testing sewage pipe-work

teach nua

I am currently starting to second fix and the sewage pipework has just been completed. Is there any way of testing that the sewage pipework gradients are correct? The person that laid the pipework is soon due for paying and I would like to know that everything is correct without actually fully 'using' the system as the toiltets are only temporarily in place as the tiling in the bathrooms has not been done yet and I dont want a bad odour coming back through the pipes into the house. I'm told I have at least 1% gradient and water does flow from the toilets to the septic tank but i'm having mixed results when I add little bits of toilet paper and flush them, sometimes they travel along to the tank and sometimes they stay somewhere in the pipework and need a second flush or so. There is 54m from the furthest toilet to the tank.

Heatherview

Hi Teach Nua

Go to web site www.wavin.com go to ireland on site and it will give you pipe sizing. Hope tis helps
Heatherview

I suppose the main thing is to avoid any "traps" in the pipe run, one way to check would be to pump air in one end of the pipe run through a bung.

You should not be able to pressurise it, if you can then you have a section of pipe rising and creating a shallow "U" trap.

jasgrif11

A quick test would be to pour a bucket of water into your 4 inch pipe (at the toilet end) then it should be a slow standard walk from the outside pipe/manhole to your septic tank. When you get to your septic tank you will see the water flowing in. If it takes much longer then your gradient may be wrong.

Paper may stick inside the piep with just small tests but when you have washing machines, sinks, Dishwashers etc running then there will be a good constant flow through the pipe

MacTheKnife1

jasgrif11 wrote: »

but when you have washing machines, sinks, Dishwashers etc running then there will be a good constant flow through the pipe

Washing machines etc should NOT be flowing thru the pipe, they should go to a seperate soak pit.

muffler

MacTheKnife1 wrote: »

Washing machines etc should NOT be flowing thru the pipe, they should go to a seperate soak pit.

Where did you get that idea from?

MacTheKnife1

muffler wrote: »

Where did you get that idea from?

From almost everyone I have ever spoken to about septic tanks! News to me if it is allowed. The xtra flow of water into the tank is surely not a good idea??

Would be interested to learn that the opposite is the case but I am amazed if it is, cos so many people I have spoken to about it over the years think otherwise.

Mac

Mac, you're not getting mixed up with the idea of grey water recycling by any chance.
This is where water from the baths/showers & washing machine is reused for flushing toilets.

muffler

MacTheKnife1 wrote: »

From almost everyone I have ever spoken to about septic tanks! News to me if it is allowed. The xtra flow of water into the tank is surely not a good idea??

Would be interested to learn that the opposite is the case but I am amazed if it is, cos so many people I have spoken to about it over the years think otherwise.

Mac

About 25 - 30 years ago the powers that be decided that all waste water from baths, shower, sink etc should NOT enter the septic tank as they believed that with the onset of different forms of cleaning agents that the bacteria in the tank would be destroyed. But having researched it more they then insisted that the cleaning agents were in fact harmless and that they HAD TO discharge into the tank.

It is certainly not uncommon for people to discharge this waste water to soakpits but its actually creating problems rather than eliminating them.

RKQ

I understand that a grease trap circa €130, at the kitchen sink is a good idea. Needs to be emptied once a month.

Terrible 50mm thick smelly lump removed by ladle, into plastic bag. Greasey water can be removed by filling 2L plastic milk bottles - very bed stomach churning stuff! But worth the effort. Plastic gloves very important. :eek:

People used to make a trap out of half a barrell. Empty the barrell regularly as it prevented the grease blocking up the soak pit. Grease would have a similar effect on percolation pipes, if it made it that far.

Muffler is correct, bath water and kitchen sink is allowed to the septic tank. I assume it forms a grease layer in the tank. Tanks are supposed to be emptied yearly.

MacTheKnife1

muffler wrote: »

About 25 - 30 years ago the powers that be decided that all waste water from baths, shower, sink etc should NOT enter the septic tank as they believed that with the onset of different forms of cleaning agents that the bacteria in the tank would be destroyed. But having researched it more they then insisted that the cleaning agents were in fact harmless and that they HAD TO discharge into the tank.

It is certainly not uncommon for people to discharge this waste water to soakpits but its actually creating problems rather than eliminating them.

Muffler many thanks for clearing this up. Sorry to OP if I misled you, and thanks for raising this issue - I have learnt a lot from it.

fishfoodie

jasgrif11 wrote: »

A quick test would be to pour a bucket of water into your 4 inch pipe (at the toilet end) then it should be a slow standard walk from the outside pipe/manhole to your septic tank. When you get to your septic tank you will see the water flowing in. If it takes much longer then your gradient may be wrong.

Paper may stick inside the piep with just small tests but when you have washing machines, sinks, Dishwashers etc running then there will be a good constant flow through the pipe

The one I was told, by my father, was a bucket of water coloured with food dye + some dog turds :eek: The key is not to get the liquid to the tank ASAP, but to make sure that the solids get carried by the liquid. Otherwise you can end up with blockages.

I was also told that the calculation for the correct gradient goes back to the Romans.

muffler

fishfoodie wrote: »

I was also told that the calculation for the correct gradient goes back to the Romans.

