Liverpool v Hull Game Thread

jesus_thats_gre

slingerz wrote: »

shocking stuff. Why wasnt Agger playing seeing as he didnt play midweek either? Thought Keane would have gotten an outing alright to be fair. Drawing to Hull at home and leaving a 20m striker on the bench is crazy but typical Benitez. Michael Owen for 2.5m would be a great deal in January

Agger did play midweek.. Hypia didn't play midweek as he is not registered to play in the CL.

I agree that Owen should be signed however.

mike65

If Keane is being overlooked in favour of a midfielder with 10 mins to go at 2-2 then one can choose from only three possibilites

a) Rafa will always put not loosing ahead of winning
Rafa is an eccentric or
c) Rafa doesn't rate Keane

~Rebel~

slingerz wrote: »

shocking stuff. Why wasnt Agger playing seeing as he didnt play midweek either? Thought Keane would have gotten an outing alright to be fair. Drawing to Hull at home and leaving a 20m striker on the bench is crazy but typical Benitez. Michael Owen for 2.5m would be a great deal in January

Agger did play midweek..90mins..

herbieflowers

Tbh Keane was signed on the back of the Torres-Gerrard partnership. Perhaps when the former returns, we might see Keane in an more effective role.

jesus_thats_gre

mike65 wrote: »

If Keane is being overlooked in favour of a midfielder with 10 mins to go at 2-2 then one can choose from only three possibilites

a) Rafa will always put not loosing ahead of winning
Rafa is an eccentric or
c) Rafa doesn't rate Keane

Replacing Masch for Lucas was like for like. Masch ran the bollox out of himself and had quite a few full length of the pitch sprints. Hull were starting to take advantage of us on the break in the last 10 or so mins and Rafa probably thought that a tired Masch could pose a risk defensively. As some have pointed out, Hull are one of the best counter attacking teams in the league.

Tis not that big of a deal to be honest. As with everything surrounding Keane, this decision is been blown way out of proportion.

jesus_thats_gre

herbieflowers wrote: »

Tbh Keane was signed on the back of the Torres-Gerrard partnership. Perhaps when the former returns, we might see Keane in an more effective role.

Been trying to get people to hold off on judging Keane until Torres and Gerard are both fully match fit for weeks now.

herbieflowers

Keane had one of his best seasons last season, playing alongside another striker. It's slightly unfair - imo - to judge him on the back of performances where he's been played up front on his own / lone striker.

Jazzy

kryogen wrote: »

why write Keane off so early in his Liverpool career?

it makes no sense and its unrealistic to ask a guy to hit the ground running in a high pressure situation

true... though wouldnt mind seeing him play a game or 2 ya know

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

jesus_thats_gre

Once again, todays result is looking slightly better after United fail to capitalise. Even if Chelsea do win tomorrow, they are only 1 point ahead of us. Not ideal but of no major significance.

Angry.
Boogles, **** off

spockety

Annoyed at the draw, but fair play to Hull.

I'll tell you what though, as annoying as it is to be a Liverpool fan in the aftermath of dodgy results that make you ask "do they even WANT to be top of the table?", I would be absolutely furious if I was a United fan watching Liverpool drop points all over the shop and not be able to take clear advantage of it week by week.

As for the fans on here who are calling into question Benitez's contract extension etc., get real. Hull beat Arsenal at the Emirates, and drove United to a 4-3 at Old Trafford, they were never going to be a pushover. In fact, there are very few teams who are total pushovers, and the league always springs the unexpected, that's why it's so interesting.

After 17 matches we go to sleep tonight top of the table. Nobody elses fans can say that. And no matter who pulls out what predictions for the future (it's VERY easy to say "Liverpool have no chance", the bookies have already done it, well done), nobody has a clue what will happen for sure. Liverpool could win the title this year, and if they do one of my first thoughts will turn to those who called for Benitez's head over the years despite what he has done for the club and the fans morale since he came.

RasTa

spockety wrote: »

Annoyed at the draw, but fair play to Hull.

