Retailers in Waterford

Minto

I was in a certain shop today, related to the one Sully mentioned earlier in the thread.
I was the only customer in the shop, had just picked up a very expensive shirt and was about to threat myself, when I heard the manager, who had just said "hi" to me, informed one of the employees that no discounts were to be given to anyone, under any circumstances. I put the shirt straight back down and left the shop. I normaly threat myself to a few bits and pieces from the shop every now and then, but it'll be a while before I go back there again. The nets cheaper anyway. :P

Just thought I'd let people know the spirit of scrooge is still alive and well in Barronstrand Street!

Sully

Shocking really. Excellent decission walking out of there, take your business elsewhere. The bigger retailers are happily giving discounts around the place. Wallis, Debenhams and Shaws are just three that I spotted over the weekend having big discount posters. I wonder do some businesses bring this on themselves. Terrible.

rasper

I'm surprised that everyone assumes that it is the small retailers are the sole reason for the higher prices, the reason is we live in a high cost economy and this effects everything in this state, we're an inefficient economy with a high wage cost due to being one of the highest cost of living in Europe.
This is the governments fault for letting the whole system boil over, the fact is the retailer is just the last reseller of a goods item after everyone has their slice with higher charges on top. Good thing at least now the consumer has copped on and acted now at least some change can be planned at least , unfortunately it is a bit late now and theres worse to come yet

sunnysoutheast

I don't think you can compare the international retailers who have massive buying power, almost permanent "sales" as a strategy, and huge volume with local independent retailers.

I'd suggest that in most cases the staff were not actually empowered to give any discount and/or had been specifically forbidden from doing so. The only way you're going to get any discount, at all, on a hot product like a new phone is if you make a contractual commitment. The staff will not have any discretion to vary this, although you might get a car kit or something thrown in if you pay the sticker price.

Can you seriously imagine a scenario where the shopper selects their goods, gets to the till point and then starts negotiating the price? In every shop? Every time? It'd be like Cairo! I'd like to see someone try it in Guineys.

Remember that if you buy a PS3 in Newry you'll have to take it back there if it goes wrong.

I've no connection to any of the shops mentioned/inferred, except to say that my experience in the shop in B'stand St was fine.

SSE

Aquos76

Sully wrote: »

Shocking really. Excellent decission walking out of there, take your business elsewhere. The bigger retailers are happily giving discounts around the place. Wallis, Debenhams and Shaws are just three that I spotted over the weekend having big discount posters. I wonder do some businesses bring this on themselves. Terrible.

I wouldn't take much notice of Wallis or Debenhams, they have been ripping off their customers for months now which there sterling exchange rates. These 25% off sales they have been having lately, are there way of bringing the prices down to somewhere close to the sterling equivalent.

Trotter

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Remember that if you buy a PS3 in Newry you'll have to take it back there if it goes wrong.

I'll take my chances. That was only one example. I looked for a quote from a local printer last week for 100 booklets, and got no reply. I emailed again and got the one line reply along the lines of.. How many pages do you want??

No thanks, no sorry for the delay etc.

By that stage I'd already bought them elsewhere.

A friend of mine was looking to buy a piece of unusual home furniture and saw it on an Irish based online site, not a million miles from us. It was 3 times the price as an online site in the UK, delivery included.

He emailed the Irish one very politely to see was the price correct, because he too had listen to the "buy Irish" line we're being fed.

He got a mail back saying not to tell them how to run their business!!

When the reply was sent saying there was no need for the tone of the company's email, he received another reply basically saying go ahead and spend your foreign money, we're selling a load of these anyway.

Ho Ho Ho!

I'll spend my money wherever I see value. I've zero loyalty to any shop unless I feel they're being fair. If a local shop offers me very good service and comes within a decent amount of what it can be got for in the UK, I'll go local.

With a hint of a bad attitude though, I'll walk out the door, as should everyone else.

sunnysoutheast

Trotter wrote: »

I'll take my chances. That was only one example. I looked for a quote from a local printer last week for 100 booklets, and got no reply. I emailed again and got the one line reply along the lines of.. How many pages do you want??

No thanks, no sorry for the delay etc.

By that stage I'd already bought them elsewhere.

A friend of mine was looking to buy a piece of unusual home furniture and saw it on an Irish based online site, not a million miles from us. It was 3 times the price as an online site in the UK, delivery included.

