Card Counting

herewegoagain

Do you have a good strategy..and if so did you ever use it to affection in America etc??

sm.org

herewegoagain wrote: »

Do you have a good strategy..and if so did you ever use it to affection in America etc??

Yeah drink white spirits till you wake up as Forrest Gump or rain man.

Seriously though you need an unbelievable IQ and all casino's can spot card counters after about thirty hands.

They use a very simple technique:" Sir you have won 51% of your hands over 50 hands. We believe you are a card counter. You are now barred from this casino and every other one in the U.S of A. Complaints can be lodged in the alley out the back".

ErinGoBrath

They use 6 decks in the casinos here. I imagine that would be extremely tricky to count?

ArmaniJeanss

sm.org wrote: »

They use a very simple technique:" Sir you have won 51% of your hands over 50 hands. We believe you are a card counter. You are now barred from this casino and every other one in the U.S of A. Complaints can be lodged in the alley out the back".

Too many Scorcese films watched.

I don't think they have a problem with individual people counting at all.
Most do it very poorly anyway, but the fact that people go to Vegas or Atlantic City clutching a counting book thinking they are going to break the casino, well I'd say the casinos would actually encourage this line of thinking, its good for turnover.
It only worked for the MIT guys because of lax procedures in place, such as the ability to sit at a table betting $10s until the count was in your favour, then up it to €1000s. This can't be done nowdays, ditto 6 and 8 deck shoes ahve made it more complicated.

As for throwing you out because you've won 51% of 50 hands, every customer would have been thrown out at some stage then.

And finally you won't be barred from every casino in America over doing something thats not illegal, they want your moneyz.

Dodge

There's tips on card counting on youtube. I watched them and figured I'd have an idea before playing blackjack. When actually start playing it, I couldn't remember anything and found that playing basic strategy worked fine for my small stakes purposes (see the website www.hitorstand.net)

sm.org

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Too many Scorcese films watched.

I don't think they have a problem with individual people counting at all.
Most do it very poorly anyway, but the fact that people go to Vegas or Atlantic City clutching a counting book thinking they are going to break the casino, well I'd say the casinos would actually encourage this line of thinking, its good for turnover.
It only worked for the MIT guys because of lax procedures in place, such as the ability to sit at a table betting $10s until the count was in your favour, then up it to €1000s. This can't be done nowdays, ditto 6 and 8 deck shoes ahve made it more complicated.

As for throwing you out because you've won 51% of 50 hands, every customer would have been thrown out at some stage then.

And finally you won't be barred from every casino in America over doing something thats not illegal, they want your moneyz.

Ok my post was a bit tongue in cheek but there is an element of truth to it. American casinos use a central database for supect cheaters, they reserve the right to refuse addmission so can bar you for any reason they deem reasonable. Once you're barred from one your gone from all of them. It doesn't have to be illegal or not. Sure they want your money but they ALWAYS want the odds in their favour, if they think you have an edge your gone.

You seem very sure of your info. Have you any experience of casino management, spoken to casino employees or spent prolonged amounts of time in American casinos? Or is your post based on what you think the system should be?

ArmaniJeanss

sm.org wrote: »

Ok my post was a bit tongue in cheek but there is an element of truth to it. American casinos use a central database for supect cheaters, they reserve the right to refuse addmission so can bar you for any reason they deem reasonable. Once you're barred from one your gone from all of them. It doesn't have to be illegal or not. Sure they want your money but they ALWAYS want the odds in their favour, if they think you have an edge your gone.

You seem very sure of your info. Have you any experience of casino management, spoken to casino employees or spent prolonged amounts of time in American casinos? Or is your post based on what you think the system should be?

Most of the information comes from talking to dealers and cardroom managers in Vegas. (Obviously they are not security and don't have the final say but) they said they have no problem with the majority of card counters as most do it so badly they are still losing players anyway, and are a source of revenue for other areas of the casino, even if its spending $30 on a meal.
My comment that casinos have 'encouraged the belief that card counting can win you money' came from the poker manager of an LV Casino (I won't mention which one if thats OK.)

You are definitely wrong about throwing you out if you win 51% of hands over a small sample. Basic knowledge of variance will show you that everyone will have this sort of winning run quite regularly.

Not worth arguing about anyway, stick to the poker over there :pac:

sm.org

As I explained my post was tongue in cheek, the 51% was an exageration but I just wanted to use it to highlight of how clued in casino's are when it comes to spotting card counters.

