All the same god?

midlandsmissus

Hello, in a different thread I said that I beleived all religions are good. At this, some-one said to me that this is the opposite of what the christian church teaches, 'do not worship false idols'. It certainly is the teaching of the cristian church not to worship false idols, but I dont believe other religions are actually worshipping false idols.

I wanted to start a new thread on the matter because I am really interested in what people's views on this are. Could not the god in each religion on earth be the same god?

Here was my argument:

All religions are based around a god obviously. The God in every religion has a different name. In my opinion each god that people believe in is the same god. They just have different names due to different languages and cultures. So it doesn't matter what group you affiliate yourselves with. It doesnt matter. It just depends on your geographical circumstances. Lets look at each main religion:


Islam - Muslims believe in a God who dictated the quoran to Muhammad. Now could muhammad not maybe be their name for the person we call moses. Just different societies give different names? Or maybe there was different prophets sent to different continents. People obviously base their religion around the one theyve heard about. Just because I believe in Jesus and moses, doesnt mean i dont think there could have been other teachers in different places around the world. why not? Muslims believe in many similiarites such as the angel gabriel. Muslims mainly believe jews and christians to be wrong because they distorted the revelations in the quoran. Not that judaism and christiany are completely wrong. just that they went off on a different branch

Hinduism - beleive in god, eternal souls and angels. they call God 'Brahman'. Who is to say this is a different god to the one i believe in? just a name in their language for him?

Judaism - very similiar to christianity, they believe in the 'God of Abraham'. believe in jesus, the only difference is they believe he was a prophet not the son of god.


Buddhism - believe in the prophet Buddha. Who's to say god didnt send a prophet to india to teach there. christianity wouldnt include it because obviously it happened in a faraway area, so people wouldnt have known about it. it makes sense to me for a prophet to have existed in india to influence their religions, and not be in the western world religions.

Buddhists believe in heaven and hell the same as christians do- just different levels of heaven and different levels of hell. They call heaven nirvana.

If you look at all the main religions they all have very similiar ideologies. Alot of religions feature in other religions. In my personal opinion, the god everyone believes in, call him allah, god or whatever, is the same god.

Now last of all, I would call myself a christian, but that doesnt mean i believe every single thing set out for me by churches or the bible. I disagree with things. I question things. I say to myself 'it was a human who wrote that, and whos to say they know any more than i do'. The bible isnt the final word to me. Who's to say it hasnt got distorted over years of translation. I beleive you have to find your own way to god. Not read or let other people tell you what to do.

If you're calling yourself something it doesnt mean you cant disagree with some of the teachings. I wish atheists on here would understand this. you make your own way. it's all about your own personal path. that's what i really beleive.

I beleive in jesus which is why i call myself a christian. but i disagree with alot of things the christian church teaches. I think original teaching becomes easily warped and changed through humans, as it is very easy and probably human nature to bend religion for their own personal gain and power.

I make my own way.

PDN

Are you looking for atheist responses since you've posted this in the A&A forum?

Seems to be it could be quite a predictable thread given that you are asking people who don't believe in God whether they think all gods are in fact the one true God.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Some people say Santa Clause, some people say Kris Kringle, either way it's a fictional character.

Dades

I'm assuming mm is looking for non-believer responses though I'm happy to move the thread if required.
In fact if it was moved to Christianity you get most of the same people in it anyway.

Dinner

Where does Almighty Thor & friends fit into all this?

Fanny Cradock

Dades wrote: »

I'm assuming mm is looking for non-believer responses though I'm happy to move the thread if required.
In fact if it was moved to Christianity you get most of the same people in it anyway.

Yeah, it is an incestuous little circle we operate in! It's either your place or mine, Dades.

Zamboni

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Could not the god in each religion on earth be the same god?

I beleive in jesus which is why i call myself a christian. but i disagree with alot of things the christian church teaches. I think original teaching becomes easily warped and changed through humans, as it is very easy and probably human nature to bend religion for their own personal gain and power.

