[PSTN Lines] What are Eircoms legal obligations for new lines?

Puteq

I live approx 1 mile from my local exchange. I am currently in the process of moving to a new house that is just newly built. My current flat is actually further away from the exchange, and I currently have broadband on that phone line. My new house is a bit closer to the exchange, however after I applied for broadband I got a call from the local Eircom engineer who informed me ‘unofficially’ that if I wanted the new line for broadband purposes, there was no point in even getting it installed, as there was no way I would be able to get broadband, even if it was a new line. I cancelled the order, however someone recently mentioned to me that Eircom are legally obliged to ensure broadband is available on any new line within range of the exchange. I have scouted around on past threads to see if this question has already been answered, and found a few references to the fact that eircom are not supposed to split lines any more, but i want to find out how accurate this is, and how legally bound eircom are in this respect?

If some engineer ‘unofficially’ tells me not to bother, I want to know is he really trying to save me hassle, or just being lazy.

jor el

Puteq wrote: »

someone recently mentioned to me that Eircom are legally obliged to ensure broadband is available on any new line within range of the exchange.

I don't think so, unless it's very new, and if it was, I'm sure someone would have posted it here. The USO (universal service obligation) states that they must provide a line capable of voice service, fax, and data up to 28.8kbps (dial up). There's no mention of, or requirement to support, broadband.

I wonder why your new line wouldn't support broadband? The only reason I can think of is that they have no more lines available from the exchange, and everything is being put on splitters. This would rule it out. An engineer would be able to give you a dedicated line, and take you off the splitter, but only if a line is available. If you're friendly with this engineer, you should push him for a little more information.

Cabaal

PSTN lines within Ireland under EU law must support a min of 28K dialup connection, outside of that Eircom or for that matter any other telco in Ireland are under no obligations to provide ADSL or even 56K dialup....of course this may have changed but I very much doubt it as already mentioned by jor el.

As for splitting lines...dacs boxes and the like, I've heard references that they are not supposed to be doing this anymore but I've not seen anything legal to back this up myself....sponge bob may be able to help on this subject though.

Just curious, can your new neighbours get DSL...have your checked there numbers against the checker? If your very friendly with your neighbours maybe try get there line stats (give an idea of line quality)

Puteq

Cabaal wrote: »

Just curious, can your new neighbours get DSL...have your checked there numbers against the checker? If your very friendly with your neighbours maybe try get there line stats (give an idea of line quality)

I already know that at least one of my neighbours cannot get broadband, they have had their line for ages. The line eircom fed them was they were too far from the exchange, but they are only 1 mile away, and anyway my previous accomodation was further away down the same road and i had broadband.

I guess i just wanted to know if there was anything i could do, because i guess they dont have any more lines available from the exchange so they are splitting everything down my road anyway

jor el

I haven't heard mention of these for a while now, but I believe there are "sub-exchanges" in use by eircom, which are usually used for the sharing of lines for more customers than they have available lines. None of the sub-exchanges are DSL enabled, so any lines coming from these, will never get broadband. Your entire area or housing estate, might be off one of these, meaning none of you will ever get DSL.

I think this is the most likely cause, given what the engineer told you, and that others are in the same boat.

crawler

Current USO runs to June 2009

Details here

http://www.comreg.ie/consumer_initiatives/universal_service_obligation.590.html

Sponge Bob

Cabaal wrote: »

As for splitting lines...dacs boxes and the like, I've heard references that they are not supposed to be doing this anymore but I've not seen anything legal to back this up myself....sponge bob may be able to help on this subject though.

What you can do is order a BUNDLE through their site and get a receipt from them in writing for it .

www.eircom.ie > home phone line > make it clear that you want a new line and that no line is there ( new lines are free right now I think , normally €150 or so )

"Connect your first eircom residential telephone line "

fill out details , press next

select from

Line Packages & Services
Phones

and LOOK whats here at the end

"Broadband packages and bundles "

and confirm all the order and billing details on the next page

"Your pricing details Installation costs: In-Situ, Pre-Cabled or Standard installation charges will apply depending on your circumstances Line package Monthy line rental: eircom phone line only 25.36
Phone services and phone charges Phone services 0.00 Phone charges 0.00 Broadband eircom talktime family and up to 3Mb broadband 55.16 (Connection subject to line checks)
To complete your order you must accept the @&BV_EngineID=ccciadefmffhgdgcefeceiedfgodfik.0&documentName=resSpreadPaymentConditions')"]Terms and conditions[/URL] All prices are inclusive of VAT @ 21.5% "

Eircom now know that you ordered a line for Broadband , if they 'disable' the line with a splitter aka a 'carrier' you owe them nothing !