Agree with you on the poker, at least with tournie poker you cant lose a years pay in an hour.

L1m1tless

If you are seriously making a run at it counding cards you will need ALOT of practice first. The MIT guys had a big player come in when the count was good. Maybe in some of the small card clubs around Ireland you might have a good chance.

Basic Strategy table below (there are some slighty different ones about too)

Mellor

sm.org wrote: »

Seriously though you need an unbelievable IQ and all casino's can spot card counters after about thirty hands.

don't really need a huge IQ, not everyone can do it obviously. But ou just need to be able to pay attention.

sm.org wrote: »

As I explained my post was tongue in cheek, the 51% was an exageration but I just wanted to use it to highlight of how clued in casino's are when it comes to spotting card counters.

Agree with you on the poker, at least with tournie poker you cant lose a years pay in an hour.

Do you relise that card counting isn't actually against house rules? Not in vegas, not here. If you do it out loud, or make it clear its time to up your bet, then it is illegal (as you are helping other players at the table). Or, if you were betting $10, ten up'd it to $1000, the house could assume you were cheating in some other form and ask you to leave.

I know you were exagerating with the 51% of hands. But to give you an example on the other side,
In a dublin casino, it was just me and the dealer, and we spoke openly, about strategy and counting.
in vegas, I went on a reasonable run on blackjack. Played for a few hours one day, won enough to cover some of the trip cost anyway (was drinking/betting the rent). I wasn't asked to leave, instead I was giving a free meal.

trailerparkboy

Best way to make money on blackjack is to not play it , that way ure in profit before u begin, because the longer you play the more ure gonna loose.

Dodge

trailerparkboy wrote: »

Best way to make money on blackjack is to not play it , that way ure in profit before u begin, because the longer you play the more ure gonna loose.

From personal experience? is that why you want all gambling banned?

MrJetlag

You need a ton of practice to become a good card counter.

But you also need a few people with you on the table.

Basically what MIT did - a team

A great training package but expensive is available on blackjackscience.com It goes into the mathematics behind counting and also Ace Tracking which if done right can be very profitable. Also camoflaging your bets to avoid detection (this is were your team comes in)

Casinos have better security procedures in place nowaday such as being alerted when there is a hot shoe but it is not illegal to card count in Atlantic City afaik

One bit of advice i would give you is if you are in a casino and they don't open fresh sealed decks of cards infront of you when they open the table then walk away

I've actually seen this happen this side of the atlantic once and I just walked

This wont happen in Vegas

Chances are its a stacked deck which if stacked enough then the house would be unbeatable even if you played basic strategy and were the best card counter in the world.

Also counting does not work on internet blackjack but its a good way to practice your counting as it moves very quickly when you get real good


Jetlag

Donkathon

Ok here is a very basic go at card counting for ya. All cards that come out of the shoe you must give a value, 2/3/4/5/6 all have a value of (+1) because there great for the players the more of them out of the shoe before you start betting bigger the better, 7/8/9 have a value of (0) so just ignore them and 10/J/Q/K/A have a value of (-1) the idea is to start betting the min like €3 and counting untill the remaining cards in the shoe come to a + count, not sure how high the + you want but i like +7, when the count is at +7 i like to increase my bets, that doesn't mean betting like €150 of the €200 you have in your pocket beacuse nothing is a sure bet it just brings it slightly to your advantage because there is a lot of high cards in the shoe so tripple or quad up your bets, on a personal level it is hard and turns it more into work than having fun on the tables so i just dont bother for the extra work that takes the fun out of it and for the only very slight advantage it gives you i dont think it is worth it but have a go, and i'm not really sure if the security in the casino's actually care about card counters here but try it in a casino ya dont really mind getting escorted from first, or you can practice for free on that late night live blackjack on the sky think its channel 866 or around that direction, my own personal favorite in systems is the (5/6) on roulette, on the table there are 6 sets of 6, 1-6 / 7-12 / 13-18 / 19-24 / 25-30 & 31-36 if you actualy get a print out of a wheel and look at the way each of these 6 are layed out you'll see the final 6 (31-36) are the most evenly spread out and not clumped together so betting €5 on each of the other sections 1/2/3/4&5 gives you a large advantage. for every spin you only win a €5 bot your going to win 5 out of 6 spins (minus the slight chance of zero) but dont make the mistake of staying to long the last section does seem to pop up to bust the system

