3X13 "Dual" ***Caution may contain Spoilers***

J-blk

Trilla wrote: »

Think it was to hit Sylar at his "pressure point" behind his next with. Flames I dont think would of had the same effect

Ah yes, fair point. Though how the hell any of them expected to get a chance to shoot Sylar in the back of his head is beyond me...

JohnK wrote: »

No sign of Peter either I think. Presumably he isnt going to tell them about himself so he'll probably just ignore Peter and hope noone starts asking questions about his family.

Yep, no sign of him. And no sign of Ma Petrelli either I think... Seems Nathan is covering up the fact that any Petrellis have abilities, as that would cast suspicion on himself too.

dubhdara3

J-blk wrote: »

Yep, no sign of him. And no sign of Ma Petrelli either I think... Seems Nathan is covering up the fact that any Petrellis have abilities, as that would cast suspicion on himself too.

Personally I would think, if he showed a picture of his mother, his brother and even his illegimate daughter, then someone is gonna ask the questions about him.

While I thought the season as a whole was rubbish, and went off in a weird tangent, in the end I thought it might actually come back, and lead to a similar future as the one shown in season 1 (Five Years Gone).

The difference being... it would be the real Nathan as President, but the superpowered people are still outcast's who are being hunted by one of their own, and Peter leading the resistance.... if done right, the next Volume could be their most interesting... (big IF there tho )

Bubs101

I didn't think it was bad tbh. The Sylar plot premise was solid, even if the delivery was uninspired but I'm hoping that this will lead to the beginning of super mean future leather wearing Claire as she left her mother. Amazed he didn't take the puppet master ability

Also, don't know why people are just assuming that Mohinder just got cured, to have survived the blast he must have gotten healing powers and there was no point in healing him just to kill him.

marie_85

Figured out what 'Heroes' reminds me of.

You know that game, in which one person starts telling a story, then the next person tells the next part, then someone else and so on... It's fun when there's a group of you sitting round in a circle and you can laugh at how ridiculous the story is getting. Not so much when it's supposed to be a halfway decent TV show.

I mean, where was the Haitian during this? The last we saw of him, Peter was snarling at him to 'Go after Sylar' and then next thing we know, Sylar's playing mindgames with Claire and Co and there's no sign of the Haitian.

Don't even get me started on the time travel bit. I did laugh though when out of the characters there, Parkman was the only one the writers had to explain the Theory of Relativity.

Nathan. *sigh* They've pretty much ruined his character. His arc in S1 was good - the dodgy politician with doubts and an inner core that came out at the right moment to save his brother. Since then, he's changed his mind more times than a big... changy... thing. Why did he have to have such a complete 180 two or three episodes before the end? Why not just gradually build up to it during the season.

Sylar should have died at the end of S1. I've never warmed to him and ZQ does my head in with his cartoonish acting.

Claire still is getting too much time and attention. And that wig she's wearing is awful. Very distracting.

Fysh

Hmmm. Having seen during the opening credits that Jeph "Extraordinary people doing the laundry and washup leading ordinary lives" Loeb wrote this episode, I resigned myself to more of the same faults that the rest of the season had. And they were definitely present, but at this point I'm tired and bored of even thinking about them.

Volume 4 has been set up with a potentially interesting premise, so I'll do what I did with series one - check out the first four episodes or so and decide from there. The firing of Jeph Loeb and return of Bryan Fuller give me hope that the writing will return to the consistency of series one. Although I have to say, of the three volumes so far two have had some pretty shonky writing so they'll not have an easy time pulling the show back. If the 4400 got canned for significantly lesser sins after its 4th series, I'm guessing someone at NBC is going to be looking very closely at the viewing figures for Volume 4...

DirkVoodoo

I was just reading there about the "batman 3" rumors and what Christopher Nolan will actually do (Eddie Murphy is the most desperate rumor to be made up by the tabloids thus far).

But as Nolan himself said, the Dark Knight was a definitive batman movie in his mind. When I told my 16 year old brother this, he looked at me with some puzzlement and said "yeah, but they have to make another", when I asked why he replied "because it has to be a trilogy".

It seems to be the problem with studio movie/television, we are constantly thrown sequels/new seasons when, from a narrative and artistic perspective, they might not be needed (money-money-money). I wanted a second heroes season as much as any person here, but looking back I think I would have held season 1 in much higher regard had the show ended there. I can't see quality programming surviving if the network heads continually interfere in the production/direction of shows. I have yet to watch the wire, but as I understand it you have 4 seasons of carefully planned story from differing perspectives of the same city. Heroes had an original vision (new season, ew heroes) but buckled to popular demand. So we get characters who have clearly completed their arcs making decisions just to fill up 40 mins. The Nathan story fits this perfectly, as mentioned previously. In season 1 you have a man conflicted with his ambition for political power and his shame in hiding an ability he doesn't understand. He comes to blows with his idealistic brother but in the end, with a pretty touching exhange of brotherly affection, saves the day.

Then season 2 happens, ok Nathan isn't dead and by some creative writing he doesn't have to live with any physical scars (even the mental ones heal half way through) and he saves his brother - again. Oh, we also think he dies again.

