N24 Limerick-Waterford upgrade

invinciblePRSTV

touts wrote: »

This road should be a critical element of the national infrastructure as it allows freight from the entire western seaboard to access Rosslate port. Certainly it's upgrade should be a higher priority than the proposed motorway to bring fans from Cork to Limerick for Munster matches.

touts wrote: »

Set priority based on infrastructural benefit. The N24 opens up Rosslare port to exporters along the western seaboard thus providing an alternative to the overcrowded Dublin port. Other N roads linking two medium sized Irish country towns mainly for commuters would be a lower priority.

If you're an exporter on the western seaboard (of which I'm sure there are loads) then you've got the choice of using the biggest port in the state or Shannon - Foynes, or Cork. All a lot closer then Rosslare.

Increasing access from the NW to the SE isn't a valid reason on it's own to build the N24, if it's about access to Rosslare then surely both the M11 and N25 to Rosslare should be upgraded before the N24 on the basis most of Irelands industrial output is located at the end of these roads rather then up wesht.

Spacetweek wrote: »

Agreed. The N24's strategic importance (Limerick-M8-Waterford and in a larger sense, Rosslare Port-Shannon) has been demonstrated over and over. That's why I don't share your pessimism about viking toilets. I see this scheme happening within 10 years at most.

The N24 may be strategically important but there are plenty of project's with similar or greater merits. I'm struggling to see a future Transport minister operating under hairshirt budget conditions giving the N24 the go ahead of other projects like the gaps in the M11 or Atlantic Corridor for example.

Amtmann

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

The N24 may be strategically important but there are plenty of project's with similar or greater merits....

That is not in dispute. However, I think it could be built piecemeal, starting with the bit from Tipperary town to east of Bansha. There is a precedent for this on the N24 already: The current Cahir Bypass is actually a short section of the proposed Cahir to Rathkeevin scheme.

pigtown

M7 Junction 29 (Ballysimon Interchange) upgrade going ahead.
From Limerick Leader:

Published on Tuesday 8 November 2011 08:00

WORKS to increase capacity at one of Limerick’s worst bottle-necks are
expected to begin early next year

Limerick County Council hopes to appoint a contractor before Christmas
to carry out the upgrade works at the N24 / N7 interchange.
At present up to 18,000 vehicles use the interchange every day and
lengthy delays are a daily occurrence at peak times.
The project, which is expected to cost several million euro to complete,
was formally approved by councillors last month following the conclusion
of the Part 8 planning process.
The deadline for receipt of contractors is this Thursday and negotiations
with the prospective contractor are likely to begin next week.
The works, which will last for a number of months, will see the
construction of a new roundabout at the junction of the N24
and the Old Ballysimon Road.
A new slip-road will be constructed to facilitate direct access to the N24
for traffic exiting from the northbound lane of the N7.
The existing lanes of the N24 will be widened over a 2km stretch of road
and there will be four lanes (two in each direction) between the new
roundabout and the Garryglass Roundabout.
The existing traffic lights, which were installed at the junction number of
years ago will remain in place but they will be reconfigured to facilitate
the additional traffic.

lukejr

This is the article in the Limerick Leader:
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/works_to_begin_next_year_to_remove_limerick_bottleneck_1_3224034


Has anyone seen the plans for the upgrade?

touts

I would love to see this happen as the original design was one of the worst I have seen anywhere in the country but is the money there to do this? I assume the information was passed on from the council to the Leader over a week ago and the article was written early last week. With the capital budget for roads basically scrapped it is hard to see where a few million will come from for this. I fear we will have to live with the current layout for many more years.

Sponge Bob

Are Part 8 schemes capital or current?

spacetweek

touts wrote: »

I would love to see this happen as the original design was one of the worst I have seen anywhere in the country but is the money there to do this? I assume the information was passed on from the council to the Leader over a week ago and the article was written early last week. With the capital budget for roads basically scrapped it is hard to see where a few million will come from for this. I fear we will have to live with the current layout for many more years.

Why would you say that when they just said it was going ahead?

charlemont

Its a pathetic effort if you ask me.

JupiterKid

Would upgrading this junction to a large overhead roundabout like the old layouts of the M50 junctions be adequate? Surely traffic numbers here wouldn't justify a fully freeflow design?

charlemont

A new slip-road will be constructed to facilitate direct access to the N24
for traffic exiting from the northbound lane of the N7.

