhaps, restore the rest of my post, and edit out the offending PM I C&P'd. I understand your point out PMs but I think the rest of my post was perfectly valid.

Diogenes

RoundyMooney wrote: »

This is not an over reaction to mahatma and his gowling, because IMO a boards mod is only slightly easier to dislodge than an African dictator with a nuclear warhead and a hundred thousand AK toting underlings, but I think it would prevent further confusion, streamline things a little, and avoid future misunderstandings.

Hmmm. I've written a length response to this, and the entire post was deleted because I posted a pm. It really does seem, that boards mods/Hmods/ etc don't like airing their dirty linen among the ordinary users, the ordinary users who write the posts and make the community. It seems like boards and its mods have a relationship akin to Beverly Flynn and FF.

On a recent thread Mahatma say and I quote "Jews are the most despicable race of people on the planet". When he realised that such basically offensive opinions are offensive to the majority of users on this forum, he quickly deleted the thread, refused to explain or justify his actions. Other Mods on the forum privately objected to his behavior but declined from redacting it.

You can see examples of Mahatma's holocaust denial here and here

His "whimsical" modding system here

Oh and I just wanted to quote the whole page where he expressed delete in mutilating animals, but its not pertinent to his appalling record as a mod.

--amadeus--

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

But you're not leaving boards.ie when you click on a hosted forum, that's the thing

Best analogy I can think of is Monaco to France is what Hosted Forums are to Boards. Monaco is a sovereign state but depends on France, used to use teh Franc, etc. Hosted Forums make their own laws but ultimately rely on the grace and favour of Boards.ie

And that is the distinction that I think we need to make, we need the equivalent of order control, IMO

Red Sleeping Beauty

This may seem like poo stirring but, surely you can't get away with hateful, racist or bigoted stuff just because it's on a "hosted" forum ?

javaboy

Diogenes wrote: »

Hmmm. I've written a length response to this, and the entire post was deleted because I posted a pm. It really does seem, that boards mods/Hmods/ etc don't like airing their dirty linen among the ordinary users, the ordinary users who write the posts and make the community. It seems like boards and its mods have a relationship akin to Beverly Flynn and FF.

Posting any users PM without permission is generally not allowed. There is no special treatment of mods in that regard. As for airing their dirty linen among ordinary users, you're perfectly entitled to complain about stuff in Help Desk or Feedback which are both publicly viewable. If it's a PM you're talking about then you can start a Help Desk thread and an SMod or Admin will usually try to get to the bottom of it. If you say the PM is particularly abusive or whatever then the SMod/Admin might ask you to forward it to them privately.

There has to be some expectation of privacy when sending a private message after all.

On a recent thread Mahatma say and I quote "Jews are the most despicable race of people on the planet". When he realised that such basically offensive opinions are offensive to the majority of users on this forum, he quickly deleted the thread, refused to explain or justify his actions. Other Mods on the forum privately objected to his behavior but declined from redacting it.

Correction: Other mods said it was being dealt with and they wouldn't like to comment on it until it is sorted out. I assume it has gone higher than the CT forum mods at this stage. Wait and see what happens before jumping to the conclusion that there's been some mod cover up.

javaboy

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

This may seem like poo stirring but, surely you can't get away with hateful, racist or bigoted stuff just because it's on a "hosted" forum ?

See my post above. AFAIK it's being dealt with.

Sully

Its being looked into by Vexorg, one of the admins. He has asked in Help Desk for people to let him know if there was anything else that was a problem beside the one incident in question (the banning of another user). Another admin, DeVore has also briefly commented. You can see all replys in Help Desk. Help Desk is the forum which deals with issues with mods, bannings etc. The idea is to cut out the noise caused by a public Feedback forum and have it user, mod and Smod/Admin posting per thread only.

I can assure you that no mods actions are "covered up". Iv seen mods being removed from their position and banned before for abuse of power. A private message is considered private regardless of who sent it (mod or user). Issues with them are dealt with by Smods & Admins only. Iv gotten a few people send me PMs they got and have passed them onto the Smods to deal with.

tbh

Diogenes wrote: »

Hmmm. I've written a length response to this, and the entire post was deleted because I posted a pm. It really does seem, that boards mods/Hmods/ etc don't like airing their dirty linen among the ordinary users, the ordinary users who write the posts and make the community.

with respect man, that's absolute bullsh1t. You simply cannot say that ALL mods/hmods/ are something, because it's total hyperbole and makes it impossible to take anything else you may say seriously. I saw your thread and to me, an impartial observer, it looks like you and MC have had a ding-dong for a while and you took the opportunity to goad him while he was under the cosh, and when he exploded (how did you think he would have reacted to that message, btw? ) you got the reaction you wanted and ran to helpdesk feigning shock and outrage. So you see, if you're not getting the reaction you were expecting, it's probably because people find it difficult to respect that kind of thing. Even tho your points may have some merit (I don't really care either way), a lot of people probably don't want to be seen to be "condoning" your behaviour.

just my 2c

billy the squid

Diogenes wrote: »

Hmmm. I've written a length response to this, and the entire post was deleted because I posted a pm. It really does seem, that boards mods/Hmods/ etc don't like airing their dirty linen among the ordinary users, the ordinary users who write the posts and make the community. It seems like boards and its mods have a relationship akin to Beverly Flynn and FF.