Hey, season 3, Nathan is alive! This man is harder to kill than Rasputin! Oh, he has found God, no wait he has acted like that never happened and is going back to being a senator (Hey, didn't he have an estranged family?). It seems now he wants to do some kind of superpowered UNICEF work, that's pretty noble. No, my mistake, he has fallen out with his brother (didn't he help him save the world in season 1?) and run off to help his father create a super powered army....

Ok, so you get the idea.

I'm left thinking of Firefly, there was a show which now sits proudly in my DVD selection along with Serenity. While I'm left thinking of what might of been with the "hands of blue" and all that, I will never have to look back and think "that was the point it all went wrong" (and looking back at Buffy and to a lesser extent Angel, I know this would have happened, sorry Joss).

Heroes may be beyond saving because perhaps there was no longer any story left to tell, or at least not for our current crop of heroes.

kaiser soza

It went as bad as the last stand aka X-Men 3 with Heroes and villians killed left and right and plot holes everywhere but I am still going to watch to see how long it takes for this show to be pushing dasieys.

User45701

J-blk wrote: »

The one on his right cheek...

Here he is right at the beginning of "Dual":



and here he is right at the end of the same episode:



So it doesn't seem like his healing ability returned, which still leaves us at only flight, which could mean he did not get his original power(s) back at all...

Are you sure peter just didnt get his orginal power of learning powers back and he could fly because Nathan was near him?

Derek Coleman wrote: »

P.S. I don't think Ando kills Hiro in the future. He probably gives him back his powers somehow when he fires his red lightning at him.

Wouldn't it be interesting if ando's power is the formula,

it could make existing powers stronger and also give powers to those that have none?

J-blk

User45701 wrote: »

Are you sure peter just didnt get his orginal power of learning powers back and he could fly because Nathan was near him?

No, I'm not sure he got his original power back, that was kinda my whole point. Most people are assuming that he did (which may very well be the case) but there was nothing in the episode to clearly indicate that. Somebody mentioned his cut healed by the end of the episode, establishing that he got all his powers back and I posted the screenies to clarify that didn't happen. I don't know if he got his original power back or not, but I think we'll find out very soon when the show returns...

Blazer

Reminds me of lost now..only watching it to see what happends really.
S2+S3 really screwed Heroes up.:mad:

Nervous Wreck

J-blk wrote: »

Somebody mentioned his cut healed by the end of the episode, establishing that he got all his powers back and I posted the screenies to clarify that didn't happen.

My bad... Wishful thinking, I guess.....!

cautioner

My favourite episode of the season; one of the my favourites altogether.

Sylar playing cat and mouse with level 5's? Fuckin deadly.

Faith

I liked it, simply because I loved the concept of Sylar being the big bad and hunting the heroes. Unfortunately, the scene with Ma Petrelli at the end ruined it all. If he's dead, I will stop watching the show. It has no other redeeming qualities as far as I'm concerned.

Why did Ando and Peter both practically impale themselves with the formula? There's no need to stick it into yourself with all the force you can possibly muster.

J-blk

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

My bad... Wishful thinking, I guess.....!

Ah well, like I said, it may very well be the case that he did get his original powers back. In fact, that's the "easy" way out and I would almost expect the writers to do that, as again, it "resets" everything that happened to Peter during the volume and neatly gets rid of "the hunger" if he needs to re-learn powers... Peter not getting his original powers back (at least just yet) is more of the way to go IMO, but if that's the case, did he have to get stuck with flight as his only power? Lame...

Faith wrote: »

Why did Ando and Peter both practically impale themselves with the formula? There's no need to stick it into yourself with all the force you can possibly muster.

Good ol' "dramatic effect" I guess... And why did Ando almost have a seizure and pass out from the injection, whereas Peter doesn't even blink and has powers back instantly and Mohinder swallows a couple of pints worth to no visible effect? I'm guessing the writers' excuse would be that Peter and Mohinder already had powers and their bodies were more "conditioned" for the formula, but as usual, in the space of ten minutes, consistency goes out the window.

For all its' faults, I really want this show to return to the glory days. I love these kinds of shows (as well as Sci-Fi ones) and they are the least successful type on US TV... Instead, there are a ton of reality shows and CSI/Law & Order spinoffs, year after year. Heroes season 1 managed to be a breakthrough hit even for audiences that would never watch this type of show and that's why it's so disappointing to see it hit the skids, as it'll further put networks off such shows, opting for the next CSI instead... (Disclaimer: I have nothing against CSI-type shows, I just think the TV "landscape" is a bit uneven these days...)

Derek Coleman

J-blk wrote: »

For all its' faults, I really want this show to return to the glory days. I love these kinds of shows (as well as Sci-Fi ones) and they are the least successful type on US TV... Instead, there are a ton of reality shows and CSI/Law & Order spinoffs, year after year. Heroes season 1 managed to be a breakthrough hit even for audiences that would never watch this type of show and that's why it's so disappointing to see it hit the skids, as it'll further put networks off such shows, opting for the next CSI instead... (Disclaimer: I have nothing against CSI-type shows, I just think the TV "landscape" is a bit uneven these days...)