He emailed the Irish one very politely to see was the price correct, because he too had listen to the "buy Irish" line we're being fed.

He got a mail back saying not to tell them how to run their business!!

When the reply was sent saying there was no need for the tone of the company's email, he received another reply basically saying go ahead and spend your foreign money, we're selling a load of these anyway.

Ho Ho Ho!

I'll spend my money wherever I see value. I've zero loyalty to any shop unless I feel they're being fair. If a local shop offers me very good service and comes within a decent amount of what it can be got for in the UK, I'll go local.

With a hint of a bad attitude though, I'll walk out the door, as should everyone else.

I'm not disagreeing that service often leaves a lot to be desired and that products can often be bought cheaper in the UK, even before the recent collapse in Sterling.

My point, however, is that you can scarcely expect a business to accept random offers from every TD&H who walks in off the street, particularly in a busy queue in public. If you're spending €5k then a quiet word with the manager might be in order. Why would anyone give a discount on one shirt or PS3 coming up to Christmas?

Customers are free to shop wherever they like, and clearly the shop owners are free to set their pricing policy.

SSE

Trotter

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Customers are free to shop wherever they like, and clearly the shop owners are free to set their pricing policy.

SSE

I agree, but in an environment where the efforts from "those on high" are to bring those two elements together in order to keep the money being spent in the state, shopkeepers have to decide if they want X amount of profit, or that warm feeling that they managed to keep their pricing structure intact.

You cant pay suppliers with warm feelings though.

I see what you mean about a free for all happening but in reality it wont happen. All it takes is for customers to feel that they've been looked after. This can take the form of a discount, or, from outstanding service.

Lets be honest, Ireland hasn't got a good reputation for option 2 there either.

The reality is though that yes its Christmas, yes people are spending, but yes, theres a glaringly obvious alternative now thats damn attractive. Can a Waterford based company bridge the gap of €50 for the PS3 through excellent service, and a decent price? Absolutely. Do they all want to? No. I firmly believe some retailers think that they'll wake up tomorrow and the times for screwing the punters will have returned. The clogged road to Newry should be a wake up call to all retailers in Waterford and beyond that the customer has firmly slapped the ball into their court.. and about time too.

wmpdd3

Anybody here woirking in retail?
These local business are already costing their Janurary sales, If they don't have the money for the discounts needed to bring in the sales in line with outgoings, which member of staff do they get rid of?

I have no doubt that prices will come down, but staffing levels will be cut. By next year staffing levels will be at 1998 levels as will customer service. For get floor staff, customer services desks, checkout que control, longer open hours and change of mind polices.

Speaking to local business people, they are closely studying each months profit and loss account and looking for savings. One thing that keeps comming up is change of mind. Returns at the level of department stores can criple a small store.

Also larger stores are looking at this as a cost saving tool. If they are offering deep discounts they can't afford to take back stock at one price and put it back on sale at a lower price. Be sure many department stores will be revising their policies very soon.

I always said we should have offered a 20% discount on our stock if the customer waived their option to return the item, many agreed but it was deemed un inforcable.

sunnysoutheast

Trotter wrote: »

The clogged road to Newry should be a wake up call to all retailers in Waterford and beyond that the customer has firmly slapped the ball into their court.. and about time too.

Well time will tell. I think it is virtually impossible for local retailers, particularly smaller ones, to approach NI prices given the current virtual parity with Sterling and Ireland's higher cost base. Even more so if there is any attempt to maintain service quality.

Sadly I think we've seen the high water mark for retailing in our City, at least in the short term. I'd expect some closures next year, no doubt replaced with pound shops. There must be massive question marks over the Newgate Centre now too.

SSE

durrus

I work in a small retail outlet in Waterford and here's how it's working for us: Our sales are down about 30% on last year since September, staff have been left go, the boss is getting paid for three weeks out of four and is working 7 days a week. Some stock has been sent back because there is no money to pay for it. We only sell one line of product which we buy in sterling and the price of that has been reduced - even though the sterling supplier has put his prices up because he's paying for the product in dollars.

All of us have been told that where possible, no customer is to be refused a small discount if requested except for small item sales.