I make my own way.

You didn't like the rule book so you rewrote it to suit yourself.
I hear that a lot from christians.
There are so many variations in peoples beliefs within catholicism alone that there are in essence millions of gods because you all have your own 'version'.
The answer to your question is yes or no depending on what level of fiction you want to apply to the answer.

midlandsmissus

Yeah to be honest it doesnt matter where I post it, the same people always end up on it!

I'm looking for everybody's opinion.


To the atheists/agnostics: I know you dont beleive in god, but my question is:

Alot of atheists state that religion is ridiculous as it depends on what geographical area you are born in in order to end up in the 'right' religion?

But i'm proposing 'Couldnt the god in each religion be the same god under a different name, and that alot of the religions have very similiar aspects?'

Now I dont know every single thing about every religion, so if there are people from other religions on here, please dont be offended as I know i am generalising. Its just an idea I want to throw out. As a buddhist pointed out to me already, buddhism is really the one that is the most different, I actually thought that while I was writing it, so maybe if you're answering have a look at the other religions. Just want to know peoples opinions, thanks!

OP

If OP is going to copy paste I'm sure I can be forgiven for doing the same:



Buddha was not a "prophet", buddha was a man who had some very insightful and amazing teachings based only on his own, completely human experiences. (This is contrary, of course, to the christian teachings of Jesus, to whom you compare him?)

There are so many profound differences in the entire approach to either religion [Christianity and Buddhism] I don't even know where to start.

I suggest this link as some basic reading:
http://64.233.183.132/search?q=cache:YuR8oF2LKaoJ:ankerberg.com/Articles/_PDFArchives/apologetics/AP3W1101.pdf

Lumping all religions together like this in some attempt at "we're all the same really" is, while understandable, almost insulting to many of them and shows a clear lack of knowledge about them. In one line alone you managed to dismiss the entire of the Hindu religion, with all its devas, asuras, scriptures, debates on whether it is monotheistic or hard polytheistic, its philosophies, the concept of karma and dharma which are completely different to western religions, with "they believe in god too".

And none of this of course deals with the simple variety of gods between religions: thor & co, kali (you must be joking if you think you can compare Kali with Jesus), the list goes on.

OP wrote:

But i'm proposing 'Couldnt the god in each religion be the same god under a different name, and that alot of the religions have very similiar aspects?

No to the first, yes to a degree to the second.

OP wrote:

If you're calling yourself something it doesnt mean you cant disagree with some of the teachings. I wish atheists on here would understand this. you make your own way. it's all about your own personal path. that's what i really beleive.

There is quite a difference between "disagreeing with some of the teachings" and coming out with quite a lot of statements/beliefs which are completely contrary to many of the basic beliefs of that religion.
Why you don't just say "I take some of the christian teachings without actually being a christian" is beyond me...

Nevyn

What about those that have more then 1 god ?

midlandsmissus

Zamboni wrote: »

You didn't like the rule book so you rewrote it to suit yourself.
I hear that a lot from christians.
There are so many variations in peoples beliefs within catholicism alone that there are in essence millions of gods because you all have your own 'version'.
The answer to your question is yes or no depending on what level of fiction you want to apply to the answer.

hi Zamboni,

This is the argument I always get. But answer me this, why shouldnt people question established teachings? Would you be happier if people followed them blindly? Why do you want people to all follow something like sheep? i really dont get this argument. It always comes back to :you're not being a proper christian or whatever if you question anything. that doesnt make sense to me.

midlandsmissus

bluewolf wrote: »

If OP is going to copy paste I'm sure I can be forgiven for doing the same:



Buddha was not a "prophet", buddha was a man who had some very insightful and amazing teachings based only on his own, completely human experiences. (This is contrary, of course, to the christian teachings of Jesus, to whom you compare him?)