I'll tell you what though, as annoying as it is to be a Liverpool fan in the aftermath of dodgy results that make you ask "do they even WANT to be top of the table?", I would be absolutely furious if I was a United fan watching Liverpool drop points all over the shop and not be able to take clear advantage of it week by week.

.

To be honest most United fans including myself have written off Liverpool already.

Chardee MacDennis

Anfield was ridiculously quiet at times today...

kingshankly

BastardPrince wrote: »

Anfield was ridiculously quiet at times today...

its one of the worst grounds in the premiership for atmosphere this season until the big teams come to town

herbieflowers

you could probably level that criticism at any of the other Top Four sides' fans.

opr

I was having a look at Hull's away record and its awesome , they have only lost one game which was to Man U and have beaten the likes of Arsenal and Spurs. Given this and the fact we were 2-0 down a draw on reflection doesn't seem that bad a result.

This said the match has left me thinking more and more about Rafa !

I disagree with people who say Rafa hasn't put together a side capable of winning the premiership. While not perfect I am actually excited as a fan of the squad we have put together and think we have an outstanding chance of being in this title race come the "shake up" but .........

This is not me Rafa bashing as i do love the man, i love that he loves Liverpool, i love that hes making us a force again, i love that hes brought us a champions league, i love him for buying Torres ..... the list goes on and on but you get the point - I LOVE RAFA !

Alas with all good love affairs he drives me nuts sometimes.I have no problem with him making decisions that i don't agree with as in general Rafa knows the club,players,football etc much better than i do.

However something like making a substitution with five minutes left in a football game that your trying to win isn't rocket science and while not everyone will have the same choice generally arguments can be made for a players case but i feel bringing on Lucas today had no rhyme nor reason to it and i felt if Alex was watching Liverpool play he had a little snigger as the change was being made.

What ever side of the fence your on in regards to Rafa i think few will understand some of the things that he did today. I hope i am wrong but i feel at times he plays to his own eccentricities and doing the obvious feels in someway like hes not doing it his way.

I am not sure were that leaves me and Rafa.

Opr

mike65

Not often I agree with Ray Houghton but he was bang on the money when he observed that had Keane started and played as badly as Kuyt he'd have been hauled off a half-time.

LuckyLloyd

Listen to some of ye way overreacting as per usual. Get a ****ing grip. Listening to some of the Liverpool fans on here after average results makes me think that we don't deserve to win the league. More and more it seems to me that we are a poxy bunch of fans and should be consigned to a few more years of pain. At least then we might appreciate being where we are at this stage of the season. You should all be ashamed.

Sherifu

I hate you all.

Chardee MacDennis

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Listen to some of ye way overreacting as per usual. Get a ****ing grip. Listening to some of the Liverpool fans on here after average results makes me think that we don't deserve to win the league. More and more it seems to me that we are a poxy bunch of fans and should be consigned to a few more years of pain. At least then we might appreciate being where we are at this stage of the season. You should all be ashamed.

well i should hope any criticism i make is taken in the context that i am f*cking chuffed to be top of the league, it is just a little frustrating for us to be in the position we are for the first time in years and thinking we could be pushing that little bit further and making sure we have less work to do the other side of xmas.

i have said from the start of this campaign that if we are in the running come March/April I will be very happy with this season, it is a huge step to be a genuine contender again and as I have pointed out before no team has won the premier league for the first time without finishing 2nd the previous season (well one team came 3rd losing out on goal difference but i cant remember who, blackburn maybe)

Melion

I cant understand Liverpool fans at the minute. For years and years we've given out about everything and anything we possibly could find to give out about, now finally after nearly 20 years we have a squad that is seemingly able to push for the title and still its not good enough for a lot of you. What the hell does Rafa have to do to prove to us that he is the man to lead us to the title? Big fúcking deal, he brought on El Zhar instead of Keane today, so far this season El Zhar has shown a lot more drive and actually looks like he wants to play for Liverpool. He came on against Wigan and won us the game at Anfield.