I'd like to find out more about this but as usual the clowns couldn't even release a map...I reckon it will just be slip road going in towards Limerick to avoid the current lights as I cant see them building new bridges to take the traffic east.

betistuc

Now that the M20 has been well and truly shelved, maybe the only option left now is constructing an M24 to Cahir . At least this would connect Limerick to Cork and at most eliminate a very dangerous blot on the landscape(N24). I'm sure a person could travel between these two cities as quickly on this route as you would on the N20.

Personally ,I'd prefer to see the M20 built. This is an option though!

touts

betistuc wrote: »

Now that the M20 has been well and truly shelved, maybe the only option left now is constructing an M24 to Cahir . At least this would connect Limerick to Cork and at most eliminate a very dangerous blot on the landscape(N24). I'm sure a person could travel between these two cities as quickly on this route as you would on the N20.

Personally ,I'd prefer to see the M20 built. This is an option though!

Certainly Limerick to Cahir or even Limerick to Mitchelstown would make far more sense than Limerick to Cork as that way half the road is already built. However it isn't going to happen with the German loan sharks at the door screaming for us to give them back the the money they indirectly lent to Quinn, Fingers, Fitzpatrick and the like. We have to settle for what we have for the next 20-25 years.

jd

touts wrote: »

Certainly Limerick to Cahir or even Limerick to Mitchelstown would make far more sense than Limerick to Cork as that way half the road is already built.

Shame the M7/M8 were built the way they were (IMHO). If the M7 had continued to north of Mitchelstown before splitting (Limerick/Cork) , you could have now Cork-Limerick motorway + Limerick-Waterford part motorway..

spacetweek

touts wrote: »

However it isn't going to happen with the German loan sharks at the door screaming for us to give them back the the money they indirectly lent to Quinn, Fingers, Fitzpatrick and the like. We have to settle for what we have for the next 20-25 years.

It will be 5-10 years even in a pessimistic scenario.

Wild Bill

jd wrote: »

Shame the M7/M8 were built the way they were (IMHO). If the M7 had continued to north of Mitchelstown before splitting (Limerick/Cork) , you could have now Cork-Limerick motorway + Limerick-Waterford part motorway..

Thank God we didn't.

We now have excellent motorways to Cork, Limerick and Waterford without having to go to Mitchelstown to get to Limerick! :cool:

fricatus

Wild Bill wrote: »

Thank God we didn't.

We now have excellent motorways to Cork, Limerick and Waterford without having to go to Mitchelstown to get to Limerick! :cool:

Yes, because getting to and from Dublin is all that counts in this country... sure who would be travelling from Limerick to Cork or Waterford anyway? :rolleyes:

Wild Bill

fricatus wrote: »

Yes, because getting to and from Dublin is all that counts in this country... sure who would be travelling from Limerick to Cork or Waterford anyway? :rolleyes:

Yeah, not very many I guess. :cool:

jd

Wild Bill wrote: »

Thank God we didn't.

We now have excellent motorways to Cork, Limerick and Waterford without having to go to Mitchelstown to get to Limerick! :cool:

I said north of Mitchelstown. Crayon time :D

Sponge Bob

Before Mysterious got banned for general sociopathy he came up with a genuinely good plan for all of the M20 and the 'M24' and 'M25'.

I agreed with him..but he still tried to chew my leg off, as was his wont. I added some extra Notes for Bill as well.

fricatus

^^
That is a genuinely good plan. It achieves a lot of objectives with limited resources.

jd

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Before Mysterious got banned for general sociopathy he came up with a genuinely good plan for all of the M20 and the 'M24' and 'M25'.

Yip, my point though was that the m7 and m8 didn't have to diverge so early. If it had happened north of Mitchelstown you could hav got more bang for your buck. All moot now...

Yahew

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Before Mysterious got banned for general sociopathy he came up with a genuinely good plan for all of the M20 and the 'M24' and 'M25'.

I agreed with him..but he still tried to chew my leg off, as was his wont. I added some extra Notes for Bill as well.

the tunnel through the comeraghs would be costly

marmurr1916

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Before Mysterious got banned for general sociopathy he came up with a genuinely good plan for all of the M20 and the 'M24' and 'M25'.

I agreed with him..but he still tried to chew my leg off, as was his wont. I added some extra Notes for Bill as well.

One minor flaw: you seem to be proposing running the M24 through the Comeraghs south of Clonmel and Carrick on Suir.

touts

spacetweek wrote: »

It will be 5-10 years even in a pessimistic scenario.

