Liverpool v Hull Game Thread

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

Enter the premeir league. Still irrellevant?

Yes Boggles. It's still the same league. That they called it something different would have affected little about the trending that developed throughout the nineties.

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes Boggles. It's still the same league. That they called it something different would have affected little about the trending that developed throughout the nineties.

You might want to read up on the history of it Lucky. It's not the same league to begin with. Once your finished reading Meg, have a look at it.

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

You might want to read up on the history of it Lucky. It's not the same league to begin with. Once your finished reading Meg, have a look at it.

Sigh. I'll bite. Explain to me how the change to the premier league in 1992 was more of a cause for Liverpool's decline in the 1990's than the tenure of Souness? Or how a huge monetary investment in Blackburn by Jack Walker wouldn't have brought the same short term success in the old First Division? And how football just became incredibly different in August 1992?

This should be good I guess.

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sigh. I'll bite. Explain to me how the change to the premier league in 1992 was more of a cause for Liverpool's decline in the 1990's than the tenure of Souness? Or how a huge monetary investment in Blackburn by Jack Walker wouldn't have brought the same short term success in the old First Division? And how football just became incredibly different in August 1992?

This should be good I guess.

One word Money.

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

One word Money.

lawl. I'm sold.

PHB

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Once again, todays result is looking slightly better after United fail to capitalise. Even if Chelsea do win tomorrow, they are only 1 point ahead of us. Not ideal but of no major significance.

I disagree. Chelsea going top if something you never want to see. It's a pyschological thing, especially when they consider United their chief rivals, they have a 4 point lead of. When Chelsea plays get going, and they'll get going better after Christmas, it's a scary thing. Them being on top will help them lots.

kida

mike65 wrote: »

If Keane is being overlooked in favour of a midfielder with 10 mins to go at 2-2 then one can choose from only three possibilites

a) Rafa will always put not loosing ahead of winning
Rafa is an eccentric or
c) Rafa doesn't rate Keane

its a and I have been saying this for years - his priority is not losing. He felt Hull offered something on the counter attack and was afraid to go for it.

eZe^

PHB wrote: »

I disagree. Chelsea going top if something you never want to see. It's a pyschological thing, especially when they consider United their chief rivals, they have a 4 point lead of. When Chelsea plays get going, and they'll get going better after Christmas, it's a scary thing. Them being on top will help them lots.

Plus, when Barca win the league so do Chelsea. Ominous... :pac::pac::pac:

~Rebel~

kida wrote: »

its a and I have been saying this for years - his priority is not losing. He felt Hull offered something on the counter attack and was afraid to go for it.

Ah come on, to be fair like, he brought on Babel, and El zhar, two of our better influences from the bench this season. And he also brought on our best creative influence from midweek in Lucas.

Rather then yet more cliche's being given about Rafa, lets just look at the facts.

Midweek; How much impact did Keane have when PSV had players back defending? Very very little bar whinging at people and falling over. How much impact did he have once Babel and Riera scored and PSV had to push on a bit? Much more, the space suited him to be able to pass. Now, look at the last 15 minutes of yesterdays game - which scenario looks closer? And who contributed more to Liverpool going ahead under these circumstances in midweek, keane or Lucas? Only answer is Lucas.

Tusky

To save me from typing, I'll quote a post from another forum that I agree with.

Really, really frustrating. I'd love to hear Rafa explain why he waited so long to make changes, and then when he finally did try to influence things he sent El Zhar on first, gave Babel 8 minutes and didn't even bother with Keane. It was obvious Kuyt was having an awful game, and yet he stays on for the full game. If that was Keane he'd have been hooked off after 60, whereas Kuyt is seemingly untouchable.

Benayoun was p*ss poor as well. How many attacks do we need to see breaking down because he's trod on the ball or aimed his pass behind the runner before Babel is given, at the very least, a run of two or three games out wide to show what he can do.

