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Misogyny unchecked in AH 'Try to rape' thread

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  • 15-12-2008 12:11am
    #1
    onewoman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭


    Why are misogynistic jokes in the above thread going completely unmoderated?

    A vicious racist remark early in the thread led to an instant band, but several misogynistic comments have apparently not led to any bans. Is it boards' policy to tolerate offensive comments about some sections of society but not about others? Why the hypocrisy?

    The anti-women comments create an exclusionary and threatening atmosphere in a forum that's meant to be open to everyone to enjoy.
    Post edited by Shield on


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    #2
    eVeNtInE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭eVeNtInE


    This post has been deleted.


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    #3
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Did you report any of the posts ?
    I would have but the last time I did it seemed counterproductive.
    Seriously I urge everyone who is upset or offended or things any of those posts are out of line to report them and give a clear message to the mods.


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    #4
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58266131


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    #5
    cornbb
    Registered Users Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    onewoman wrote: »
    The anti-women comments create an exclusionary and threatening atmosphere in a forum that's meant to be open to everyone to enjoy.

    After Hours is a very busy place, the potential range of topics available for discussion there is very broad and as such you get people with vastly different world views and different opinions on what sort of discussion is appropriate or not. I find a lot of threads there extremely funny and sometimes very insightful but the flip side of is that other threads would leave a very bad taste in my mouth. A certain amount of trolling goes on too.

    If you report a post you find offensive (by clicking the triangular button to the left of any post) then the moderators will take note of it and maybe act on it if they think the poster is trolling or otherwise breaking the rules. However I find the only way not to get offended by anything in After Hours is to simply not read it. Gotta take the bad with the good, the mods there have to make a lot of tough calls. You'll find much worse more offensive stuff on the internet after all, even in certain sekkrit places on boards...


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    #6
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    These two comments are not the same. The first one was a mindless, stupid generalisation aimed at all people in a race. It went too far and got a ban. The second wasn't aimed at all women. Therefore it's not mysoginistic at all or a generalisation.


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    #7
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58232163&highlight=rape#post58232163

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=56888983&highlight=rape#post56888983

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54229313&highlight=rape#post54229313

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52785590&highlight=rape#post52785590

    I just try my best.


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    #8
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Terry wrote:
    Surprisingly enough, there is a forum for rape jokes.
    Where?


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    #9
    MooseJam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    These two comments are not the same. The first one was a mindless, stupid generalisation aimed at all people in a race. It went too far and got a ban. The second wasn't aimed at all women. Therefore it's not mysoginistic at all or a generalisation.

    oh he was only suggesting rape victims get beaten twice as hard, well thats ok then


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    #10
    tribulus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭tribulus


    Jaysus, "Swallow it, bitch" MkII coming up.


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    #11
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Hagar wrote: »
    Where?

    Same place as all the rampant Jew jokes. Here.


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    #12
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    MooseJam wrote: »
    oh he was only suggesting rape victims get beaten twice as hard, well thats ok then

    Sorry I also forgot to say that one was out and out hatred whereas the other seemed to be a joke (albeit not a very good one).


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    #13
    Susannahmia
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭Susannahmia


    onewoman wrote: »
    Why are misogynistic jokes in the above thread going completely unmoderated?

    A vicious racist remark early in the thread led to an instant band, but several misogynistic comments have apparently not led to any bans. Is it boards' policy to tolerate offensive comments about some sections of society but not about others? Why the hypocrisy?

    The anti-women comments create an exclusionary and threatening atmosphere in a forum that's meant to be open to everyone to enjoy.

    +1 I also found this very offensive and distasteful. I also reported the post but no change so far. This is just the kind of stuff that is making me want to visit boards less and less. :(


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    #14
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Susannahmia wrote: »
    +1 I also found this very offensive and distasteful. (

    +1 AH can be very funny, but this just goes too far imo.

    And no I haven't reported any posts as quite frankly a. I'd spend the next half hour doing so, and b. it appears that in AH misogyny is almost a prerequisite for posting there sometimes :(


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    #15
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    i think you'll find that the average ah poster isn'y so much a mysoginost as a just past pubescent virgin

    i wouldn't take it personally

    this is similar to why i don't post in the christianity forum


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    #16
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,235 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    Did you report any of the posts ?
    I would have but the last time I did it seemed counterproductive.
    Ah yeah, but fun was had by all.


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    #17
    Bob the Builder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭Bob the Builder


    Personally it doesn't bother me at all. If you can't laugh at something, or at least put up with it, then I think places like AH aren't the places to hang out.

