jbl and hbk

mitchmeister

are we REALLY supposed to believe this storyline of shawn being broke???

those writers must think we're REALLY STUPID!

ShawnRaven

It's wrestling, nothing is supposed to be believable.
If you believe otherwise, seek professional help.

mitchmeister

ShawnRaven wrote: »

It's wrestling, nothing is supposed to be believable.
If you believe otherwise, seek professional help.

nothing is supposed to be believeable?? then why do u watch? whats the point?

the point is you're supposed to suspend your belief, that people hate each other, that people dont know the result of their match, that people have relationships with each other, that people throw real punches and kicks!

im sayin is there's no way you could suspend your belief for that storyline!

ShawnRaven

mitchmeister wrote: »

nothing is supposed to be believeable?? then why do u watch? whats the point?

the point is you're supposed to suspend your belief, that people hate each other, that people dont know the result of their match, that people have relationships with each other, that people throw real punches and kicks!

im sayin is there's no way you could suspend your belief for that storyline!

Same reason that people watch soaps or movies. To to be entertained for a couple of hours.

Do you seriously believe that everything that happens on prime time soap operas happens to every family every day? Course it doesn't!

Not there to suspend your believe. It's there for the likes of us to be able to switch off for a couple of hours. You take it for what it is.
But i'm guessing "it's still real to you, damnit!"
End of list.

CMpunked

You learn to ignore nonsensical ideas of HBK being broke regardless.

But my biggest question is where the hell are they going with it....

Anyone any idea?

mitchmeister

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Same reason that people watch soaps or movies. To to be entertained for a couple of hours.

Do you seriously believe that everything that happens on prime time soap operas happens to every family every day? Course it doesn't!

Not there to suspend your believe. It's there for the likes of us to be able to switch off for a couple of hours. You take it for what it is.
But i'm guessing "it's still real to you, damnit!"
End of list.

no things on soaps dont happen in everyday life but they are BASED on some reality! this is a little far fetched for me! you're entitled to your opinion but i think most people would agree with me that wrestling is supposed to be believeable to a degree!

but it seems everyone on this board is 'too cool' to admit that they dont wanna believe! thats right i WANT to believe, i KNOW it aint 'REAL' but i WANT it to believeable!

ShawnRaven

mitchmeister wrote: »

no things on soaps dont happen in everyday life but they are BASED on some reality! this is a little far fetched for me! you're entitled to your opinion but i think most people would agree with me that wrestling is supposed to be believeable to a degree!

I agree with you! I'd like to be too, but that stopped two years ago when they made Rey Mysterio the world heavyweight title!

but it seems everyone on this board is 'too cool' to admit that they dont wanna believe! thats right i WANT to believe, i KNOW it aint 'REAL' but i WANT it to believeable!

Then i suggest you get in the DeLorean, get it to 88mph and go back to 1997.

D.Q

i tell you what though...shawn isnt a half bad actor...

Fozzy

Shawn explained it well enough at the PPV for me to believe it

orestes

mitchmeister wrote: »

but it seems everyone on this board is 'too cool' to admit that they dont wanna believe! thats right i WANT to believe, i KNOW it aint 'REAL' but i WANT it to believeable!

You're veering very close to looking like you're trolling, be careful.

ShawnRaven

Fozzy wrote: »

Shawn explained it well enough at the PPV for me to believe it

Thanks man, that means a lot.

mitchmeister

what the hell is trolling?

orestes

mitchmeister wrote: »

what the hell is trolling?

Wiki knows all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

krudler

mitchmeister wrote: »

no things on soaps dont happen in everyday life but they are BASED on some reality! this is a little far fetched for me! you're entitled to your opinion but i think most people would agree with me that wrestling is supposed to be believeable to a degree!

but it seems everyone on this board is 'too cool' to admit that they dont wanna believe! thats right i WANT to believe, i KNOW it aint 'REAL' but i WANT it to believeable!