I know we're still top of the league, but I genuinely think we've blown it. Looking at the fixtures for the rest of the season I can't see another run of games where we can genuinely say 'we should be winning all of them.' In a run against Fulham, West Ham, Blackburn and Hull - with three of them being at home, I don't think it's unfair to expect us to get 12 points out of them. Even if you draw one of those it's a disappointment, and we've thrown away six points.

I have a horrible feeling we'll look back on this run of games knowing this is where we threw away the title.

Rafas substitutions were mind boggling. WHY oh why did Kuyt last the full game, when you could see after the first 20 minutes that he was having a shocker ? El Zhar before Babel ? Babel in the 82nd minute ? Lucas for Mascherano while Keane sits on the bench ? CRAZY!

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote: »

I disagree. Chelsea going top if something you never want to see. It's a pyschological thing, especially when they consider United their chief rivals, they have a 4 point lead of. When Chelsea plays get going, and they'll get going better after Christmas, it's a scary thing. Them being on top will help them lots.

Tis impossible to gauge the psychological effects that it will have. Liverpool in recent years have generally always been the underdogs. I think they are better equipped to do the chasing. Saying that, I have no real idea as we haven't really been in this situation in recent seasons.

From purely a points perspective, the result wasn't the catastrophe that it could have been if United won.

I also refuse to take the doom and gloom stance that quite a few here have.

kida

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ah come on, to be fair like, he brought on Babel, and El zhar, two of our better influences from the bench this season. And he also brought on our best creative influence from midweek in Lucas.

At home against Hull he played Mascherano and when replaced him with another midfielder
He played the entire match with 1 striker with a 20M player on the bench
He brought babel on with 8 mins to go

Melion

kida wrote: »

At home against Hull he played Mascherano and when replaced him with another midfielder
He played the entire match with 1 striker with a 20M player on the bench
He brought babel on with 8 mins to go

Enough of this 20m shít. Keane hasnt been good enough so far, whats the problem?

jesus_thats_gre

Tusky wrote: »

To save me from typing, I'll quote a post from another forum that I agree with.



Rafas substitutions were mind boggling. WHY oh why did Kuyt last the full game, when you could see after the first 20 minutes that he was having a shocker ? El Zhar before Babel ? Babel in the 82nd minute ? Lucas for Mascherano while Keane sits on the bench ? CRAZY!

Kuyt should have been taken off..

El Zhar offered far more than Babel did in the yesterdays match.

Keep ignoring that a few have pointed out that Masch was swapped for Lucas as Masch looked tired and it was looking increasingly likely that Hull could sneak one on the counter in the last 10 mins. As much as we needed to win the match, we really didn't need to be loosing it.



All this crap is driving me crazy.

careca

Thats a good post that Tusky quoted. Too many of us (myself included) saying Keane should be on. The biggest disappointment yesterday was the timing of the subs, albeit the Lucas one was v strange. I could be very wrong here and I'll happily admit it if I am, but Benitez always seems to make his changes from 65 mins on, normally after 70 mins (excluding injuries obviously). Its just not enough time for players to make an impact. I was at the Wigan game and I applauded his decision to take off the two full backs and go for it, so why not the same yesterday? I've said it already on this thread, but there is no need for Masch yesterday or in similar games. Brilliant at what he does but he and Alonso both sit back too deep for my liking, so rest one of them for home games against "so called" inferior opposition. If we are two up then by all means change it with twenty to go to hold whats ours.

Lloyd, your posts are always on the money, but fellows are coming on here complaing, because we know we can do so much better. Of course we would have taken the league position now at the start of the season, but overall we are not playing well and certainly not capitalising on Utd/Chelseas average form also.

~Rebel~

kida wrote: »

At home against Hull he played Mascherano and when replaced him with another midfielder
He played the entire match with 1 striker with a 20M player on the bench
He brought babel on with 8 mins to go

Dont get me wrong, i disagreed with a lot of his choices, but i just Hate it when people just roll out cliches without backing them up with reasoning and logic.