While it seems that many people here believe that retailers were carrying the cash out in wheelbarrows for the last few years I think the reality for a lot of SMALLER retailers is that they were just finding it easier to stay in business than it used to be and now it's a lot more difficult to stay in business. Of all the people to sling arrows at for the boom times I think small retailers would be low on the list. One person said to my boss "Oh well, at least you have the cash from the good times to carry you." My boss said to me afterwards "There never was any cash, just a lower overdraft." I think that's what it is really like to run a small, single outlet retail business in Ireland.

gscully

Sully, have you tried shopping online for a sim-free phone? I wanted a N73 a year ago and had no hope of a reasonable offer from O2, so I got one on pixmania.com instead. Quite cheap too...and delivered promptly via courier.

gscully

This thread has generated a bit of discussion about discounts and retailers, so how about, in these times of hardship, we start a new sticky along the lines of the cheapest petrol thread?

Let's have a thread that shows the retailers that provided consumers with discounts and reward them for having the cop-on to recognise the recession...and at the same time, let's name and shame (as long as it's factually correct) the retailers that refuse to provide a discount.

What say you?

merlante

An interesting discussion lads.

I heard that rents and rates are very high in town -- too high for a place with the catchment population of Waterford -- which is one of the reasons why we have a high turnover of businesses in the city, and probably why the city centre is dominated by large international retailers and a few big local players. Is this part of the problem? Can anyone offer a perspective on this?

I've been thinking that in the future I'd like to open a small business in Waterford, but it doesn't look easy...

Baby4

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Baby4

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echosound

merlante wrote: »

An interesting discussion lads.

I heard that rents and rates are very high in town -- too high for a place with the catchment population of Waterford -- which is one of the reasons why we have a high turnover of businesses in the city, and probably why the city centre is dominated by large international retailers and a few big local players. Is this part of the problem? Can anyone offer a perspective on this?

I've been thinking that in the future I'd like to open a small business in Waterford, but it doesn't look easy...

Completely agree - I was shocked to find out the level of rents and rates for some city centre premises in comparison to what we had been paying while running a small business in another south east location (a large enough centre of population, not a small village or anything) previously. You would be hard pressed to break even after paying rates and rents, let alone pay staff and suppliers, and would need a huge wad of capital behind you for the first few years to make a go of things in Waterford.

It's to the detriment of Waterford that so many retailers are just chain stores, often UK owned, rather than local businesses. NO room for building relationships with customers or offering discounts.

Eg I was shopping with an elderly relative in Carrick on Suir earlier this week, and we were offered discounts galore from various shop owners (many of whom have had the business in their family for generations) without even asking for them as we were recognised by the store owners as being regular customers, and even the staff of the bigger chains (eg supervalu) were friendly and helpful beyond what was required, something that seems to be missing in Waterford.

People will continue to vote with their feet, buying online or in other cities, and Waterford will continue it's slide into depression, with empty units and a deserted city centre, which will of course lead to even more job losses for the city. Vicious cycle.

Trotter

My experience over the past few weeks is that its the small local retailers that have been the ones to "look after" the customers.. and by that I mean through very good personal service and a little discount too.

ToxicPaddy

Not living in Waterford for a number of years I cant really comment on how things are there at the moment, however I have seen a small business (electrical appliances) in a town in the midlands looking after its regulars and giving them discounts, being friendly, having a chat and just in general being welcoming to the customers, as a result they are doing fairly well this year where as many other of their competition are opening, offering big discounts etc and closing within the year..

Its a simple fact that people appreciate being appreciated and even though this place is not the cheapest in town, people know they will be looked after and if there is a problem, they call the store who will sort it for them.

It doesnt take a genius to know that rude staff and inflexible businesses will soon be sufferring as a result of their actions towards customers..

I for one have my regular few smaller retailers I go to as I know the people in them and always feel looked after, some do offer a discount or a freebie, as in if I'm buying a suit or something like they, they throw in a free belt or if I'm buying a few bits they throw in something thats say €10 for free.. just cause Ive spent €100-€150 there.. it all adds up and guarantees I will go back and spread the word to friends and family, they could get 5 times that amount of business from word of mouth without spending a penny on advertising..

As far as someone said about customer service going back to 1985 levels, I would welcome that as back then times were hard and retailers appreciated their customers..

Gadgie

I ordered my Xmas turkey in P. Larkin's last year - I'm still waiting for it.

Disgraceful service. :mad:

AdMMM

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

I don't think you can compare the international retailers who have massive buying power, almost permanent "sales" as a strategy, and huge volume with local independent retailers.

