Why is mobile 3g in the broadband forum?

Vadrefjorde

Ok so 99.99% of the people here are in agreement that the 3g kack the government classifies as broadband is not broadband..
Yet the majority of posts on boards.ie go in the broadband forum, which send the message that we in some way acknolwedge that it's broadband.
Would it not be better to make a seperate forum for non-broadband dial-upesque 3g and move all the mobile internet stuff there?

Sponge Bob

Vadrefjorde wrote: »

Ok so 99.99% of the people here are in agreement that the 3g kack the government classifies as broadband is not broadband.

99.6% !

Yet the majority of posts on boards.ie go in the broadband forum, which send the message that we in some way acknolwedge that it's broadband.
Would it not be better to make a seperate forum for non-broadband dial-upesque 3g and move all the mobile internet stuff there?

True , a subforum for 3g and Clearwire and Ripwave would be nice , call it Fraudband !

Cabaal

subforum might not be an idea in future, especially given the sheer amount of "whats signal like here" type threads that are created in relation to mobile broadband.

While I'd agree that Mobile Broadband is not true Broadband it is still best suited to the Broadband forum rather then Mobiles or any of the other existing forums.

I'll leave this here for the time being but it might be better suited to feedback depending on how this thread progresses.

jor el

I guess the threads end up here because all the operators market it as broadband. A sub-forum would be very good for all the faux-broadband products.

Vadrefjorde

It's more of a point that if we continue to discuss mobile internet in the broadband forum then in a way we are sending a message to the government etc.. that although we decry 3G as not being broadband we still talk about it on the broadband forum. Which in a way is counter productive and not getting the message across.
We're well aware the interested parties in 3G frequent these forums so i guess moving it or not discussing it in the "broadband" forum would be a means of getting the point across??

I'm fortunate enough to live in an area which has UPC and i've often posted here about broadband related issues.
I also use 3 internet services as a backup when i'm out and about but wouldn't discuss it in this forum, purely on the principle that it is in no way, shape or form broadband.
Making a non-broadband forum and discussing non-broadband products there would be a clear message to Eamonn Ryan and the rest of the boards members here that we don't accept this as broadband.

Hank Scorpio

possibly a sticky to advise on connection problems/choosing the best operater for you/how its location dependant/current pricing-contract/Caps.. ETC would solve the majority of problems

if needed i`ll write one up and see what ya think ( bb mod ) as i own all 3 dongles

Sponge Bob

A single sticky pointing Ripwave Clearwire ICE and 3 customers to a FRAUDBAND subforum would save lots of prime acreage up on top of this forum and all relevant threads could then be dumped in there where they belong .

O2 and Vodafone are marginal but their coverage maps are honest .

dub45

Sponge Bob wrote: »

99.6% !


True , a subforum for 3g and Clearwire and Ripwave would be nice , call it Fraudband !

Given boards.ie's ''meekness'' in relation to 3 in the past I somehow don't see such a forum title cropping up any time soon.

MunsterCycling

Create a Faux-Broadband sub forum and dump the 3 et al rubbish in there.

Sponge Bob

I took the opportunity to snapshot the coverage maps of 3 and also of Vodafone in Donegal . Looking at the disingenous 3 map you would think the bastards cover Rockall. This misrepresentation is deliberate ( the dark blue bits are good coverage)

3 Have about 10 cells in Donegal
Vodafone have about 14 cells in Donegal

Same technology but very different maps

Vodafone ( Honest)



3 , ****e



Comreg . NOWHERE

Cabaal

dub45 wrote: »

Given boards.ie's ''meekness'' in relation to 3 in the past I somehow don't see such a forum title cropping up any time soon.

sigh
As DeVore has mentioned before any more of these type of tinfoil hat comments are going to lead to bans,

now back on topic!

watty

I appreciate it would give the Mods extra work.

While I understand why people want to call it "Fraudband" it would be less open to complaint and more accurate to call the Subforum "Midband".

"Midband" is defined as Mostly On systems that are not billed by time and deliver on average better than the max of Dialup which is 2x B ch ISDN of 128k, but
:: on average less than 1Mbps (1)
or
:: more than 100ms Latency (2)
or
:: connection is not ensured (3).

HSDPA, Satellite, Ripwave, EDGE, Thuraya, etc would all be in it for different reasons. It should not have a negative name such as Fraudband. Some of these are excellent systems if marketed correctly and used as intended. Mis-marketing is a separate issue.