Who cares, we drew against Hull. They beat Arsenal and Spurs away this year, anyone who thought this would be a case of just showing up and winning obviously doesnt have a clue about football. I'm confident enough that if we had gone 2-0 down to them this time last year then it would have been over and we'd have lost the game. Everyone giving out saying we are drawing too many games at home this season. Yeah, that may be so but we are winning more games too. We are in the middle of December, top of the table and have only lost 1 fúcking game. We are 5 points better off now than we were after 17 games last year.

Finally, just remember what team you are following. Show a bit of respect and try not to be as fickle as other fans around here.

P.S, i can't fúcking wait to look through this thread in March/April/May just to shove it down the throats of everyone slating Rafa.

Pyjamarama

Melion wrote: »

I cant understand Liverpool fans at the minute. For years and years we've given out about everything and anything we possibly could find to give out about, now finally after nearly 20 years we have a squad that is seemingly able to push for the title and still its not good enough for a lot of you. What the hell does Rafa have to do to prove to us that he is the man to lead us to the title? Big fúcking deal, he brought on El Zhar instead of Keane today, so far this season El Zhar has shown a lot more drive and actually looks like he wants to play for Liverpool. He came on against Wigan and won us the game at Anfield.

Who cares, we drew against Hull. They beat Arsenal and Spurs away this year, anyone who thought this would be a case of just showing up and winning obviously doesnt have a clue about football. I'm confident enough that if we had gone 2-0 down to them this time last year then it would have been over and we'd have lost the game. Everyone giving out saying we are drawing too many games at home this season. Yeah, that may be so but we are winning more games too. We are in the middle of December, top of the table and have only lost 1 fúcking game. We are 5 points better off now than we were after 17 games last year.

Finally, just remember what team you are following. Show a bit of respect and try not to be as fickle as other fans around here.

P.S, i can't fúcking wait to look through this thread in March/April/May just to shove it down the throats of everyone slating Rafa.

I agree 100%. I'd also bet my aul ones @ss that Melion is just back from the pub!!!

kingshankly

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Listen to some of ye way overreacting as per usual. Get a ****ing grip. Listening to some of the Liverpool fans on here after average results makes me think that we don't deserve to win the league. More and more it seems to me that we are a poxy bunch of fans and should be consigned to a few more years of pain. At least then we might appreciate being where we are at this stage of the season. You should all be ashamed.

the reason everyone is so pissed is the amount of chances were giving up to go clear and the quality of our football lately is very poor. some of the decision regarding team selection and substitutions today were questionable to say the least .some people on here are over sensitive as soon as the team or rafa get criticised there up in arms.this is our best chance in a long time to win the league if we could just get a bit of form going.ithe criticism is not limited to the boards its being echoed on irish kop, lfctv forums and on high stools throughout merseyside

Melion

Pyjamarama wrote: »

I agree 100%. I'd also bet my aul ones @ss that Melion is just back from the pub!!!

Nope, only just watched the match. I was in Thomond Park today so didnt get a chance to watch it live

Ardent

Melion wrote: »

P.S, i can't fúcking wait to look through this thread in March/April/May just to shove it down the throats of everyone slating Rafa.

Well I hope you do. Then you'll see how some called it for what it really was.

Apart from a few fortunate results earlier in the season, we've been largely rubbish. We'll be out of the title race again by the end of February - please quote me on that.

bUILDERtHEbOB

Disappointing result, we definitely should have won though, but we're still top of the league, and so far we haven't given any ground up, so it's not too bad.

mike65

Melion whats NOT good enough is crappy disinterested draws against Fulham, West Ham etc.

Today they showed decent drive and Hull are clearly well above those two teams, that doesn't excuse Rafas arse about face thinking, which was open to question the moment the team sheet was revealed, if I know Kuyt is not a lone striker why doesn't Rafa? It was a fundamental error. And before anyone says well we shouldn't have given the opposition a 2 goal start (which is true) climbing the mountain would have been much
easier with a 4-4-2 given the attacking options availible.

