Junior Diplomat/Third Secretary

ezra_pound

JUDE2013 wrote: »

P.S. I think that you can request to be assessed on your competency of Irish, but it's not a requirement.

Not requirement but highly advisable... If you make it to interviews.

JUDE2013

Please don't scare me like that. I have a foreign language but doubt I could string two words of Irish together any more.

How "highly advisable" do you think it is?

ezra_pound

JUDE2013 wrote: »

Please don't scare me like that. I have a foreign language but doubt I could string two words of Irish together any more.

How "highly advisable" do you think it is?

Sorry for alarm. Don't worry you'll be grand!

Basically there are bonus points given for proficiency in Irish. This isn't specific to this job but universal in the civil service. The bonus was abolished a few weeks ago but remains intact for this competition.

JUDE2013

Unfortunate timing, but I'll have to get over it. I'm sure there are others who will be delighted. I'm getting ahead of myself anyway worrying about the interviews when I've no idea how stage 2 is going to go. Thanks for the reassurance though.

hopefullegal

Are there many points awarded for Irish language proficiency? My Irish is very bad, is it worth having a whack on the basis that you might get a point or two?

The_Conductor

ezra_pound wrote: »

Sorry for alarm. Don't worry you'll be grand!

Basically there are bonus points given for proficiency in Irish. This isn't specific to this job but universal in the civil service. The bonus was abolished a few weeks ago but remains intact for this competition.

No more bonus points for proficiency in Irish. It used be an additional 6%- once you made it onto the panel (aka- it bumped you up the panel, but you had to get on the panel without the benefit of Irish to begin with).

Assessments in Irish and Irish language interviews are ongoing- and can still be requested- you just don't get extra marks anymore.

Note- this is part of Haddington Road (the abolition of extra marks for Irish)- I think there was something on the PSEU's website about it- I'll see if I can find a link.

So- you can still do the interview etc- you are noted as 'proficient' in Irish on your file- however you won't get extra marks.

To be honest- especially with these type posts- doing similar interviews in French, Spanish, Russian, Chinese (and any other languages of likely interest)- make as much sense as doing them in Irish.

It would make sense to award extra marks at an early stage in the process- rather than right at the interview backend- for language skills- esp. in cases where you are likely to have to use a language for work purposes. Knocking out good linguists- because they may have had a bad day and not picked out patterns- when they have various levels of fluency in other languages- is a bit silly.

Note- they do give classes- and you are expected to develop a competency in other languages. I took 2 years in French down in CMOD- which was quite enjoyable to be honest with you- it was 1 morning a week, and then exams every semester- you can go all the way to degree level. (Note- I'm *not* working for DFAT)

Guyanachronism

thegoatboy wrote: »

Applied for this and didnt get through. Part of me is a bit ticked off, because I have relevant qualifications and work experience, and the idea that this counts for nothing feels like a slap in the face. That said, my main interest is in EU affairs which comes under Dept of Taoiseach's remit now. I know a lot of the staff there have been seconded from DFA. Does anyone know if this is set to continue? Or will there be a competition for Taoiseach's at some stage?

I've a similar background. The problem is the civil service doesn't really value expertise, it's run by generalists. But most departments have their own HEOs/EOs dealing with EU policy in addition to their regular duties. The EU affairs division in the Dept. of the Taosieach is more about co-ordinating.

So I think you will have to apply in the next general competition and if you get it, you could get appointed to a relevant EU position inculding eventually being sent to be the representative for a department at the permanent reperesentative in Brussels.

Once in a blue moon there will be ads for EU specialists. They recruited 12 (6 "interns" and 6 officers) for the EU presidency and the Commission for Energy Regulation a couple months ago wanted a policy officer with EU policy experience.

The_Conductor

ezra_pound wrote: »

No. The extra points for Irish proficiency still hold for this competition. The new scheme hasn't been formalised and the old scheme was abolished after the closing date for this competition."

Fair enough, I didn't know it hadn't been formalised yet.

Everything else I said holds- aka, you have to make the panel independently of Irish marks- before you get a bonus (worth 6%) which bumps you up the panel.

Congo_123

I think that there may have been some additional shortlisting based on this statement, which appears at the top of the detailed application form

"Candidates should note that the information they supply in this section (Section A) of the application form will play a central part of the short-list process. The boards decision to include you on the short-list of candidates going forward to stage 2 of the process may be determined based on the information you supply at this stage."

JUDE2013

If so, that would explain the delay in issuing the invitations.

sarkozy

Congo_123 wrote: »

I think that there may have been some additional shortlisting based on this statement, which appears at the top of the detailed application form

"Candidates should note that the information they supply in this section (Section A) of the application form will play a central part of the short-list process. The boards decision to include you on the short-list of candidates going forward to stage 2 of the process may be determined based on the information you supply at this stage."