+ vote for a "Midband" Forum.

The name I propose would explain better as these are not dialup and usually better than Dialup.

Cabaal

Froadband as a name would be pointless and stupid and would instantly give all the services a biosed view, I like the idea of Midband and could easy call it Midband (HSDPA, Satellite, Ripwave, EDGE (3G), Thuraya, etc).

Given the amount of threads the above generates I almost feel that it over shadows "real" broadband like adsl and cable in the current forum.

I think the current number of mods would be able to handle the broadband forum and any new sub-forum if it was created as the traffic would be pretty much the same just seperated more.

watty

Also an FAQ outlining the Valid and valuable uses of these complementary technologies... Such as
EDGE/HSDPA is best for Mobile/Portable use & Roaming throughout Europe. It wasn't designed for fixed PC/Laptop/Router usage. Even when signal is good, it may not connect as it is low capacity. Speed can be as high as Broadband or as slow as ISDN. Latency varies from over 100ms(High) to 2000ms(Worse than satellite).
Satellite can give a reliable high speed connection (but with 800ms+ latency) where no service is available.
Thuraya is only a little faster than ISDN, but is a portable Satellite System than can Roam to GSM.
Ripwave is ideal for use in Digs during week and home at weekends, or where no outside radio/dish or phone line or Cable is available. While speed and latency is poor it needs no install and is inexpensive.

None of these are great for Skype or VOIP, though it's possible. All are very poor for online gaming, especially FPS kind.

Satellite will usually be good for Download Video Streaming, the others usually poor. None support the bandwidth for decent streaming out (upload) of your own video for remote consumption.

All have the advantage of potentially saving over €500 a year in phone charges (inc about €320 in line rental alone). When I had Dialup it was costing me over €1,200 a year and connection was unreliable.

thebman

I don't think a subforum is viable. Why not rename the Broadband forum to Broadband and other residential comms or Broadband and Mobile BB or something similar that gives a clearer message.

I mean we didn't think we had this confusion when it was dial up causing the problems so we are doing this because the government refuse to acknowledge the problems of
Mobile BB. As it is to clarify something and not because the posts don't fit here (because it is the same audience that answers the questions), renaming this forum would be more suitable than creating a subforum IMO.

watty

Dialup was never called "Broadband".

A large number of non-Broadband systems are being marketed as Broadband. They certainly don't compare in application useablility or reliablity or performance with Fibre, Cable, xDSL and the higher quality Fixed Wireless solutions.

Most people have no idea of the difference, not just our Politicians. When people post in main form and it gets moved to the subforum it will be an instant education without regulars having to do the same replies all the time.

It won't make it any harder for the regulars. My definition of "Midband" may need tidied a little.

jor el

Midband sounds apt. I'd still say a sub-forum would be good to separate the actual broadband questions from the others, as it's probably about a 50/50 split, if not edging a little more towards the others.

This forum is quite busy, and it might help to keep it a little cleaner. Having all the 3G questions in one spot, without actual broadband questions popping up between them, might help new users to find an answer to their question too, as there would be more posts directly relating to their product, visible on the page.

If the topic of the sub-forum is something you have an interest in, or knowledge of, then you'll frequent that forum. If it doesn't interest you, then it keeps all those types of question out of the way, so that posts on the topic you have in interest in, or knowledge of, are all easily accessible, meaning questions should be answered more easily.

I can't see how it would not be worth trying anyway.

thebman

watty wrote: »

Dialup was never called "Broadband".

A large number of non-Broadband systems are being marketed as Broadband. They certainly don't compare in application useablility or reliablity or performance with Fibre, Cable, xDSL and the higher quality Fixed Wireless solutions.

Most people have no idea of the difference, not just our Politicians. When people post in main form and it gets moved to the subforum it will be an instant education without regulars having to do the same replies all the time.

It won't make it any harder for the regulars. My definition of "Midband" may need tidied a little.

Yes but that seems to be the only reason for the change. I don't know if there is enough traffic to justify both forums.

There is the possibility that people will come here to see (ie. view only and not post a thread) which provider they should go with and see no threads complaining about mobile BB providers and say well sure I'll just go with one of them since there are no threads complaining about them.

I guess the whole idea of a sub-forum assumes people will actually see it and we all know how good people are at that

Mods can move threads posted in the wrong forum but won't this triple that work load?