Hang on, so a guy going broke, which in fairness in the world of pro wrestling isnt uncommon since guys live above their means and pay a fortune to travel around isnt believeable but the other stories going on in WWE at the moment are? I really hate to tell you this but that eerie red light that illuminates Kane when hes doing something backstage? thats a lamp with a red filter on it, Undertaker isnt really dead, and he wears eye shadow, Rey doesnt sleep in his mask, Umaga can speak English, and the guys fighting each other are actually working with each other to put on a show while trying to protect the other guy in the ring instead of hurt them, and Santa doesnt exist. Thats a lot to take on board so heres a tissue to dry those tears, its still real to you dammit

kronsington

the whole angle is directly inspired by Mickey Rourke's new film "The Wrestler"

http://www.wrestlezone.com/article.php?articleid=231322348

mitchmeister

krudler wrote: »

Hang on, so a guy going broke, which in fairness in the world of pro wrestling isnt uncommon since guys live above their means and pay a fortune to travel around isnt believeable but the other stories going on in WWE at the moment are? I really hate to tell you this but that eerie red light that illuminates Kane when hes doing something backstage? thats a lamp with a red filter on it, Undertaker isnt really dead, and he wears eye shadow, Rey doesnt sleep in his mask, Umaga can speak English, and the guys fighting each other are actually working with each other to put on a show while trying to protect the other guy in the ring instead of hurt them, and Santa doesnt exist. Thats a lot to take on board so heres a tissue to dry those tears, its still real to you dammit[/QUOTE

No a guy who has a top spot in the company and had been with the company over twenty years and who has had a top spot for most of those years is NOT believeable that a he's going broke and b would work for a fellow employee.

And don't patronize me. you must be an expert on the subject cause you post on these boards.
Bet you're a big hit with the ladies

orestes

mitchmeister wrote: »

krudler wrote: »

Hang on, so a guy going broke, which in fairness in the world of pro wrestling isnt uncommon since guys live above their means and pay a fortune to travel around isnt believeable but the other stories going on in WWE at the moment are? I really hate to tell you this but that eerie red light that illuminates Kane when hes doing something backstage? thats a lamp with a red filter on it, Undertaker isnt really dead, and he wears eye shadow, Rey doesnt sleep in his mask, Umaga can speak English, and the guys fighting each other are actually working with each other to put on a show while trying to protect the other guy in the ring instead of hurt them, and Santa doesnt exist. Thats a lot to take on board so heres a tissue to dry those tears, its still real to you dammit

No a guy who has a top spot in the company and had been with the company over twenty years and who has had a top spot for most of those years is NOT believeable that a he's going broke and b would work for a fellow employee.

And don't patronize me. you must be an expert on the subject cause you post on these boards.
Bet you're a big hit with the ladies

You were warned. Banned for a week.

Fozzy

kronsington wrote: »

the whole angle is directly inspired by Mickey Rourke's new film "The Wrestler"

http://www.wrestlezone.com/article.php?articleid=231322348

That sure is reading a lot into an almost passing remark that Meltzer wrote in his live Armageddon coverage!

I don't see the similarities really. Rourke plays a down-and-out wrestler who tries to overcome the odds for one last big match. Shawn's still in main-events, he just has no money

Red Sleeping Beauty

DieselQueen wrote: »

i tell you what though...shawn isnt a half bad actor...

Tell me about it. Remember In Your House 4 when he relinquished the belt rather than dropping it to Dean Douglas ? Or RAW Live Thursday when he "lost his smile" (read: wouldn't job for Bret).... The guy deserves an Oscar! Remember Survivor Series 2003 when he was the last man pinned and Austin was fired ?

kronsington wrote: »

the whole angle is directly inspired by Mickey Rourke's new film "The Wrestler"

http://www.wrestlezone.com/article.php?articleid=231322348

I'd say it's more inspired by the "global financial crisis/meltdown/down turn/recession" boloxology.....

Although I could well imagine Vince wanting to get a piece of the pie - a big movie that has wrestling and may win awards and Vince doesn't have a hand in it.... He must be kicking himself!

SASR

I wasn't biting until his promo at the PPV, now I'm actually pretty interested in it.

slicus ricus

I'm gonna have to agree with some of what the OP says in that this angle doesn't really make sense. It's something I thought of earlier before I came on here and here's how I would sum it up.