If they do not split the line you have a good chance of getting broadband TBH .

INSIST they only deal with you in writing , not by calling you .

Grommet

jor el wrote: »

I haven't heard mention of these for a while now, but I believe there are "sub-exchanges" in use by eircom, which are usually used for the sharing of lines for more customers than they have available lines. None of the sub-exchanges are DSL enabled, so any lines coming from these, will never get broadband. Your entire area or housing estate, might be off one of these, meaning none of you will ever get DSL.

I think this is the most likely cause, given what the engineer told you, and that others are in the same boat.

Almost correct - SOME of the "sub exchanges" - or more officially known as Remote Subscriber Units (RSU's) are enabled for DSL, but certainly some are not. I think Jor El may be right in this case, the OP may have moved to a new house that is actually cabled from a different RSU from his previous apartment. It would be worth asking the eircom engineer that you spoke with if this is the case.

lucernarian

I thought RSUs were only (sometimes) installed when there was a substantial number of new lines to be installed together, 2 or more miles away from the exchange. To save on copper costs, so I was told by a man working in eircom HQ.

Some of the RSUs in my part of the world have broadband, some don't. They all have similar connectivity and number of lines connected to them, so I don't know why eircom are being choosy with the DSL enabling.


Anyway, I've a few ideas for the OP's problem. Firstly, 2 questions.

Is this new house in a housing estate or a one-off house on a 1/2 acre or a redevelopment etc?

Could you put your current flat's number and the neighbour whose line fails in this line checker, and tell us the results please?(http://www.btireland.ie/check_exchange/)

Tbh I get the feeling it's a copper shortage in the area of your new house. It could be easy to correct (i.e. a new 10-pair cable from manhole to pole and a junction box) or something like installing new cabling and a cabinet in the area. We can rule out some things when you answer those 2 questions.

Puteq

Sponge Bob wrote: »

What you can do is order a BUNDLE through their site and get a receipt from them in writing for it .

www.eircom.ie > home phone line > make it clear that you want a new line and that no line is there ( new lines are free right now I think , normally €150 or so )

"Connect your first eircom residential telephone line "

fill out details , press next

select from

Line Packages & Services
Phones

and LOOK whats here at the end

"Broadband packages and bundles "

and confirm all the order and billing details on the next page

"Your pricing details Installation costs: In-Situ, Pre-Cabled or Standard installation charges will apply depending on your circumstances Line package Monthy line rental: eircom phone line only 25.36
Phone services and phone charges Phone services 0.00 Phone charges 0.00 Broadband eircom talktime family and up to 3Mb broadband 55.16 (Connection subject to line checks)
To complete your order you must accept the @&BV_EngineID=ccciadefmffhgdgcefeceiedfgodfik.0&documentName=resSpreadPaymentConditions')"]Terms and conditions[/URL] All prices are inclusive of VAT @ 21.5% "

Eircom now know that you ordered a line for Broadband , if they 'disable' the line with a splitter aka a 'carrier' you owe them nothing !

If they do not split the line you have a good chance of getting broadband TBH .

INSIST they only deal with you in writing , not by calling you .

Hi all, just realised i never got back to you to let you know how i got on, and to say thanks for the advice everyone. I now have broadband, i took the approach of Sponge Bob above, ordered a bundle online.

See, my original reservation about ordering a line was if it failed the broadband test, i would end up paying a connection fee, followed immediately by a disconnection fee. However I went with the thinking that i would order a bundle and have it in writing that i was ordering phone line & BB together. This meant i could argue if they could only give me half of what i ordered, i wouldn't want anything and wouldnt pay anything. But as it happens i ended up dealing with a different engineer, and he seemed to really make an effort to go off and find me a BB able line. He did so successfully, so i am now with eircom for a 6 month contract, but at least i have BB :-)

thanks for the help everyone.

jor el

Nice one!

watty

However there is NO penalty for the line unable to do 28k. They just have to make a best effort!