I disagree with the timing of his subs, but his choices of who came on i thought were fairly sound. The 3 i would have taken off would have been Kuyt, Yossi and Masch though.

kida

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Dont get me wrong, i disagreed with a lot of his choices, but i just Hate it when people just roll out cliches without backing them up with reasoning and logic.

I disagree with the timing of his subs, but his choices of who came on i thought were fairly sound. The 3 i would have taken off would have been Kuyt, Yossi and Masch though.

what about playing Mascherano and Alonso from the start and only playing one up front - its not only the substitutions

jesus_thats_gre

kida wrote: »

what about playing Mascherano and Alonso from the start and only playing one up front - its not only the substitutions

Has Ferguson ever started with Fletcher and Carrick in the middle at home?

bUILDERtHEbOB

About us playing with one up front, if Gerrard was playing as a cm he wouldn't have scored those two goals, given the form Keane is in I doubt he'd have scored and we would've been more vulnerable to counter attacks.

Kuyt and Keane did not work against West Ham, Rafa was right to try something different and it should have worked but for a stupid own goal.

Pyjamarama

I find it funny that United fans constantly come on here saying Pool aren't going to win the league cause of results and performances like this etc etc etc. And that United haven't started yet but wait til they do... Anyone think that the Lack of CQ may be having an actual impact on Uniteds play because I haven't been impressed at all with them this season. Maybe Fergie is no longer the tactical genius he once was??

Back on topic though we're top for a little while longer and that is improvement. Sure we should be winning these games but United should be beating Newcastle, Arsenal should be beating Boro and Chelsea should be beating everyone! Results like this can happen, Hull are a solid team and while a draw is a bad result it's not shocking.

People cry out for us to play with 4-2-3-1 when we draw/lose playing 4-4-2 and now people are crying about the fact that we only played one up front... madness!!!

Still cant get over some of Rafa's decisions yesterday. What a load of Bollix tbh.

SantryRed

I don't understand why he thinks he has to use that system every game?

Against the teams that will defend why not go 4-4-2? Babel and Riera on the wings.

With Rafa doing what he is yous have no chance.

bUILDERtHEbOB

SantryRed wrote: »

I don't understand why he thinks he has to use that system every game?

Against the teams that will defend why not go 4-4-2? Babel and Riera on the wings.

With Rafa doing what he is yous have no chance.

We played 4-4-2 against West Ham, Fulham and Stoke and drew them all 0-0, at home.

jesus_thats_gre

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

We played 4-4-2 against West Ham, Fulham and Stoke and drew them all 0-0, at home.

Woah there cowboy, we don't like facts being brought into these discussions!!

LuckyLloyd

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

We played 4-4-2 against West Ham, Fulham and Stoke and drew them all 0-0, at home.

Aww, you dismissed his comprehensive analysis. And to think he took all that time to research his position too.

ButcherOfNog

I can see why Rafa did not bring Keane on, we were getting down the sides and throwing in alot of crosses, Kuyt, for all his muck-ups yesterday, is much more likely to get on the end of something like that.

Rafa brought on 2 fresh wide players and an attacking midfield player for Masch. We missed Torres big time in this game. He's have stuck at least one of Kuyt's chances away.

SantryRed

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

We played 4-4-2 against West Ham, Fulham and Stoke and drew them all 0-0, at home.

With Kuyt on one wing. Why not play him up front in them games? Bring a player who will play wide. Is Pennant still with Liverpool? He may not be as good as Kuyt but he'd do a job in stretching the game right across the pitch.

jesus_thats_gre

El Zhar has taken Pennant's place in the squad, i.e. he is the second choice right winger after Kuyt.

jesus_thats_gre

Oh yeah, come on West Ham!!!

jesus_thats_gre

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Oh yeah, come on West Ham!!!

Indeed

sweetie

crazy, top 4 all draw again. nobody wants to win this thing!