There are so many profound differences in the entire approach to either religion [Christianity and Buddhism] I don't even know where to start.

I suggest this link as some basic reading:
http://64.233.183.132/search?q=cache:YuR8oF2LKaoJ:ankerberg.com/Articles/_PDFArchives/apologetics/AP3W1101.pdf

Lumping all religions together like this in some attempt at "we're all the same really" is, while understandable, almost insulting to many of them and shows a clear lack of knowledge about them. In one line alone you managed to dismiss the entire of the Hindu religion, with all its devas, asuras, scriptures, debates on whether it is monotheistic or hard polytheistic, its philosophies, the concept of karma and dharma which are completely different to western religions, with "they believe in god too".

And none of this of course deals with the simple variety of gods between religions: thor & co, kali (you must be joking if you think you can compare Kali with Jesus), the list goes on.


No to the first, yes to a degree to the second.


There is quite a difference between "disagreeing with some of the teachings" and coming out with quite a lot of statements/beliefs which are completely contrary to many of the basic beliefs of that religion.
Why you don't just say "I take some of the christian teachings without actually being a christian" is beyond me...

Hi bluewolf,

I accept that buddhism is the religion which varies the most from all the other main religions. what about the other ones, do you think there are similiarities in the other main religions?

midlandsmissus

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Hi bluewolf,

I accept that buddhism is the religion which varies the most from all the other main religions. waht about the other ones, do you think there are similiarities in the other main religions?

I made reference to Hinduism in both this post and my last one, please read it more carefully. Particularly given it's polytheistic

Schuhart

midlandsmissus wrote: »

i'm proposing 'Couldnt the god in each religion be the same god under a different name, and that alot of the religions have very similiar aspects?'

Just formalising it a bit, I think your essential contention is what the Bahai faith would hold. That said, I don’t know much about them – but you might be interesting in exploring their ideas, and I usually find wikipedia makes for a reasonable start. There seems to be a community in Ireland, if you find its for you.

I think you could organise the sequence of faiths a little differently. As I’d see it, you have the faiths based around the Jewish tradition. Basically, the Jews had a tribal religion that propounded the idea that they had a special convenant with the sole god and creator. Later, Jesus arrives on the scene purporting to be a or the Messiah. Jews typically don’t accept that he was. After the death of Jesus, his followers start recruiting from outside the Jewish community and the Christian faith is born.

Six hundred years after that, Mohammed claims to be getting visions from that same god. He’s living in a place that has Jews, Christians and various tribal religions. He starts a faith that draws an amount from the Jewish/Christian tradition, in particular influenced by Christians called Nestorians. Mohammed includes the legend of Jesus, but says he was not the son of god and that a doppelganger was crucified instead of him. He said Jesus will return at the end of days to take part in the final war and kill the Anti-Christ.

That’s, as I see it, the inter-relation between Jews, Christians and Muslims. Hindus, as I understand it, have an independent history to their religion, and allows for their being many gods. Buddhism, generally, holds that there is no god, but similarly had its origins in Indian spiritual tradition. And then, as Thaedydal draws attention to, you have people following Pagan traditions that would not particularly draw on any of the above. There's probably other traditions that we haven't thought of (I don't know if anyone follows the ancient Greek and Roman gods anymore). But I suppose the point might be that, while Jews, Christians and Muslims must all acknowledge a common heritage, there's other folk who would not see themselves as part of that lineage at all.

Anyway, I suppose the main point is that, indeed, there is a religion that essentially agrees with your concept that all religions have a common base.

midlandsmissus

"

bluewolf wrote: »

If OP is going to copy paste I'm sure I can be forgiven for doing the same:



Buddha was not a "prophet", buddha was a man who had some very insightful and amazing teachings based only on his own, completely human experiences. (This is contrary, of course, to the christian teachings of Jesus, to whom you compare him?)

There are so many profound differences in the entire approach to either religion [Christianity and Buddhism] I don't even know where to start.