I'd suggest that in most cases the staff were not actually empowered to give any discount and/or had been specifically forbidden from doing so. The only way you're going to get any discount, at all, on a hot product like a new phone is if you make a contractual commitment. The staff will not have any discretion to vary this, although you might get a car kit or something thrown in if you pay the sticker price.

Can you seriously imagine a scenario where the shopper selects their goods, gets to the till point and then starts negotiating the price? In every shop? Every time? It'd be like Cairo! I'd like to see someone try it in Guineys.

SSE

Pretty much agree with all of this.

rroche81

i dont see what the big deal is about shopping outside of Waterford. I havent bought a Cd or DVD in waterford in about 4 years because i could never get a decent selection, or it would be too exp when compared to online. I try and avoid the city for shopping but last week i decided i'd check out river island online to give me an idea if they woudl be worth going into. Fine. Went in and i was shocked at the prices. Online £25, in the shop €43!

I support local shops (i use a butchers not a supermarket, and so on) but I'm going to London for christmas and if i dont buy anything in Waterford and buy it all in London it'll pay for my flights and hotel.

It was interesting to hear Mandate spokesperson on the radio a few weeks back promoting their 'customer charter' on how customers are supposed to behave. Well how about how shop staff are supposed to behave?

People will support businesses that they get vaue (in financial and non monetary terms) from. If its bad for retailers now, I can only imagine what next year has in store, especially for the ones not providing some sort of value

ec18

It's smaller retailers that are using the old conversion as well.....I was in a book shop yesterday and was told well the exchange rate we just half it and add it on......I told him that no thats wrong at most it'll be 2 euro more than the sterling price. I am a regular customer in there and have known the owner of the shop for a good few years. (He wasn't there)

What i was told was well thats the way we do it.....wtf? surely someone like that would want to keep regular customers!......I'll be having a chat with the owner when he gets back about that.



(I didn't pay the price he was asking...we came to a better price.....still got ripped off though)

wmpdd3

Sorry to hear about that especially as it'sa local business but you did get a discount, isn't that what you wanted all along?

Also invoices for book sales are paid a month in arears based on sales as far as I know so maybe the exchange rate is due to change about the 14th of jan.

Did you ask?

ec18

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Sorry to hear about that especially as it'sa local business but you did get a discount, isn't that what you wanted all along?

Also invoices for book sales are paid a month in arears based on sales as far as I know so maybe the exchange rate is due to change about the 14th of jan.

Did you ask?

I didn't particularly want a discount, it was more that recently a lot has been said about the sterling/euro price in large retailers. It happens in smaller retailers as well. And when i asked about why he was using that conversion rate he said well thats just the way we do it. If he had said because we bought the book in at the old price than I might have more empathy for your point. But He didn't

Jambo

BBC Radio 1 - News Beat Approx six mins in a reference to a Waterford shopper driving up to the north to save money !!!.

Even now joe public in the UK knows about our price differential problem , when is Mr Cowen going to sort this out ?

decies

More like sad person for driving that far :rolleyes:
Just forgetting about the recession for a moment and lack of choices in waterford,Waterford people through out the years must be the most disloyal bunch in ireland,if it wasn,t for south kilkenny people shopping in Waterford there would be no shops left there

Quigs Snr

I think loyalty is a word which gets thrown around too much. Its a global market now, if you can't compete on something, price, service etc... you die. And deservedly so.

Like most people, my "loyalty" can be bought at the best of times and in a recession/depression, its a no brainer. I don't think thats just a Waterford thing. I think there is no harm in letting the existing businesses fold, although any job losses would be sad. Things find their own level, eventually businesses which can compete should pop up in their place.. Maybe.

scout353

Gadgie wrote: »

I ordered my Xmas turkey in P. Larkin's last year - I'm still waiting for it.

Disgraceful service. :mad:

Jeez, you must be starving!!!!

scout353

Sully wrote: »

Shocking really. Excellent decission walking out of there, take your business elsewhere. The bigger retailers are happily giving discounts around the place. Wallis, Debenhams and Shaws are just three that I spotted over the weekend having big discount posters. I wonder do some businesses bring this on themselves. Terrible.

It's easy for Wallis and Debenhams to give big discounts when you look at the price tags - their exchange rate is €1.55 to stg£1.

So they put up big bloody posters giving 20-40% off and yet still make big profit on the exchange rate!! And also protect their already large profit on the cost price!!

The one thing people forget is that our local retailers have had to buy their stock at overinflated wholesale prices too!