I'm very happy to be on top (until about teatime tomorrow) but I'm also teed off that
6 good points at home were blown due to a mix of conservative thinking and frankly poor finishing. The margins are narrow, had Hyypias header gone in the moaning woudn't happen in this particular thread, but anyone watching can see Lfc is not in any way, shape or form playing like a side that we could confidentaly belive will win the league (not that I ever thought that was really on this season), if it happens it'll cos Torres comes back and stays fit along with Gerrard and a few mishaps by other sides rather than because of any sustained pressure.

spockety

Ardent wrote: »

Well I hope you do. Then you'll see how some called it for what it really was.

Apart from a few fortunate results earlier in the season, we've been largely rubbish. We'll be out of the title race again by the end of February - please quote me on that.

Being out of the race by February would be an improvement on previous seasons.

Mr.Nice Guy

Very strange that he didn't bring on Keane. It would seem he has little faith in him now. Doesn't bode well for Keane's future at the club.

spockety

Maybe he thinks there's no point lumping Keane on as he is ineffective as a target man. Perhaps Rafa is waiting for Torres to come back so he can give the two of them a run out together.

Who knows, for sure?

Pyjamarama

I expected to see him myself but in Rafa we trust!!!

To be honest i'm dying to see Nemeth given a chance when Nando is out but we can't really risk it right now i suppose...

Jazzy

£20m to sup lucozade while we draw to hull at home. hes a bad buy, simple as.

ah well tho, we will have the usual brigade giving their bent and tinted opinions saying how he isnt a bad buy as that would look bad on rafa or some such.


cos fergie and jose never bought bad players... no way. matjia kezman - quality

Boggles

I think Rafa brought on Lucas instead of Keane because Hull looked likely to nick it. Keane is never going to be an impact substitute in my opinion and would need alot more than 15 - 20 minutes.

More worryingly for Liverpool was the other 2 subs, they seem to hamper Liverpools attack more than inhance it.

Then again I think Rafa is suspect tactically, I think Hull are a suberb counter attacking team, the best way to beat them is ovbiously score more than them, Rafa was never going to do that starting the match with no stiker. Baffling.

As for United not capitilising on Liverpools "poor" result, they were playing Spurs away, and were fortunate enough to get the same result last season.

Chelsea will hockey West Ham today IMO, and will top the table, United havn't got started yet, but Liverpool are predictable in what they are doing, it was draws that killed them last season, and looks like draws are killing them this season, the reason: Rafa is over cautious, it would kill him to lose a game when he knows in his own mind he can take the draw at any stage instead of pushing on and getting the win. Managers who engage in over caution do not win the premeir league.

Melion

Has one of the "pundits" on Sky/RTE etc said recently that Rafa would prefer to not lose a game rather than win it? Its getting rolled out a lot here in the last few weeks so i presume you lot must have heard it somewhere

Boggles

Melion wrote: »

Has one of the "pundits" on Sky/RTE etc said recently that Rafa would prefer to not lose a game rather than win it? Its getting rolled out a lot here in the last few weeks so i presume you lot must have heard it somewhere

Never heard that, my preferred football package is German and I barely speak english, they are bang on the money thou.

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

Managers who engage in over caution do not win the premeir league.

Huge sample size imo. Love a stupid sweeping statement on a Sunday morning.

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Huge sample size imo. Love a stupid sweeping statement on a Sunday morning.

Could you point out which part of it was stupid for us stupid people oh great big brained one?

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

Could you point out which part of it was stupid for us stupid people oh great big brained one?

You've had 16 seasons of the premiership. This man says hi:

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You've had 16 seasons of the premiership. This man says hi:

Lucky your being more vauge than usual, don't think old brown envelope there won the Premeir league did he?

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

Lucky your being more vauge than usual, don't think old brown envelope there won the Premeir league did he?

Well, when he won it they weren't calling it the premier league. In 16 years you have had four managers win the league. Dalglish played a very different brand of football to Wenger; much as Mourinho is relatively more cautious than Ferguson and set his Chelsea teams up in a very different fashion. They all demonstrate in their own way that there is multiple ways to skin a cat.

16 years when taken in context of the entire history of English league football is an irrelevant data set. Half way through 1992, you might have felt confident enough to say that a manager like Wenger couldn't win the English league - following Kendall, Dalglish, Graham and Wilkinson. As such, grand statements about what can and can not win things in football are lol. There is always a first time for everything; and cycles come and go.