No, it means that posting PMs in public is stupid.

On a recent thread Mahatma say and I quote "Jews are the most despicable race of people on the planet". When he realised that such basically offensive opinions are offensive to the majority of users on this forum, he quickly deleted the thread, refused to explain or justify his actions. Other Mods on the forum privately objected to his behavior but declined from redacting it.

If they privately objected then how do you know they objected. I have read your thread in Helpdesk and your PM to MC was rather nasty. and as you have been told, his response is being dealt with by the higher ups . You yourself are not exactly squeaky clean diogenes. you were problematic on the CT forum way back when I modded it, constantly getting into rows with miju and myself.

You can see examples of Mahatma's holocaust denial here and here[/quote]

Liar. he doesn't deny the holocost, he is questioning the number of victims. We do after all live in a democracy and he is entitled to his view on history. I would subscribe to the six million figure myself but respect his right to believe that it was two million. Both discussions linked above ended up turning into heated arguements between you and him without any evidence from either side.

By the way, holocaust denial is NOT a crime in this country.

His "whimsical" modding system here

That was a joke thing that went all wrong. human beings have a tendancy to do stupid things from time to time. The fact that he asked the person he had banned for assistance in unbanning him should have shown that it was a joke that went wrong.

Oh and I just wanted to quote the whole page where he expressed delete in mutilating animals, but its not pertinent to his appalling record as a mod.

Which you neglected to quote or link to.

Mr Magnolia

Faith wrote: »

I was actually going to suggest that that forum be moved under the Food & Drink umbrella, or merged with Snacks & Sweets.

lol, you sure? The last time I looked in there they were all nuts.

starn

billy the squid wrote: »

Which you neglected to quote or link to.

I could be wrong but I think this might be the post

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58048286&postcount=38

seamus

Diogenes wrote: »

Hmmm. I've written a length response to this, and the entire post was deleted because I posted a pm. It really does seem, that boards mods/Hmods/ etc don't like airing their dirty linen among the ordinary users, the ordinary users who write the posts and make the community. It seems like boards and its mods have a relationship akin to Beverly Flynn and FF.

Did you leave your tinfoil hat at home today?

I deleted your post because I saw that you'd included PMs. Nope, I didn't read any of the rest of your post, PMs are a little bit of a red flag to just nuke the post.

Seeing as you've pretty much restored the rest of the text anyway, the planets are now realigned.

Now, unless you've missed the rest of this thread, you'll have noticed that Mahatma is not a normal mod, he's a hosted mod, so the vast bulk of your comments about "airing dirty laundry" and "modding systems" are largely irrelevant because the same rules don't apply on that forum. We've been over this.

Everyone else has pretty much dealt with your posts, so I've nothing further to add.

Diogenes

billy the squid wrote: »

No, it means that posting PMs in public is stupid.

While hurling abuse via pm seems to be hunky dory. Sorry the rules seem to shift here with an awful lot of whimsy.

If they privately objected then how do you know they objected.

Er because they told me?

I have read your thread in Helpdesk and your PM to MC was rather nasty.

While his was just peachy.

and as you have been told, his response is being dealt with by the higher ups . You yourself are not exactly squeaky clean diogenes. you were problematic on the CT forum way back when I modded it, constantly getting into rows with miju and myself.

You mean that time I got an indefinite ban because I was mean to muji, had to pm you and him about, you washed your hands of it, and I had to take it to feedback where the general consensus was his behaviour was unacceptable, and the ban was lifted?

Christ I'm an anarchist.

you wrote:

me wrote:

You can see examples of Mahatma's holocaust denial here and here

Liar. he doesn't deny the holocost, he is questioning the number of victims. We do after all live in a democracy and he is entitled to his view on history. I would subscribe to the six million figure myself but respect his right to believe that it was two million. Both discussions linked above ended up turning into heated arguements between you and him without any evidence from either side.

Liar.

I provided huge swaths of evidence behind my figures. He just plucked the number of 2 million out of the air.

And I notice you skipped over the bit where he was throwing racist abuse towards jews.

I don't object to him having a different opinion on the death toil of the holocaust, I object to it, because it is an example of his overall racist world view. He hates jews. End of discuss. He refers to the figure of six million as the "jew number". Anyone who challenges his unacceptable belief has their own racial background questioned by him.

I don't dislike the man because I disagree with his statistics, I dislike the man because he's an unrepentant racist.

And I really thought this forum was against intolerence.

By the way, holocaust denial is NOT a crime in this country.

It may not be a crime, it's not right though is it?

That was a joke thing that went all wrong. human beings have a tendancy to do stupid things from time to time.

I've never once seen a mod on this forum do similar.

The fact that he asked the person he had banned for assistance in unbanning him should have shown that it was a joke that went wrong.

Or that he's incompetent idiot, with powers and responsibility that elude his ability.

Which you neglected to quote or link to.

I did in my OP. Which Seamus deleted. Care to comment on it, now Starn has posted it?