I am aware, of course, that wrestling is highly unrealistic in certain ways. As Krudler pointed out, Kane doesn't really have a red light illuminating him and undertaker isn't really dead, etc etc. Be that as it may, I can kind of overlook that because it makes sense for their characters to have these things and enhances the entertainment factor.

However, I just don't find it plausable that HBK who has been under contract with WWE for approximately 20 years, and who i would imagine is on a 7 figure a year contract, is suddenly broke. Just out of the blue, a character who has been portrayed as a straight laced guy who we all know has earned a fortune, runs out of money! Also, have we as viewers ever been asked to believe something completely ridiculous about Shawn before? No, unlike Undertaker, Kane etc, he has been portrayed as a real life character.

Also, and possibly most importantly, I don't see how any of this benefits the show in any way. Am I entertained by the fact that undertaker can summon a bolt of lightning out of nowhere and has druids at his service on WWE tv? Yes - not because the lightning bolt is a cool piece of pyro or anything, but because it makes sense for the Undertaker character to do so.
Am I entertained by the fact that HBK is broke on WWE tv?? No.I personally don't think it makes sense for Shawn's character to be broke and be working for JBL - i don't see how it serves to do anything other than damage HBK and i certainly don't think people will want to buy into the storyline.

Fozzy

slicus ricus wrote: »

However, I just don't find it plausable that HBK who has been under contract with WWE for approximately 20 years, and who i would imagine is on a 7 figure a year contract, is suddenly broke. Just out of the blue, a character who has been portrayed as a straight laced guy who we all know has earned a fortune, runs out of money!

Did you see his promo on the PPV? I felt the same way before I saw it, but I've no problem with it now

slicus ricus wrote: »

Also, and possibly most importantly, I don't see how any of this benefits the show in any way. Am I entertained by the fact that undertaker can summon a bolt of lightning out of nowhere and has druids at his service on WWE tv? Yes - not because the lightning bolt is a cool piece of pyro or anything, but because it makes sense for the Undertaker character to do so.
Am I entertained by the fact that HBK is broke on WWE tv?? No.I personally don't think it makes sense for Shawn's character to be broke and be working for JBL - i don't see how it serves to do anything other than damage HBK and i certainly don't think people will want to buy into the storyline.

They're obviously playing off of the recession. Shawn has to do stuff that he doesn't want to, just like people earning less money are going to have to do. The reason they used Shawn for it is probably because he's one of the few wrestlers who the fans really care about

slicus ricus

Fozzy wrote: »

Did you see his promo on the PPV? I felt the same way before I saw it, but I've no problem with it now



They're obviously playing off of the recession. Shawn has to do stuff that he doesn't want to, just like people earning less money are going to have to do. The reason they used Shawn for it is probably because he's one of the few wrestlers who the fans really care about

Havn't actually seen the promo yet, was going to reserve judgement until i saw it but i only saw the end of the PPV and couldnt find the promo on youtube.

Anyway, as a well informed person who hasnt been living under a rock for the last 6-7 months, I am aware that there is a global recession and that people will have to do things they don't want to in order to make ends meet. I personally don't want to be reminded of this when I switch on Raw but that's besides the point I suppose. I'll give this the benefit of the doubt for a few weeks until i see how it plays out but i really can't see it working!

ShawnRaven

This thread is frustrating, as so few people seem to be unable to understand the promo and took it for what it was.
While others are already bashing the storyline without even watching the promo and therefore aren't even getting half the story!

slicus ricus wrote: »

Havn't actually seen the promo yet, was going to reserve judgement until i saw it but i only saw the end of the PPV and couldnt find the promo on youtube.

Do watch the promo, if you see the crowds reaction when JBL walks from the ring, the reaction is unreal. They don't like Shawn for "selling out" but they can't hate him because some may related to the story because they're either already in that situation or on the verge of it.

I am aware that there is a global recession and that people will have to do things they don't want to in order to make ends meet. I personally don't want to be reminded of this when I switch on Raw but that's besides the point I suppose. I'll give this the benefit of the doubt for a few weeks until i see how it plays out but i really can't see it working!