Yip. They knew their shit

Martron

muffler wrote: »

Where did you get that idea from?

any water which contains a high amount of biological detergents should be put into a seperate soak pit as it kills the biological process in your septic tank. you can do it if you want but you will be pumping it ou more often

Martron

the ideal fall for sewerage is 1 in 60. a good way to see if its ok its the get wet toilet paer washed down with a ucket of water.

if only the water appears at the far end you may have a problem.

but if you are building this yourself and have a dumpy level handy.....

you measure the length of the run roughly and the pipe sould fall roughly 16mm per metre lenght. any less than that could pose a problem. you can have more that that but what will happen os that the waer will run away from the solids leaving it in the pipe... not nice!!

muffler

Martron wrote: »

any water which contains a high amount of biological detergents should be put into a seperate soak pit as it kills the biological process in your septic tank. you can do it if you want but you will be pumping it ou more often

Are you up to date on these matters?

Thats poor advice.

Martron

i hva e seen it for myself especially on smaller tanks. and washine machines are the worst

muffler

Martron wrote: »

i hva e seen it for myself especially on smaller tanks. and washine machines are the worst

You've seen it, I've seen and half the country have seen it but that doesn't mean its right or acceptable. And equally so we have all seen people leaving the pub and getting into their cars and driving.

The point Im making or rather the question I asked is are you familiar with the legal requirements for sewage treatment and disposal?

Martron

Well obviously not. i was giving my own opinion. i was not giving legal advice.

as i have said is that i have just seen it done that way before and it seems to work. i never once said that it is legal or otherwise.

and if you have a problem with my posts you can pm me instead of addressing the issue in the forum like this. i would have had no problem discussing this issue further in private there is no need to say my advice was poor when it was only my opinion from what i have observed before!

Jimbo

It's widely accepted that once a septic tank/treatment plant and percolation area is constructed and maintined correctly, it is ok to discharge grey water to it. Most, if not all, of the IAB certified aeration treatment units accept grey water.

The EPA wastewater treatment manual states that a septic tank should be capable of accepting wastewater containg detergents.

It's generally impractical to discarge it seperatly to a soakpit anyway.

muffler

jimbo78 wrote: »

It's widely accepted that once a septic tank/treatment plant and percolation area is constructed and maintined correctly, it is ok to discharge grey water to it. Most, if not all, of the IAB certified aeration treatment units accept grey water.

The EPA wastewater treatment manual states that a septic tank should be capable of accepting wastewater containg detergents.

It's generally impractical to discarge it seperatly to a soakpit anyway.

You just typed my reply for me.

I wasnt having a go and I hope you dont see it as that. When I said "poor advice" I meant it but your post above is the reply you should really have given.

Merry Xmas.

Martron

i was not having a go at anyone. and jimbos answer is a good one. i was only offering an opinion.


besides its off topic....

happy christmas

muffler

Oops. Sorry I quoted the wrong post.

muffler

Martron wrote: »

besides its off topic....

Best leave that to us

Poor Uncle Tom

Just a small point,

Soakpits are for clean water only. (quickest way to enter the watertable)
Percolation Areas for grey waters. (generally concentrated within the top metre of ground)

crossmolinalad

Martron wrote: »

i hva e seen it for myself especially on smaller tanks. and washine machines are the worst

got just in my planning perm
Im going to build a new house in co Mayo

point 3 of the pp says:
All the effluent and grey waste watershall be treated in a proprietary effluent treatment unit(septictank)capable of producing effluent of 20/30 standard which shall be discharged to an elevated percolatio area in accordiance with s.r.6 of 1991 by eolas
Reason For the protection of public health and to avoid waterpollution.

point 7 says the sludge should be disposed of in accordiance with local authority instructions or in a manner which will not cause pollution

Clening has to be done ones a year and u have to keep the prove of it that u have done it on a proper way

Short said : all the waste water of ur dwelling has to be conneted on ur septictank
Its the law

RKQ

crossmolinalad wrote: »

Short said : all the waste water of ur dwelling has to be conneted on ur septictank
Its the law

I agree with what you are saying, grey water and soiled water should go to a septic tank, which is regularly desludged - annually.

But your conditions of planning are not the law of the land!
S.R.6:1991 are Recommended Guidelines as are the E.P.A Guidelines. You should not confuse guidelines and good practice with the Law.

Mayo should really be using E.P.A Guidelines, in their planning conditions.

williamsrk

teach nua wrote: »

I am currently starting to second fix and the sewage pipework has just been completed. Is there any way of testing that the sewage pipework gradients are correct? The person that laid the pipework is soon due for paying and I would like to know that everything is correct without actually fully 'using' the system as the toiltets are only temporarily in place as the tiling in the bathrooms has not been done yet and I dont want a bad odour coming back through the pipes into the house. I'm told I have at least 1% gradient and water does flow from the toilets to the septic tank but i'm having mixed results when I add little bits of toilet paper and flush them, sometimes they travel along to the tank and sometimes they stay somewhere in the pipework and need a second flush or so. There is 54m from the furthest toilet to the tank.

i wouldnt worry about a bit of toilet paper this often happens in new pipes until bacteria and slime coats the new pipes as long as the same amount of water discharges as you have used to flush the system i have worked in many large sewer jobs and im telling you after a while they get very slippy