Reason theres so few vegetarians

vibe666 · 04-01-2009 5:36pm

rockbeer wrote: »

vibe, I don't think anyone is trying to stop you eating meat, just to point out that you're talking complete sh!te.

ah, now I see, that'll be why vegetarians are such a minority group then compared to meat eaters (or did you forget the subject of the thread?)

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Hence I haven't commented. I don't want to argue with teenagers

so having a differing opinion in contradition of your own automatically makes one a teenager? that's very funny. :rolleyes:

Slaphead07 wrote: »

I suspect age won't improve a narrow mind. There are many kinds of people I don't bother arguing with and (some) teenagers is just one small group.

are you all just plucking random comments pout of your backsides or what?

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I'd say that too but a few of my friends thought like vibe666(not 'accusing' you of being a teen) when I went to secondary with them and became vegetarian after.

i'm glad you had such an overwhelming affect on people, congratulations.

i just love how you all act so superior like you're so enlightened because you don't eat meat, throwing around quotes about vegetarianism by Einstein etc.

newsflash people, Hitler was a vegetarian too, but I don't see any of you quoting his ideals in your signatures.

get over yourselves, you're nothing special, you're just like the rest of us except you produce a lot more methane.

did it ever occur to any of you that there are so few vegetarians because there's something wrong with it? why do you think you get so much stick for not eating meat? people (normal people I mean) just think you're all very weird.

zeris · 04-01-2009 5:53pm

vibe666 wrote: »

newsflash people, Hitler was a vegetarian too, but I don't see any of you quoting his ideals in your signatures.

Hitler wasn't vegetarian.

Tar.Aldarion · 04-01-2009 6:05pm

vibe666 wrote: »

so having a differing opinion in contradition of your own automatically makes one a teenager? that's very funny. :rolleyes:

Obviously.

i just love how you all act so superior like you're so enlightened because you don't eat meat, throwing around quotes about vegetarianism by Einstein etc.

newsflash people, Hitler was a vegetarian too, but I don't see any of you quoting his ideals in your signatures.

Oh really, do enlighten me on what you know about Hitler that the rest of us don't? Oh wait you believe what you randomly hear?

get over yourselves, you're nothing special, you're just like the rest of us except you produce a lot more methane.

did it ever occur to any of you that there are so few vegetarians because there's something wrong with it? why do you think you get so much stick for not eating meat? people (normal people I mean) just think you're all very weird.

First, there are more vegetarians than there are people in the E.U., I would not call that a few.
Second,did it ever occur to any of you that women couldn't vote because there's something wrong with it? Did it ever occur to you taht tjhere was slavery because there's nothing wrong with it? Did it ever occur to any of you that black people were treated on better than people treat animals today because there's nothing wrong with it?
Thank god poeple stuck with the status quo...

vibe666 · 04-01-2009 11:43pm

zeris wrote: »

Hitler wasn't vegetarian.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Oh really, do enlighten me on what you know about Hitler that the rest of us don't? Oh wait you believe what you randomly hear?

aside from the usual veggie propaganda sites, it seems to be pretty much common knowledge. where have you been?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_of_Adolf_Hitler

several veggie quotes there from the big man himself as well as quotes form those around him.

here's a good one: "One may regret living at a period when it's impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there's one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian."

and also: "The only thing of which I shall be incapable is to share the sheiks' mutton with them. I'm a vegetarian, and they must spare me from their meat."

there's a couple of good quotes there for your sig.

it doesn't seem like he was overly strict with it (from reading the article), but he seems to have led a largely vegetarian life although it's very much played down in vegetarian literature. anyone would think you were ashamed of one of your most famous advocates or something.

<waits for someone to post a rake of pro veggies sites ranting that the big H wasn't actually a veggie>

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

First, there are more vegetarians than there are people in the E.U., I would not call that a few.

the highest % of veggies in the western world is in the UK at around 6% (3-4m, out of >60m) of the population. even in India where there are a lot of religious reasons for being vegetarian only around 33% (or estimates varying from 20%-42% depending on where you read it) of the population are veggie and in China and south America vegetarianism is almost unheard of.

are you just making stuff up as you go along?

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Second,did it ever occur to any of you that women couldn't vote because there's something wrong with it? Did it ever occur to you taht tjhere was slavery because there's nothing wrong with it? Did it ever occur to any of you that black people were treated on better than people treat animals today because there's nothing wrong with it?
Thank god poeple stuck with the status quo...

did it ever occur to you that comparing people eating meat to sexism and racism would be extremely offensive to a great deal of people?

zeris · 05-01-2009 12:38am

vibe666 wrote: »

aside from the usual veggie propaganda sites, it seems to be pretty much common knowledge. where have you been?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_of_Adolf_Hitler

So no actual evidence then? Just words and quotes from Hitler and the Nazi propaganda machine.

vibe666 wrote: »

did it ever occur to you that comparing people eating meat to sexism and racism would be extremely offensive to a great deal of people?