I hear you on that, i watch television to take a break from the misery that is reality at times. However this story will have peoples attention from start to finish, especially those who can relate to it, you can take it to the bank, the likes of myself and yourself will fall into a small minority as far as this storyline is concerned. Due to increasing amounts of fans (and in some cases, non fans that could turn into fans due to being able to relate to the story and having nothing else to do but to watch it) that will relate to it.

ShawnRaven

SASR wrote: »

I wasn't biting until his promo at the PPV, now I'm actually pretty interested in it.

I was the same, i saw the buildup before the promo at the PPV and said "yeah right, that's not gonna work", i pretty much said it in the Armageddon spoilers thread.

It did make me think though, the way smart people are thinking after the promo.
People will relate + people will tune in = Money

Because if you can't make money from a global economic downturn, what can you do?

That wacky Vince, eh? :rolleyes:

Rjd2

Lance Storm is not impressed
http://www.stormwrestling.com/121708.html

HBK - JBL?
December 17, 2008

I’ve been trying to make sense out of the JBL – HBK angle and for the life of me I just can’t. I understand what they are trying to do but unless I’m missing something, there are several monumental plot holes in this angle. Now from what I understand this angel is a bit of an attempt to play off of Mickey Rourke’s character in the movie The Wrestler, but I just don’t see how this can work inside the constructs of the WWE.

The gist this angle so far is that Shawn has blown all his money and is broke. He lived large, had a lot of expenses, gave money to his church, to charities, and to family members, and has on top of all of that; lost every dime he invested in the stock market. Because of his newfound level of poverty he has been forced to swallow his pride, go against everything he believes in and has agreed to work for JBL for the financial security employment by JBL provides.

Let me start with some of the smaller issues I have with this angle before getting into the fun part… the math. How can the math be the fun part you ask? Well I’ve been told on several occasions this week that I am very left brained, and to us left brained people Math is not only important but can also be fun. How could anyone have ever considered me boring?

Enough about my left brainedness (wow there’s a word for you) Let’s get back to this angle. While the economy and current state of the stock market does tie this angle into reality well, it does raise a very important question: Why is no one else in WWE in financial peril? Did no one else in the company invest in the stock market? I could have sworn MVP just recently had to pay back a “multi-million dollar signing bonus” yet he doesn’t seem to be too impoverished at the end of it all. I also though it funny that in Shawn’s promo at the PPV (which was exceptionally well delivered BTW) if you read between the lines he basically cautioned everyone against donating to charity or contributing financially to their church, because he did both things and is now broke and needs the money. The Irony of a born again Christian telling fans not to give to their church, amused me.

Okay that’s pretty much just nit picking, but what can I say I love nit picking. Just ask TNA fans, provided you can find any that is. Okay that was just mean, sorry… I need to get back on topic.

Here is where this angle falls apart for me and my left-brain. Shawn Michaels is still a WWE Main Event Superstar, which means he is still making millions of dollars per year. Now they have never actually said what top WWE Superstars makes on the show, but we are definitely led to believe that it’s in the millions of dollars range. In reality, I think his down side base pay is about 1.5 million and from a story line perspective MVP got more than that just as a signing bonus, so fans are to believe HBK is making at least $2 million a year as a top level WWE Superstar.

If we use that figure as his base pay, Shawn would be making approx. $40,000 per week at his current job. Even if he lost every dime he had put away, he is still way better off financially than pretty much every fan watching this show. Why would any one of these people feel sorry for him? I would hazard to guess that the vast majority of the audience makes less in a year than Shawn Michaels makes in a month possibly even a week. Shawn did cover that he didn’t know how much longer he had left as a performer but unless they do the career ending injury or have WWE fire him immediately; he’s still in far better financial shape than likely the entire WWE Universe (yah I hate that term too).

In addition to his substantial income, realistically (I realize it’s wrestling and “realistically” may not be the standard we should be using, but still), how much money could JBL really be paying him? John is a brilliant businessman, but with the state of the economy how much money would a smart businessman really be willing to spend on a rib? He isn’t doing this to be nice to Shawn, he is doing this simply to be mean and get Shawn to do what he wants. Even if JBL is spending $250,000 a year on this rib it would still only amount to a 12.5% pay increase to Shawn’s total income. Are we to believe that Shawn Michaels is selling out and becoming beholden to JBL for a 12.5% pay increase? Or worse yet, are we to believe that Shawn Michaels thinks a temporary (JBL isn’t going to employ him for ever) 12.5% pay increase is going to provide him with substantial financial security.

