Victoria (AU) schools to offer atheist alternitive to religious education classes

PDN

Wicknight wrote: »

Yes but don't you reach this view based on the assertion that God's views (represented in the Bible) are the best interest of those involved, irrespective of their individual interests? A belief stemming from the idea that it is in everyone's interest to please God, which is exactly the type of thinking that humanist organisations reject?

No, I don't. For example, I believe a society should provide equal rights for homosexuals based on my preference for tolerance. I had this preference when I was an atheist (although I admit I was much worse at living up to my beliefs back then).

Zombrex

PDN wrote: »

No, I don't. For example, I believe a society should provide equal rights for homosexuals based on my preference for tolerance. I had this preference when I was an atheist (although I admit I was much worse at living up to my beliefs back then).

Yes but I'm not talking about rights, I'm talking about the best interests of a homosexual. You can give someone the right to kill themselves, that doesn't mean you think that is in their best interests.

Do you believe it is in the best interests of a homosexual to not commit homosexual acts (not to sin) in order to lead a life inline with God's wishes?

Dades

Lads - you're all aware there's nine pages of homosexuality debate here in Christianity.

PDNs views aren't really pertinent to the Aussie school system.

I will delete any more OT tosh and lock this thread.

PDN

Wicknight wrote: »

Yes but I'm not talking about rights, I'm talking about the best interests of a homosexual. You can give someone the right to kill themselves, that doesn't mean you think that is in their best interests.

Do you believe it is in the best interests of a homosexual to not commit homosexual acts (not to sin) in order to lead a life inline with God's wishes?

Without following the homosexuality rabbit trail (not raised by me BTW) - I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding humanism.

I believe in tolerance. That does not mean I approve of everybody else's actions, or that I think they are the best way to live, but I think that human dignity is enhanced by freedom and tolerance.

A vegetarian humanist may not think that eating sausages for breakfast is in everyone's best interests. But as a humanist they would not try to enforce their vegetarianism on others.

A humanist, in the classical sense, is a person who gives priority to human interests, values and dignity. This is true irrespective of whether they came to their opinions concerning those values by reading the Bible, the Koran, Plato, or Gandhi.

Tim Robbins

PDN wrote: »

So you're objecting to the statement in the article quoted in the OP? "Humanists believe people are responsible for their own destiny and reject the notion of a supernatural force or God."

Maybe you should contact the Humanist Society concerned and tell them they don't understand what humanism is?

Maybe you should do a bit of research.

Humanism is an international movement. All humanist organisations sign up to theAmsterdam Declaration.

Amsterdam Declaration wrote:

Humanism is the outcome of a long tradition of free thought that has inspired many of the world's great thinkers and creative artists and gave rise to science itself.

The fundamentals of modern Humanism are as follows:

Humanism is ethical. It affirms the worth, dignity and autonomy of the individual and the right of every human being to the greatest possible freedom compatible with the rights of others. Humanists have a duty of care to all of humanity including future generations. Humanists believe that morality is an intrinsic part of human nature based on understanding and a concern for others, needing no external sanction.


Humanism is rational. It seeks to use science creatively, not destructively. Humanists believe that the solutions to the world's problems lie in human thought and action rather than divine intervention. Humanism advocates the application of the methods of science and free inquiry to the problems of human welfare. But Humanists also believe that the application of science and technology must be tempered by human values. Science gives us the means but human values must propose the ends.


Humanism supports democracy and human rights. Humanism aims at the fullest possible development of every human being. It holds that democracy and human development are matters of right. The principles of democracy and human rights can be applied to many human relationships and are not restricted to methods of government.


Humanism insists that personal liberty must be combined with social responsibility. Humanism ventures to build a world on the idea of the free person responsible to society, and recognises our dependence on and responsibility for the natural world. Humanism is undogmatic, imposing no creed upon its adherents. It is thus committed to education free from indoctrination.


Humanism is a response to the widespread demand for an alternative to dogmatic religion. The world's major religions claim to be based on revelations fixed for all time, and many seek to impose their world-views on all of humanity. Humanism recognises that reliable knowledge of the world and ourselves arises through a continuing process. of observation, evaluation and revision.


Humanism values artistic creativity and imagination and recognises the transforming power of art. Humanism affirms the importance of literature, music, and the visual and performing arts for personal development and fulfilment.


Humanism is a lifestance aiming at the maximum possible fulfilment through the cultivation of ethical and creative living and offers an ethical and rational means of addressing the challenges of our times. Humanism can be a way of life for everyone everywhere.

Some Christians views overlap with Humanism, that's true.
But making broad comparisons are problematic. Because Christianity struggles to have an objective, agreed definition - along the lines the Amsterdam Declaration.

Zombrex

Dades wrote: »

I will delete any more OT tosh and lock this thread.

What is this strange on topic thing you talk about .... :pac:

anywhoo, my personal feelings is that I would rather the kids learned about the philosophy of science, of learning, rather than simply the question of if God exists or not.

While a lot religious people like to proclaim this question is "the most important of our time!!" (drum roll) I actually think this question is pretty minor, what is more important is developing a way of exploring the world through structured proper learning methods

Dades

PDN wrote: »

A humanist, in the classical sense, is a person who gives priority to human interests, values and dignity. This is true irrespective of whether they came to their opinions concerning those values by reading the Bible, the Koran, Plato, or Gandhi.

Would you prefer they (as in the modern day organisations) call themselves Secular Humanists?

Zombrex

PDN wrote: »

Without following the homosexuality rabbit trail (not raised by me BTW) - I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding humanism.

I believe in tolerance. That does not mean I approve of everybody else's actions, or that I think they are the best way to live, but I think that human dignity is enhanced by freedom and tolerance.

Wonderful, but that isn't Humanism.

The belief that rules you out of being a Humanism is the belief that morality and ethics comes ultimately from God, that ultimately God decides right and wrong.

Humanism is the philosophy that it is humanity where morality, rationality, ethics, comes from, hence the "human" in Humanism.

It is not simply the desire to treat other humans well. If it was that would pretty much encompass most religions, and thus humanism as a group would be rather pointless.

The idea that something like homosexuality (defined in case of confusion as the practice of homosexual acts) is wrong because God says so is totally at odds with the principles of Humanism. Interestingly this position can be taken even if one accepts that God exists.