I guess I don't have as much fate in Irish people as the mods here :P

jor el

watty wrote: »

Most people have no idea of the difference, not just our Politicians. When people post in main form and it gets moved to the subforum it will be an instant education without regulars having to do the same replies all the time.

And just calling it Midband (or something similar) will instantly help to identify to people who know no better, that what they have is not really broadband. It may well be high speed Internet access, but will have one or more drawbacks, that you don't get with DSL/cable/good wireless.

watty

We can have a locked sticky for each type of Midband by Market Name in the Main Broadband forum? With link to the Midband Forum.

I do a lot of moving posts on Cable/TV/Satellite as people post Satellite in Terrestrial or Cable in Satellite. It's not such a big deal and quicker than explaining. By default a redirect remains.

dub45

Cabaal wrote: »

sigh
As DeVore has mentioned before any more of these type of tinfoil hat comments are going to lead to bans,

now back on topic!

Could you explain exactly what you mean by this comment? Is it now forbidden to comment on the past?:rolleyes: And will you cop yourself on with your ban threats once and for all?

Cabaal

dub45 wrote: »

Could you explain exactly what you mean by this comment? Is it now forbidden to comment on the past?:rolleyes: And will you cop yourself on with your ban threats once and for all?

PM sent.
I don't want this thread dragged further off topic

dub45

Cabaal wrote: »

PM sent.
I don't want this thread dragged further off topic

Given that you made your remark in the forum could you explain it in the forum please?

Cabaal

dub45 wrote: »

Given that you made your remark in the forum could you explain it in the forum please?

No as this would drag the thread further off topic, as I've said if you have further issues take it to helpdesk

Vadrefjorde

+1 for calling it midband too.
My whole point was that it is not broadband. Also now that more rural communities will have this option forced on them as the only means of internet connectivity (excluding dial-up) thanks to DCMNR then the traffic and posts for the subject will increase for certain.
As it stands other threads only need one post about 3 and the whole thing goes off topic.
If public representatives are consulting boards.ie as a means of guaging the consensus among the general internet population, which we know that they are, then by not acknowledgeing that it is broadband and giving it it's own midband forum would be sending a clear message.

Sponge Bob

Well Put there Waterfordian

Midband it is then. Make it so as a subforum of broadband please Cabaal , even if only to clear some of the larger stickies in there

Demoting certain technologies and implementations of technologies in there would make a very clear point .....not that the 3 megathread seems to have sparked any conversion .

Cabaal

new sub-forum created

dub45

I wonder how long it will be before some of the companies concerned object to the new designation?

Sponge Bob

They can set about working their way out of there .....maybe by the time they have all deployed flash OFDM and LTE in 2016 .

Cabaal

dub45 wrote: »

I wonder how long it will be before some of the companies concerned object to the new designation?

If it aint true broadband in the rest of europe why should it be in Ireland?

I'd be interested to hear any complaints from any companys on this new sub-forum.

watty

http://broadband.oireachtas.ie/Chapter02.htm

Chapter 2 - 'Planning to Succeed'

Recommendation 2.1

Define broadband as a service that provides at least 512Kbs connectivity and set a target of the widespread availability of 5Mps connections by 2006 and with a further suggested target of 10Mps connections by 2008.

From 2004.
They say "Minimum Broadband" would be much more than 512K by 2008

Recommendation 2.2

Develop a workable national broadband infrastructure plan.

in 2004
The Joint Committee has concluded, for the Irish market, that speeds of anything less than 512kbs is not broadband but is in fact in a class known as ‘mid-band'.

What counts for users is NOT the Up-to speed for a neglected Mast sector with one user (7.2Mbps HSDPA) or at 2am, but the typical speed 6pm to 9pm for home users and 10am to 5pm for Small Offices / Businesses. On an economically viable base station (Less than 512k for some some technologies).

I think it's reasonable that 5 years later we regard services that don't always connect, or that are typically < 1Mbps at normal usage times or have more than 100ms Latency (ping) are not Normal Broadband, but "Midband".

See what the OECD and FCC regard as BB? Would it serve the consumer or some Regulators and Mobile Operators if the OECD spec was downgraded to include HSDPA as we keep getting promised?

And who thinks the 2004 document is aggressive or was optimistic in defining Irish Broadband. Have a read. Are we going backwards?