I get what they are trying to do and both guys do excellent promos trying to sell this angle, but at the core this thing just isn’t plausible. Unless Shawn suffers a career ending injury and can no longer wrestle and earn an income in WWE or JBL is a Multi-Multi-Billionaire who can afford to pay HBK in excess of a million dollars a year, to make him his lackey, this story just doesn’t add up mathematically. Actually that last scenario doesn’t even work because if JBL was paying him that kind of money to do so little, I wouldn’t feel sorry for Shawn, I’d be jealous and want his lackey job.

That’s my take,
Lance Storm

EdK

Shawn has 2 big pay cheques now, poor him

rude awakening

I know this is prob off topic but is this leading up to a HBK vs JBL match at wrestlemania or are we still lookin at HBK vs Taker?

CMpunked

rude awakening wrote: »

I know this is prob off topic but is this leading up to a HBK vs JBL match at wrestlemania or are we still lookin at HBK vs Taker?

:rolleyes:

We dont know yet..

mitchmeister

slicus ricus wrote: »

I'm gonna have to agree with some of what the OP says in that this angle doesn't really make sense. It's something I thought of earlier before I came on here and here's how I would sum it up.

I am aware, of course, that wrestling is highly unrealistic in certain ways. As Krudler pointed out, Kane doesn't really have a red light illuminating him and undertaker isn't really dead, etc etc. Be that as it may, I can kind of overlook that because it makes sense for their characters to have these things and enhances the entertainment factor.

However, I just don't find it plausable that HBK who has been under contract with WWE for approximately 20 years, and who i would imagine is on a 7 figure a year contract, is suddenly broke. Just out of the blue, a character who has been portrayed as a straight laced guy who we all know has earned a fortune, runs out of money! Also, have we as viewers ever been asked to believe something completely ridiculous about Shawn before? No, unlike Undertaker, Kane etc, he has been portrayed as a real life character.

Also, and possibly most importantly, I don't see how any of this benefits the show in any way. Am I entertained by the fact that undertaker can summon a bolt of lightning out of nowhere and has druids at his service on WWE tv? Yes - not because the lightning bolt is a cool piece of pyro or anything, but because it makes sense for the Undertaker character to do so.
Am I entertained by the fact that HBK is broke on WWE tv?? No.I personally don't think it makes sense for Shawn's character to be broke and be working for JBL - i don't see how it serves to do anything other than damage HBK and i certainly don't think people will want to buy into the storyline.

thank you!

mitchmeister

Rjd2 wrote: »

Lance Storm is not impressed
http://www.stormwrestling.com/121708.html

Thank you!!!

Terry

There's a worldwide recession.

rossie1977

i have seen people complain about this angle all over the place and i really don't understand the problem. nobody complained when they pretended hbk and HHH hated each other despite being best friends, even going as far as to hit his best friend in real life with a sledgehammer

take ric flair for example, the guy has main-evented for nearly 30 years and he is basically broke, hulk hogan despite making more money that almost everyone in the current WWE combined over his career still has to work on tv instead of sleeping on the millions upon millions of dollars he made (and spent) over his career

why is it so hard to believe in todays current market that hbk could be broke when the likes of roman abramovich has lost $20 billion http://www.oceanyachts.info/2008/10/11/yachts-and-sail-boats/roman-abramovich-loses-20-billion-sells-megayacht/ and sheldon Adelson more than $10 billion http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1031229.html

HBK

Its a storyline, more fool those who believe it!!!

Its a little different than the norm, so not all bad! who cares!

killyourtv

Not only is it not believable it's also boring as hell. Just retire JBL and go back to commentating.

slicus ricus

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

There's a worldwide recession.

:eek:What!!:eek: You heard it here 1st, folks!

I've seen the promo at this stage and while it was well delivered by Shawn (as always), i still don't buy it!