    But yeah, the first one was full of hatred, and that deserved to be dealt with. Maybe a few others deserved a ban or two, but you have to meet AH without the Politically Correct hat on.


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    #18
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Bob the Builder wrote: »
    Personally it doesn't bother me at all. If you can't laugh at something, or at least put up with it, then I think places like AH aren't the places to hang out.

    But yeah, the first one was full of hatred, and that deserved to be dealt with. Maybe a few others deserved a ban or two, but you have to meet AH without the Politically Correct hat on.

    Bob you can't honestly believe that reacting against rape jokes is being politically correct ??

    I for one didn't bother to report the thread as I didn't bother to read it. The "Swallow it, bitch" pool in feedback went to prove that I was in the minority in not liking these type of posts.


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    #19
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Ponster wrote: »
    Bob you can't honestly believe that reacting against rape jokes is being politically correct ??

    i've highlighted the important word there. imo anything is ok to joke about. everyone has their own personal sacred cows that they don't like being joked about, be it rape, religion, political party, sexual preference etc etc etc and we can't go starting a thread every time we see a joke that isn't to our personal taste. if you don't like the joke, put the poster on ignore or close the thread. now actual misogyny, that's a different story altogether and should rightly be fought against

    to quote stan marsh (of south park fame): "Either everything's ok to joke about or nothing is".


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    #20
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,235 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3RijKgfqpM


    That really ought to throw some context into it - lighten up a bit.


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    #21
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    to quote stan marsh (of south park fame): "Either everything's ok to joke about or nothing is".
    That gem's always coming up. What exactly is it based on? Is it some sort of mathematical, logical conclusion or something? "You joked about football fans, therefore it's not out of bounds for you to joke about children being gang-raped"?
    If I find a joke about how many Manchester United fans it takes to change a lightbulb funny, I'm a hypocrite if I don't find a joke about children being gang-raped funny? I don't know... do I force myself to laugh or something in order to avoid being a hypocrite?

    That "Either everything can be laughed at or nothing can be laughed at" line is a load of bollocks and I'm sick of people on Boards saying it's unreasonable for people to find some stuff funny and other stuff not funny. It's not "fascist" or humourless for people to not find really sick jokes funny... they simply... eh... don't find them funny.


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    #22
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Dudess wrote: »
    That gem's always coming up. What exactly is it based on?

    The American notion of freedom of speech.


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    #23
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    What has free speech got to do with finding stuff funny or finding stuff unfunny?


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    #24
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    In that case racism is fine also and should not be bannable. Hey freedom of speech and all that.


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    #25
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Dudess wrote: »
    That "Either everything can be laughed at or nothing can be laughed at" line is a load of bollocks and I'm sick of people on Boards saying it's unreasonable for people to find some stuff funny and other stuff not funny. It's not "fascist" or humourless for people to not find really sick jokes funny... they simply... eh... don't find them funny.
    Actually, it's perfectly valid, but it doesn't mean that it's OK to make jokes about anything at any time.
    You wouldn't make jokes about cancer patients at a cancer patient's funeral any more than you'd make dead baby jokes in an aborition clinic.

    Whether an individual finds it funny or not is irrelevant IMO. It *is* perfectly OK to make light of anything whatsoever, but there's a time and a place.

    Now, if somebody could reword that so it worked in the AH charter, that would be superb.

    How do you say that "Joking about X is not OK, whereas joking about Y is", where X is, for example, rape and Y is murder?

    Maybe something along the lines of, "This is not the pub with your mates. Be aware that you could be making light of issues which other posters have actually had to deal with in real life. We're not going to be PC-police about it, but have a little bit of cop on. Don't make jokes here that you wouldn't make at a party with strangers".

    How does that sound?


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    #26
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Dudess wrote: »
    What has free speech got to do with finding stuff funny or finding stuff unfunny?

    You asked...I answered.

    The quote from SouthPark 'Either everything's ok to joke about or nothing is" refers to an episode about Freedom of Speech, First Amendment-style, referring to the Danish newspaper printing the Muhammad jokes.