Get it now?

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well, when he won it they weren't calling it the premier league. In 16 years you have had four managers win the league. Dalglish played a very different brand of football to Wenger; much as Mourinho is relatively more cautious than Ferguson and set his Chelsea teams up in a very different fashion. They all demonstrate in their own way that there is multiple ways to skin a cat.

16 years when taken in context of the entire history of English league football is an irrelevant data set. Half way through 1992, you might have felt confident enough to say that a manager like Wenger couldn't win the English league - following Kendall, Dalglish, Graham and Wilkinson. As such, grand statements about what can and can not win things in football are lol. There is always a first time for everything; and cycles come and go.

Get it now?

I was talking about the premier league, dismissing 16 years of the only relevant data we can go on as irrelevant is something alright.

If you are discussing the entire history of the English league you have to mention this guy.



But then again I was talking premeir league and as far as I'm concerned until I have been proved wrong, over cautious managers who are content with draws do not win the PREMIER LEAGUE.

Do you get it now?

RasTa

Lloyd what are your thoughts on your manager not bringing on Keane in the last two Premiership games against Blackburn and Hull when needing a goal. Surely you let out a big sigh when Lucas trotted on?

Melion

Lucas and El Zhar pose as much of a goal threat as Keane lately so i cant see how it makes a difference.

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

I was talking about the premier league, dismissing 16 years of the only relevant data we can go as irrelevant is something alright.

If you are discussing the entire history of the English league you have to mention this guy.



But then again I was talking premeir league and as far as I'm concerned until I have been proved wrong, over cautious managers who are content with draws do not win the PREMIER LEAGUE.

Do you get it now?

So, when they called it the premiership in 1992 did it morph into a completely different competition to what it was in 1991 when the King of dull football won it?

I get the train of though that produces your ridiculous conclusion, and am smart enough to understand how wrong it is. Your logic is that nothing ever changes in football and are arguing that a manager or a team that is sharply different in approach to Ferguson or United will never win the Premier league.

I am simply pointing out that such a confident statement which attempts to apply certainty to the outcome of an utterly unpredictable future on the basis of trends of the recent past is idiotic in the extreme. But by all means, carry on at your leisure.

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So, when they called it the premiership in 1992 did it morph into a completely different competition to what it was in 1991 when the King of dull football won it?

I get the train of though that produces your ridiculous conclusion, and am smart enough to understand how wrong it is. Your logic is that nothing ever changes in football and are arguing that a manager or a team that is sharply different in approach to Ferguson or United will never win the Premier league.

I am simply pointing out that such a confident statement that looks into an utterly unpredictable future is idiotic in the extreme.

I'm going on fact your going on faith, I'm idiotic?. I'll leave you alone, no doubt you will be curling up by the fire on this cold Sunday and reading the Mystic Meg column.

LuckyLloyd

RasTa wrote: »

Lloyd what are your thoughts on your manager not bringing on Keane in the last two Premiership games against Blackburn and Hull when needing a goal. Surely you let out a big sigh when Lucas trotted on?

I mean, after watching Keane live on Tuesday I would have started him. I'd have hauled off Kuyt after 60 mins. But so what? What I would do is irrelevant. I wouldn't have stuck Hamman on at half time in the CL final in 2005 either. At the end of the day, as fans we don't really have a ****ing clue. We like to think we do though.

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I wouldn't have stuck Hamman on at half time in the CL final in 2005 either.

I would have started him.

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

I'm going on fact your going on faith, I'm idiotic?. I'll leave you alone, no doubt you will be curling up by the fire on this cold Sunday and reading the Mystic Meg column.

The constant fact in football over the years is that what you think won't happen invariably can and will. In 1992 the facts indicated that Liverpool wouldn't possibly go 16 straight years without a league title. Anyway, I'm done trying to explain this to you.

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In 1992 the facts indicated that Liverpool wouldn't possibly go 16 straight years without a league title.

Enter the premeir league. Still irrellevant?