I saw that, but assumed it referred to the next stage. Very unfortunate for all those people who do have very appropriate experience but it seems that this is overlooked in favour of the psychometric tests, i.e. they produce a long-list, following which, they hold a further stage, leading to a short-list. This statement seems fudgey. Anyway, I would say, these 40 mooted positions: most of those will be put on a panel, which may never be filled.

datura

I notice it suggests wearing comfortable clothes in the familiarisation booklet but given the group exercise and being watched would you stick with formal?

Wondering about exactly what's involved in the written exercise too - are we given material to work off?

JUDE2013

I think I'll just trust the booklet and keep it casual - not tracksuit tucked into socks as white as my runners casual, but normal.

I think the written exercise involves summarising, rephrasing, extracting significant points etc., but I'd be curious to hear from anyone who's actually done it before.

gaf1983

Col711 wrote: »

I was lucky enough to make it through to the next round, are the just running stage 2 on 1 day with everyone who made it through I wonder? I was called for Monday the 25th at 11am, is everyone else who made it through the same?

I got through, I was called for Thursday 28th at 11am.

It would be nice to know how many people got through to the second round, but I guess the only thing we can do is just try our best no matter how many people made it.

I'm going to practise those Abstract Reasoning Tests some more - I practised them all morning before taking the online test, it really got me used to them, but felt I needed to to get into the right "groove".

I agree that the Abstract Reasoning Tests are quite an arbitrary measure for culling the number of applicants... perhaps it would be fairer if they were used alongside a points system for other aspects of the candidate's application?

the_real_lamp

Did people receive a reply to their email confirming their attendance at the second stage?

ezra_pound

the_real_lamp wrote: »

Did people receive a reply to their email confirming their attendance at the second stage?

Not me.

Col711

the_real_lamp wrote: »

Did people receive a reply to their email confirming their attendance at the second stage?

I didn't receive a reply either...

Col711

Just saw on Twitter that 175 people made it through to stage 2.

Fuc

Col711 wrote: »

Just saw on Twitter that 175 people made it through to stage 2.

I'm pleasantly surprised, that seems quite a low number.

Col711

Fuc wrote: »

I'm pleasantly surprised, that seems quite a low number.

I was expecting a higher number also, but it means this of us who were lucky enough to get through are in with a decent chance. Can't imagine that there will be very many in each of the sessions next week.

Fuc

Col711 wrote: »

I was expecting a higher number also, but it means this of us who were lucky enough to get through are in with a decent chance. Can't imagine that there will be very many in each of the sessions next week.

I'm not sure, but would imagine that there would be an upper limit on account of the group task.

micromurph

There will be 6 people in the group exercise. I emailed my confirmation and a few questions, and they got back to me today to answer my questions.

hopefullegal

Was anyone able to confirm with PAS whether there are 20 or 40 posts?

simo_101

Hi all,

I'm also heading to the stage two interview on Tuesday morning. Any more confirmation on that twitter figure of applicants?

Col711

simo_101 wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm also heading to the stage two interview on Tuesday morning. Any more confirmation on that twitter figure of applicants?

All I know is that it was from PAS, how many will actually turn up also remains to be seen.

simo_101

Seems encouraging anyway. My current job interviewed over 60 people for 3 positions so I fancy those odds! Best of luck to all

JUDE2013

As per Twitter, 175 have been invited for about approx. 12 jobs (exact figure not available yet).

Stage 2 tests are taking place twice a day (at 09:00 and 11:00, I'm assuming from what I've read here) for 5 days, which means about 18 people at each sitting, which will then probably be subdivided into three groups of 6 for the group exercise.

This is all just my opinion, by the way, so don't hold me to it.

ezra_pound

JUDE2013 wrote: »

As per Twitter, 175 have been invited for about approx. 12 jobs (exact figure not available yet).

Stage 2 tests are taking place twice a day (at 09:00 and 11:00, I'm assuming from what I've read here) for 5 days, which means about 18 people at each sitting, which will then probably be subdivided into three groups of 6 for the group exercise.

This is all just my opinion, by the way, so don't hold me to it.

I suppose the question of how many positions are to be filled and when is really up to dfa human resources rather than public jobs

ezra_pound

JUDE2013 wrote: »

As per Twitter, 175 have been invited for about approx. 12 jobs (exact figure not available yet).

Stage 2 tests are taking place twice a day (at 09:00 and 11:00, I'm assuming from what I've read here) for 5 days, which means about 18 people at each sitting, which will then probably be subdivided into three groups of 6 for the group exercise.

This is all just my opinion, by the way, so don't hold me to it.

I'm not convinced of the two groups a day theory yet myself as we have not yet heard of people getting different times on same day. Or am I wrong?

Col711

ezra_pound wrote: »

I'm not convinced of the two groups a day theory yet myself as we have not yet heard of people getting different times on same day. Or am I wrong?

I suppose it is possible that they just start at different times on different days. Personally, I am in on Monday at 11 but have yet to hear of anyboddy in on Monday at 9.

Fuc

What's the source for the figure of 175?

Col711

Fuc wrote: »

What's the source for the figure of 175?

It's the Public Appointments Service's Twitter account - @PublicJobs_ie

Fuc

Col711 wrote: »

It's the Public Appointments Service's Twitter account - @PublicJobs_ie

Thanks.