I suggest this link as some basic reading:
http://64.233.183.132/search?q=cache:YuR8oF2LKaoJ:ankerberg.com/Articles/_PDFArchives/apologetics/AP3W1101.pdf

Lumping all religions together like this in some attempt at "we're all the same really" is, while understandable, almost insulting to many of them and shows a clear lack of knowledge about them. In one line alone you managed to dismiss the entire of the Hindu religion, with all its devas, asuras, scriptures, debates on whether it is monotheistic or hard polytheistic, its philosophies, the concept of karma and dharma which are completely different to western religions, with "they believe in god too".

And none of this of course deals with the simple variety of gods between religions: thor & co, kali (you must be joking if you think you can compare Kali with Jesus), the list goes on.


No to the first, yes to a degree to the second.


There is quite a difference between "disagreeing with some of the teachings" and coming out with quite a lot of statements/beliefs which are completely contrary to many of the basic beliefs of that religion.
Why you don't just say "I take some of the christian teachings without actually being a christian" is beyond me...[/quote]"


I'm not dismissing any religion at all. You cant expect me to know every last detail about any relgion, i wouldnt even know that about my own religion! i have studied all the different religons to some depth though, so i know there main teachings. And its just these main teachings that I think are similiar.

But what I'm saying is aswell: do you not think each different main religion is hugely influenced by the culture and history of the land in which it was formed? that is why there are different religions in different areas? and I think they are all as plausible as the next one?

Why you don't just say "I take some of the christian teachings without actually being a christian" is beyond me...[/

But that's exactly what i do say???

Zamboni

midlandsmissus wrote: »

hi Zamboni,

This is the argument I always get. But answer me this, why shouldnt people question established teachings? Would you be happier if people followed them blindly? Why do you want people to all follow something like sheep? i really dont get this argument. It always comes back to :you're not being a proper christian or whatever if you question anything. that doesnt make sense to me.

Hi mm,

You can question teachings all you want but christianity is not a democracy.
The reason it comes up is because christianity is so at odds with modern life that people for various reasons (homosexual, living in 'sin' etc) try and rationalise their faith by cutting out and ignoring the bits they don't like.
The end result is that there are people calling themselves christians but they're not really.

midlandsmissus

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I'm not dismissing any religion at all. You cant expect me to know every last detail about any relgion

Mlm, you're the one trying to propose all religions are the same with very little apparent knowledge of them. I'm not expecting anything of you except that you have some idea of what you are talking about when starting a thread on the subject. And by some idea, I mean the basics of a religion, which you seem to have demonstrated you don't know at all.

i have studied all the different religons to some depth though, so i know there main teachings. And its just these main teachings that I think are similiar.

Right. You think karma and dharma are similar to what exactly in, say, christianity? And hard polytheism, where does that come in?
How about rebirth vs reincarnation vs one life only?

But that's exactly what i do say???

you've insisted a few times you're a christian, so no, it's not what you do say.

midlandsmissus

Zamboni wrote: »

Hi mm,

You can question teachings all you want but christianity is not a democracy.
The reason it comes up is because christianity is so at odds with modern life that people for various reasons (homosexual, living in 'sin' etc) try and rationalise their faith by cutting out and ignoring the bits they don't like.
The end result is that there are people calling themselves christians but they're not really.

That's fine by me. I prefer not to have a label anyway. I'm just me, with my own beliefs. If I had to group myself christianity is the nearest thing to me which is why I call myself a chirstian. But Whatever you call me I know my own beliefs and im happy in them!

Zamboni

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I call myself a chirstian.

New sect?

rockbeer

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Why you don't just say "I take some of the christian teachings without actually being a christian" is beyond me...[/

But that's exactly what i do say???

Is it? I thought you described yourself as a christian.

Many religions have teachings that directly contradict those of Christianity. On what basis do you justify cherry-picking the often-tenuous similarities?