Snap. Well said.

nix

J-blk wrote: »

Ah well, like I said, it may very well be the case that he did get his original powers back. In fact, that's the "easy" way out and I would almost expect the writers to do that, as again, it "resets" everything that happened to Peter during the volume and neatly gets rid of "the hunger" if he needs to re-learn powers... Peter not getting his original powers back (at least just yet) is more of the way to go IMO, but if that's the case, did he have to get stuck with flight as his only power? Lame...



Good ol' "dramatic effect" I guess... And why did Ando almost have a seizure and pass out from the injection, whereas Peter doesn't even blink and has powers back instantly and Mohinder swallows a couple of pints worth to no visible effect? I'm guessing the writers' excuse would be that Peter and Mohinder already had powers and their bodies were more "conditioned" for the formula, but as usual, in the space of ten minutes, consistency goes out the window.

For all its' faults, I really want this show to return to the glory days. I love these kinds of shows (as well as Sci-Fi ones) and they are the least successful type on US TV... Instead, there are a ton of reality shows and CSI/Law & Order spinoffs, year after year. Heroes season 1 managed to be a breakthrough hit even for audiences that would never watch this type of show and that's why it's so disappointing to see it hit the skids, as it'll further put networks off such shows, opting for the next CSI instead... (Disclaimer: I have nothing against CSI-type shows, I just think the TV "landscape" is a bit uneven these days...)

Well its quite possible that the super power when applied would be the same power all the time? If its not a random power applied then that supports peter jabbing the needle into his leg (he can heal it instantly with his powers) And if he has to absorb peoples powers again to get them then his ability to fly is granted from absorbing his bro's.

Also Parkman and Ando did they not say that the power you get is the power you desire the most? Right before Ando jabbed himself? Although thats just their assumption.

Nothing is really confirmed as to how the specific powers are obtained science wise, so they can still do what they want to be honest

And Sylar will be back, hes the best character in it they wont have him dead long

Sherifu

Another very poor season overall. Shame. Show had promise.

jor el

Otacon wrote: »

Travelling faster than light, theoretically, allows you to go backwards and forwards in time.

Special relativity, theorises that time slows down as you approach the speed of light. If Daphne ran at almost the speed of light, then time for her would slow, relative to everything else. She wouldn't travel backwards in time, she would freeze, relatively speaking. If she managed to end up back in the past, then approaching the speed of light again, would allow her to move forward (in our time) in a relatively short time for her.

It's just another of the huge gloss-overs from this whole season. As Jack O'Neill said, relativity gives me a headache.

Glad this portion is over, now let us never speak of it again...

Fysh

jor el wrote: »

Special relativity, theorises that time slows down as you approach the speed of light. If Daphne ran at almost the speed of light, then time for her would slow, relative to everything else. She wouldn't travel backwards in time, she would freeze, relatively speaking. If she managed to end up back in the past, then approaching the speed of light again, would allow her to move forward (in our time) in a relatively short time for her.

It's just another of the huge gloss-overs from this whole season. As Jack O'Neill said, relativity gives me a headache.

Glad this portion is over, now let us never speak of it again...

The thing is, tachyons are theoretical items that travel faster than the speed of light and thus would appear to travel backwards through time as we perceive it. So far so good.

However, that can't work for an object that starts out at rest. As an object accelerates, time dilates for it but its mass increases commesurate to how fast it's going. So the problem is getting enough energy to accelerate the object up to (or beyond) the speed of light. (Quite aside from the issue of friction burning away her legs if she were to run that fast).

None of which would be quite such a problem if the general approach to plotlines and characters hadn't been so god-awful this season...

cautioner

No offence, but a lot of you seem to me to be scraping the barrel for plot holes. Who gives a shít, really, if Daphne's time travel doesn't stand up to strict scientific scrutiny? It's not supposed to. Science Fiction, anyone?

Next we'll be on about Nathans propulsion:weight ratio or something.

Shryke

I just watched 11, 12 and 13 in a row. I can see what they were doing and I'm happy enough with the direction the last couple of eps took but they have to loose the soapish element a little.
It was strange. As I watched this ep I was kind of looking at scenes sideways in the mansion. I was saying to myself, if this was acted out a bit differently, if whoever was directing did a half descent job then this good be really good stuff. As it was it was just banged out. No craft or suspence. No atmosphere. It was still going very well until Claire stepped in with Sylar. That scene should have happened the other way around.

Mr.Nice Guy

I just watched it now. I thought it was very much a 'Meh' episode and for a season finale I felt it was a disappointment. I didn't like the setting for the Sylar stuff and it all felt quite predictable, much like the whole season really.

The stuff with Hiro, Ando and co was uninspiring and as for the Nathan/Peter stuff, I felt Nathan's actions were really bizarre and that they didn't match the character we've seen in previous seasons. Mohinder's character has really gone to sh*t.

jor el wrote:

Glad this portion is over, now let us never speak of it again...

That pretty much sums it up really. The season has really disappointed me and I hope Volume IV proves to be an improvement. I'd be willing to settle for less action and more effort put into the storyline and character development. Here's hoping...