It seems odd that they don't know how many places are to be filled.

Col711

Fuc wrote: »

Thanks.

It seems odd that they don't know how many places are to be filled.

Yeah, I thought the same especially seeing as they are not sure how many are immediate vacancies and how many might come from the panel. But, I suppose that's a decision for DFAT at the end of the day.

Fuc

Col711 wrote: »

Yeah, I thought the same especially seeing as they are not sure how many are immediate vacancies and how many might come from the panel. But, I suppose that's a decision for DFAT at the end of the day.

True. No point getting ahead of myself.

hopefullegal

Number of posts keep dropping! 40 to 20 to 12...

Col711

hopefullegal wrote: »

Number of posts keep dropping! 40 to 20 to 12...

Fingers crossed it's 12 immediate posts cos that would fit with the estimate of 40 - that article said they were hoping for around 10 immediate postings - but could be wishful thinking on my part

JUDE2013

Col711 wrote: »

Fingers crossed it's 12 immediate posts cos that would fit with the estimate of 40 - that article said they were hoping for around 10 immediate postings - but could be wishful thinking on my part

That would make sense. The tweet in which they mentioned 12 was in reply to a question about the number of immediate appointments. They couldn't say whether this included all appointments further on or not though.

There's hope yet.

The_Conductor

Fuc wrote: »

Thanks.

It seems odd that they don't know how many places are to be filled.

They are most probably tasked with constituting a panel of 'X' number of people. Aka they will put together a panel of (say) 40 people- ranked in order from 1 to 40- and jobs, as they arise, will be offered from position 1 onwards. The panel has a stated lifespan (typically 2 years), and once the 2 years has passed, irrespective of how far down the panel they have gotten, its closed off, and a new competition held.

Towick

Col711 wrote: »

I suppose it is possible that they just start at different times on different days. Personally, I am in on Monday at 11 but have yet to hear of anyboddy in on Monday at 9.

Hi there,

I'm actually in at 9am next Monday! From what I gather it sounds like two assessments per day, 5 days next week seems accurate.

It's going to be a long day - feel tired thinking about it already. Has anyone any idea what the job simulation exercises might be? From what I've heard they're computer based...which doesn't shed much light on the issue.

Col711

Towick wrote: »

Hi there,

I'm actually in at 9am next Monday! From what I gather it sounds like two assessments per day, 5 days next week seems accurate.

It's going to be a long day - feel tired thinking about it already. Has anyone any idea what the job simulation exercises might be? From what I've heard they're computer based...which doesn't shed much light on the issue.

The job simulation exercise is to test what you would do in a given situation - there are 2 examples in the familiarisation booklet. There are no wrong answers but some answers are more right than others.

Towick

Col711 wrote: »

The job simulation exercise is to test what you would do in a given situation - there are 2 examples in the familiarisation booklet. There are no wrong answers but some answers are more right than others.

I had genuinely forgotten about those examples - thanks for the reminder!

ezra_pound

Towick wrote: »

Hi there,

I'm actually in at 9am next Monday! From what I gather it sounds like two assessments per day, 5 days next week seems accurate.

It's going to be a long day - feel tired thinking about it already. Has anyone any idea what the job simulation exercises might be? From what I've heard they're computer based...which doesn't shed much light on the issue.

OK. So that's the two sessions a day theory confirmed! Thanks for clearing that up.

Col711

ezra_pound wrote: »

OK. So that's the two sessions a day theory confirmed! Thanks for clearing that up.

So that will be 17-18 people in each session then so only 3 groups in each session.

Hey everyone, I'm going in on Tuesday at 11am. What time do you think it should be over at?

Also, what are people wearing to this? I know it was mentioned very briefly a few pages ago, but I'm not sure whether to go with a suit, or a casual outfit with a blazer or just totally casual. Decisions

JUDE2013

Hi. The whole thing is supposed to take about 5 hours, so should be done by 16:00.

I was going to dress casually, but think I'm going to wear a suit now just in case. Maybe someone going today will have a better answer for you.

By the way, best of luck to everyone starting today.

simo_101

I appreciate it's a bit late for people in today, but I'm planning on wearing a full suit for tomorrow. You can always ditch the tie and jacket if everyone else is a bit more casual.

Always better to be overdressed than under

LWB

I'm also in tomorrow at 11 and planning to wear a dress + blazer combination. It's tempting to go with something more formal though, especially as I'll be one of the youngest there and I want to avoid looking like I'm 16.

delricyo

From my experience with these events - it makes absolutely no difference what you wear. Actually, I would recommend going 100% casual. You need to be in something comfortable. And what you are wearing makes no difference at all - its not an interview !!

simo_101

delricyo wrote: »

From my experience with these events - it makes absolutely no difference what you wear. Actually, I would recommend going 100% casual. You need to be in something comfortable. And what you are wearing makes no difference at all - its not an interview !!

I have heard that about assessment centres in general, but I'd hate to be the only person in jeans and a jumper in a sea of suits!