I'm a bit confused about what you're actually saying here. Are you suggesting that faiths should all abandon the bits where they disagree with each other? Unless they do that I really don't see how you can say they're all basically the same. The fact is that they're mostly quite different.

Mena

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Could not the god in each religion on earth be the same god?

To answer your main question as posted in the OP. No, they are too different in my view. Then again, even if they were it would not make a blind bit of difference. They're all still creations of the human mind.

destroyer

Ah but you're wrong. If you don't believe me
just ask tom cruise.

midlandsmissus

bluewolf wrote: »

Mlm, you're the one trying to propose all religions are the same with very little apparent knowledge of them. I'm not expecting anything of you except that you have some idea of what you are talking about when starting a thread on the subject. And by some idea, I mean the basics of a religion, which you seem to have demonstrated you don't know at all.


Right. You think karma and dharma are similar to what exactly in, say, christianity? And hard polytheism, where does that come in?
How about rebirth vs reincarnation vs one life only?



you've insisted a few times you're a christian, so no, it's not what you do say.

Right Zamboni,

Instead of calling myself a christian i'll say I take some of the christian teachings without actually being a christian if that makes you happier. I dont mind what you call me.

Bluewolf,
I would say karma means at its most basic level means every action has a consequence. This applies in christianity aswell?

"with very little apparent knowledge of them(religions)."

Right if you want to go down that track, ask me something, anything then! I am not as ignorant about other religions as you think. Why would I post this thread if I didnt know anything to argue with? Especially in the atheist forum? I'm not that stupid!

rockbeer

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Right if you want to go down that track, ask me something, anything then! I am not as ignorant about other religions as you think.

Where did you get the idea that Mohammed might be the same person as Jesus?

Zamboni

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Right Zamboni,

Instead of calling myself a christian i'll say I take some of the christian teachings without actually being a christian if that makes you happier. I dont mind what you call me.

Stall the ball missus, I was only joshing because of your spelling error! :pac:

midlandsmissus

rockbeer wrote: »

Is it? I thought you described yourself as a christian.

Many religions have teachings that directly contradict those of Christianity. On what basis do you justify cherry-picking the often-tenuous similarities?

I'm a bit confused about what you're actually saying here. Are you suggesting that faiths should all abandon the bits where they disagree with each other? Unless they do that I really don't see how you can say they're all basically the same. The fact is that they're mostly quite different.

No. what I'm really trying to say with this thread is in my opinion there is no one correct religion.

that is all

And to be honest with regards with calling myself 'a christian', or 'some-one who takes some of the christian teachings without actually being a christian' as proposed by zamboni, is much of a muchness to me.

I dont agree with all of the christian teachings, but I do beleive in jesus, so call me what you will.

midlandsmissus

Zamboni wrote: »

New sect?

I hope you never suffer from fat finger!:D

Zamboni

Zamboni wrote: »

Stall the ball missus, I was only joshing because of your spelling error! :pac:

I think she has confused you and me.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

midlandsmissus wrote: »

No. what I'm really trying to say with this thread is in my opinion there is no one correct religion.

therefore there is no religion which is correct therefore every religion is incorrect.

kiffer

mm I know a good few people that would be pretty insulted by the suggestion that their god was just an aspect of the judochristian god.

Heck... I actually think I know people who would be more annoyed by that then they would be with me telling them that no gods exist.

I got told off once for saying Venus and Aphrodite are the same goddess...

Any evidence for the existance of one god would open up the way for the existance of more.
It's one thing to claim your god exists but once you claim that he does is it not hypocritical to maintain that yours is the only god...

Also is Nirvana not a state of mind rather than a place you go after you die? I could be wrong there though...

Zamboni

midlandsmissus wrote: »

what I'm really trying to say with this thread is in my opinion there is no one correct religion.

Surely the next logical step it to discard religion then?

Surely?