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    #27
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    seamus wrote: »
    Whether an individual finds it funny or not is irrelevant IMO.
    Well there seem to be members here who find it unreasonable if a person finds some stuff funny and other stuff not funny - literally interpreting the South Park line as "either everything's funny or nothing's funny".
    It *is* perfectly OK to make light of anything whatsoever, but there's a time and a place.
    In your opinion though. And if someone made a joke about someone having sex with a murdered child's corpse, I and others simply wouldn't find it funny - not because "oh it's so offensive" but because I literally don't see any humour value in it. And I think the two get confused. To not find that funny is not being all sanctimonious and preachy.
    "This is not the pub with your mates. Be aware that you could be making light of issues which other posters have actually had to deal with in real life. We're not going to be PC-police about it, but have a little bit of cop on. Don't make jokes here that you wouldn't make at a party with strangers".

    How does that sound?
    Very good. Although I don't see the need for the "we're not being PC" bit - as if it requires justification/apology. :)


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    #28
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Dudess wrote: »
    Well there seem to be members here who find it unreasonable if a person finds some stuff funny and other stuff not funny - literally interpreting the South Park line as "either everything's funny or nothing's funny".

    In your opinion though. And if someone made a joke about someone having sex with a murdered child's corpse, I and others simply wouldn't find it funny - not because "oh it's so offensive" but because I literally don't see any humour value in it. And I think the two get confused. To not find that funny is not being all sanctimonious and preachy.
    I'm not sure that's what they're saying. There's a difference between not finding something funny - like a bad knock-knock joke, and finding something offensive. If it was a case that you just didn't find these things funny, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Why would you care if something had no humour value in it, but otherwise didn't bother you?
    You yourself might not be personally offended by something, but you can be offended by proxy - that is, you notice that someone is offended by it, so through empathy you feel the need to take umbrage against it.

    I use "you" in the third-party form here, this is not specifically aimed at you. We have all done or do this at some point. If you were actually indifferent about the statements in question, you wouldn't bother with this discussion. :)
    Very good. Although I don't see the need for the "we're not being PC" bit - as if it requires justification/apology. :)
    The attempt is to justify a level at which moderation will take place. There's far too much focus these days on trying to avoid offending anyone. I was simply trying to clarify that the mods in AH have no intention of making sure that everyone walks on eggshells.


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    #29
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    seamus wrote: »
    I'm not sure that's what they're saying. There's a difference between not finding something funny - like a bad knock-knock joke, and finding something offensive. If it was a case that you just didn't find these things funny, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Why would you care if something had no humour value in it, but otherwise didn't bother you?
    You yourself might not be personally offended by something, but you can be offended by proxy - that is, you notice that someone is offended by it, so through empathy you feel the need to take umbrage against it.

    I use "you" in the third-party form here, this is not specifically aimed at you. We have all done or do this at some point. If you were actually indifferent about the statements in question, you wouldn't bother with this discussion. :)

    The attempt is to justify a level at which moderation will take place. There's far too much focus these days on trying to avoid offending anyone. I was simply trying to clarify that the mods in AH have no intention of making sure that everyone walks on eggshells.
    Well ok, I don't find these jokes funny and I also find them nasty and malicious. Again, I don't think I'm getting offended on someone's behalf, or getting up on my high horse, for being of that view though.

    I take exception to the "you joke about everything or you joke about nothing" line though as if it's set in stone. Surely that's a matter of opinion?


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    #30
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I take exception to the "you joke about everything or you joke about nothing" line though as if it's set in stone. Surely that's a matter of opinion?
    Taken from a policy point of view though, it can't be a matter of opinion. The basis of it is that if you decide that one thing is specifically not OK to joke about, then there's no reason why you can't use the same logic to effectively prevent people from joking about *anything*

    So in order to allow people the freedom to make even the least offensive of jokes, you have to allow scope for them to make ridiculously offensive jokes.

    In fact, it's because offensiveness is a matter of opinion, that it's not OK to put a blanket bans on jokes about a specific topic. Because what you think is offensive, I may not think is offensive. And just because you're offended, that doesn't somehow provide additional weight to your opinion.

    However because we live in a society where we all need to get along, and in some circumstances a joke can end up actually causing emotional distress, you need to apply some standards to the tone of conversation. This however can really only be applied on a case-by-case basis, and the extreme subjectivity of the matter means that a judgement in once instance does not set a precedent for all future instances.


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    #31
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    It is all about common decency really. People posting in the internet should act/behave with the same manners and have the same respect for others as they do in real life. i.e. think about whether you would pass a comment like this in public in real life. If the answer is no, then why post it online?

    People just trot out the old line about "if you can't handle it, then the internet isn't the place for you". Well IMHO that is a cop out for people with no sense of common decency.

    Of course this ideal world doesn't exist so on we go with discussions about what is acceptable on boards.ie...


This discussion has been closed.
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