Crumbs

Donkathon wrote: »

my own personal favorite in systems is the (5/6) on roulette, on the table there are 6 sets of 6, 1-6 / 7-12 / 13-18 / 19-24 / 25-30 & 31-36 if you actualy get a print out of a wheel and look at the way each of these 6 are layed out you'll see the final 6 (31-36) are the most evenly spread out and not clumped together so betting €5 on each of the other sections 1/2/3/4&5 gives you a large advantage. for every spin you only win a €5 bot your going to win 5 out of 6 spins (minus the slight chance of zero) but dont make the mistake of staying to long the last section does seem to pop up to bust the system

Oh dear.

DeadParrot

Crumbs wrote:

Oh dear.

I think I might rob that system

ttm

Its a long while since I was a casino regular but in a discussion one night with the dealer about card counting and their answer was if they think its going on they just shuffle the shoe before it gets half way down.

Bobeagleburger

Donkathon wrote: »

Ok here is a very basic go at card counting for ya. All cards that come out of the shoe you must give a value, 2/3/4/5/6 all have a value of (+1) because there great for the players the more of them out of the shoe before you start betting bigger the better, 7/8/9 have a value of (0) so just ignore them and 10/J/Q/K/A have a value of (-1) the idea is to start betting the min like €3 and counting untill the remaining cards in the shoe come to a + count, not sure how high the + you want but i like +7, when the count is at +7 i like to increase my bets, that doesn't mean betting like €150 of the €200 you have in your pocket beacuse nothing is a sure bet it just brings it slightly to your advantage because there is a lot of high cards in the shoe so tripple or quad up your bets, on a personal level it is hard and turns it more into work than having fun on the tables so i just dont bother for the extra work that takes the fun out of it and for the only very slight advantage it gives you i dont think it is worth it but have a go, and i'm not really sure if the security in the casino's actually care about card counters here but try it in a casino ya dont really mind getting escorted from first, or you can practice for free on that late night live blackjack on the sky think its channel 866 or around that direction, my own personal favorite in systems is the (5/6) on roulette, on the table there are 6 sets of 6, 1-6 / 7-12 / 13-18 / 19-24 / 25-30 & 31-36 if you actualy get a print out of a wheel and look at the way each of these 6 are layed out you'll see the final 6 (31-36) are the most evenly spread out and not clumped together so betting €5 on each of the other sections 1/2/3/4&5 gives you a large advantage. for every spin you only win a €5 bot your going to win 5 out of 6 spins (minus the slight chance of zero) but dont make the mistake of staying to long the last section does seem to pop up to bust the system

Foolishproof

Mellor

Donkathon wrote: »

Ok here is a very basic go at card counting for ya. All cards that come out of the shoe you must give a value, 2/3/4/5/6 all have a value of (+1) because there great for the players the more of them out of the shoe before you start betting bigger the better, 7/8/9 have a value of (0) so just ignore them and 10/J/Q/K/A have a value of (-1) the idea is to start betting the min like €3 and counting untill the remaining cards in the shoe come to a + count, not sure how high the + you want but i like +7, when the count is at +7 i like to increase my bets, that doesn't mean betting like €150 of the €200 you have in your pocket beacuse nothing is a sure bet it just brings it slightly to your advantage because there is a lot of high cards in the shoe so tripple or quad up your bets, on a personal level it is hard and turns it more into work than having fun on the tables so i just dont bother for the extra work that takes the fun out of it and for the only very slight advantage it gives you i dont think it is worth it but have a go, and i'm not really sure if the security in the casino's actually care about card counters here but try it in a casino ya dont really mind getting escorted from first, or you can practice for free on that late night live blackjack on the sky think its channel 866 or around that direction, my own personal favorite in systems is the (5/6) on roulette, on the table there are 6 sets of 6, 1-6 / 7-12 / 13-18 / 19-24 / 25-30 & 31-36 if you actualy get a print out of a wheel and look at the way each of these 6 are layed out you'll see the final 6 (31-36) are the most evenly spread out and not clumped together so betting €5 on each of the other sections 1/2/3/4&5 gives you a large advantage. for every spin you only win a €5 bot your going to win 5 out of 6 spins (minus the slight chance of zero) but dont make the mistake of staying to long the last section does seem to pop up to bust the system

Epic system