Not a hope. The debt is too large, the deficit closing too slowly and the world economy is performing too poorly. There will be no major projects in Ireland in the next decade. When things do start the the Dublin Luas extension, Dublin Airport Metro, Dublin Orbital route, Dublin Dart upgrade, Dublin Children's Hospital and diverting the Shannon to Dublin are all ahead of this in the pecking order for whatever money Berlin sends our way and these projects will take the vast bulk of funding for 5-10 years. Unless someone can find a way to start/end the N20/N24 in Dublin it simply isn't going to happen.

touts

marmurr1916 wrote: »

One minor flaw: you seem to be proposing running the M24 through the Comeraghs south of Clonmel and Carrick on Suir.

To be fair they could kink around the mountains fairly easily (there isn't a motor way in the country that is dead straight for that distance. It's not a bad plan. Infact its quite a good one and probably needs less than half the road network than the old standalone N20 and Standalone N24 plans. But unfortunately no one seems to have proposed it when the money was there. Its a pity the councils of Limerick, Cork, Tipperary and Waterford hadn't the vision to work together on this joint plan.

That said. Having just poo-pooed the idea of funding being available and now looking at this map if the NRA joined with the councils of Limerick, Cork and Tipp to sell the proposal to Private companies I could see the Limerick to Mitchelstown part having the volume and relative short distance to appeal to a private investor who would then toll the road. It's the only chance of it being done any time in our working lives.

Robo_Mike

touts wrote: »

That said. Having just poo-pooed the idea of funding being available and now looking at this map if the NRA joined with the councils of Limerick, Cork and Tipp to sell the proposal to Private companies I could see the Limerick to Mitchelstown part having the volume and relative short distance to appeal to a private investor who would then toll the road. It's the only chance of it being done any time in our working lives.

The problem with that would be the already existing toll on the M8 between Mitchelstown and Cork. Would you pay 2 tolls to take a longer(albeit faster) route from Cork to Limerick? One toll yes, two, I cannot see working!

touts

Robo_Mike wrote: »

The problem with that would be the already existing toll on the M8 between Mitchelstown and Cork. Would you pay 2 tolls to take a longer(albeit faster) route from Cork to Limerick? One toll yes, two, I cannot see working!

It might be the only option to get it built. As things stand the government won't be able to afford to do it this side of the end of Leo Varadkar's third term as Taoiseach in 2030. Within a few years there will be 3-4 toll points on the M50 and probably a couple of extra points on the M7/M8.

invinciblePRSTV

touts wrote: »

Robo_Mike wrote: »

The problem with that would be the already existing toll on the M8 between Mitchelstown and Cork. Would you pay 2 tolls to take a longer(albeit faster) route from Cork to Limerick? One toll yes, two, I cannot see working!

It might be the only option to get it built. As things stand the government won't be able to afford to do it this side of the end of Leo Varadkar's third term as Taoiseach in 2030. Within a few years there will be 3-4 toll points on the M50 and probably a couple of extra points on the M7/M8.

I'd disagree. A significant portion of current N20 traffic is commuter traffic. Building what has been proposed up above would still leave the parts of the N20, such as south of Mallow and your Charleville's and Buttevant's needing to be rebuilt and/or bypassed as there will still, even with this proposal above being built, have significant levels of traffic.

It's all well and good playing with crayons to suggest building blue lines in the wilderness - which is what the proposal above essentially is. But let's ask ourselves, is there really enough 'intercity' traffic likely to make the above proposal viable? particularly when the likelihood of multiple tolls will be present? i sincerely doubt it. It looks good on paper but like a lot of recently built motorways will be sorely underused I'd wager.

If you're going between the 2 most populous urban area's in the proposal, are you going to take the longer, more circuitous route, complete with multipe tolls. Or are you just going to go the old more direct route? not a hard question to answer now is it?.

Jayuu

As somebody originally from Carrick-on-Suir I can tell you that a route south of the Suir would be far more expensive and difficult to build than one north of the river and north of the existing N24. There's no good reason to stay south of the river and plenty of good reasons not to.

Yahew

touts wrote: »

To be fair they could kink around the mountains fairly easily (there isn't a motor way in the country that is dead straight for that distance. It's not a bad plan. Infact its quite a good one and probably needs less than half the road network than the old standalone N20 and Standalone N24 plans. But unfortunately no one seems to have proposed it when the money was there. Its a pity the councils of Limerick, Cork, Tipperary and Waterford hadn't the vision to work together on this joint plan.

I thought the map was a joke, or an approximation. Apparently people were serious. Jesus wept.

The Comeraghs dominate all of North Waterford. I mean that is clear from the map. There is no way to build that motorway - as shown - without massive amount of tunnelling.

( there is one low level pass though the mountains, but it would involve zig zagging down to Dunmore East and then zagging back to Clonmel, going East, adding 100 miles or more to the distance).

Absurd.