And the whole Hitler/Nazi thing? Not offensive?

rockbeer · 05-01-2009 12:54am

Hey, Vibe, did you know that Stalin, Pol Pot and Idi Amin were meat eaters?

I notice you don't quote them in your signature - anyone would think you were ashamed of them or something.

Jumpy · 05-01-2009 12:57am

Nature Boy wrote: »

Have you tried replacing meat with fake meats like Quorn? It might sound horrible but a lot of them are quite nice.

Quorn and that Linda McCartney stuff rocks. Im no veggie, but I really love that stuff.

SAVE_ME.222 · 05-01-2009 1:42am

vibe666 wrote: »

newsflash people, Hitler was a vegetarian too, but I don't see any of you quoting his ideals in your signatures.

get over yourselves, you're nothing special, you're just like the rest of us except you produce a lot more methane.

did it ever occur to any of you that there are so few vegetarians because there's something wrong with it? why do you think you get so much stick for not eating meat? people (normal people I mean) just think you're all very weird.

Piss off then, nobody asked you to post here.

taram · 05-01-2009 4:26am

vibe666 wrote: »

newsflash people, Hitler was a vegetarian too, but I don't see any of you quoting his ideals in your signatures.

get over yourselves, you're nothing special, you're just like the rest of us except you produce a lot more methane.

did it ever occur to any of you that there are so few vegetarians because there's something wrong with it? why do you think you get so much stick for not eating meat? people (normal people I mean) just think you're all very weird.

Hitler was Christian, does that mean Chrisitans inherit his evil? Of course they bloody well don't. Godwin's law btw.

Why does it matter that we're a minority? Do you go and give out to other minorities? And if you do, that's kinda sad. I've only ever once gotten stick for not eating meat, and he was an asshole in general so I ignored it. :P Btw, if I'm "very weird" for not eating flesh, then so be it. I'll live :rolleyes: My sister for example eats a hell of a lot of meat, but all of it is produced in the most environmentally sound way her producer can, and all slaughtered when mature and is organic. My sister would freak if you called her a veggie, but because she doesn't subscribe to the sh!tty, disgusting boiler house chickens Tesco sell for a fiver, does that make her weird? No, it makes her someone with valid choices. I don't give a toss if you eat meat, have sex with it, stick it in your hair or whatever, I just think berating people on the internet for it is pathetic.

So contribute valid stats or figures or ancedotes to why there are few veggies out there, don't bring sh!t like hitler into the equation, you're not doing yourself any favours by coming across as the "bad guy" and this has nothing to do with your views, but your attitude.

taram · 05-01-2009 4:32am

On topic, I find there are few veggies for the following reasons:
*a lot of people I know don't even cook from scratch, so a microwaveable meal is a microwavable meal, no matter what's in it
*it's awkward for eating out, I have 2 options compared to the 12 most people would have
*it requires planning for optimum protein/iron/b12 intake, but I find that's pure habit at this stage, I do it without thinking

I have to admit that I'm not a 100% veggie, I have leather shoes/bags, I sometimes eat fish from a friend's lake (organic, sustainable, whacked dead properly

when mature), but I try to educate others about their choices, and respect that once they know the facts. It's scary how little people know about their food.

vibe666 · 05-01-2009 10:50am

zeris wrote: »

So no actual evidence then? Just words and quotes from Hitler and the Nazi propaganda machine.

if you'd read the article you'd have see lots of evidence taken from many different sources around him. but feel free to choose to believe whatever you want. if you don't believe that the information is correct then feel free to edit it with your version of the truth, that's the whole point of wikipedia.

SAVE_ME.222 wrote: »

Piss off then, nobody asked you to post here.

yes they did, you were all wondering why there were so few vegetarians. if you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.

rockbeer wrote: »

Hey, Vibe, did you know that Stalin, Pol Pot and Idi Amin were meat eaters?

I notice you don't quote them in your signature - anyone would think you were ashamed of them or something.

lol, Pol Pot was a vegan, but I'll give you the other two, although you forgot to mention that Idi Amin was also rumoured to have cannibalistic tendencies from time to time.

i was just drawing attention to some of the many famous veggie quotes in people on here's signatures and the high and mighty attitude of veggies in general an then was forced to elaborate on the Hitler thing because people didn't believe he was a vegetarian, and because 5 pages into the thread it was more than time for Godwin's law to be invoked.

if a veggie diet is so good for humans, why do vegan babies keep popping up either severely malnourished or end up starving to death?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18574603/
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/11/08/child.starved/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,51494,00.html

doesn't seem very healthy to me.

EDIT: removed incorrect link.

rockbeer · 05-01-2009 11:23am

vibe666 wrote: »

lol, Pol Pot was a vegan

I've been looking without success for a reputable source to confirm this. Sadly nothing except a bunch of random internet strangers saying so. Not disagreeing with you, but have you got any evidence?

You might enjoy this.

vibe666 wrote: »

if a veggie diet is so good for humans, why do vegan babies keep popping up either severely malnourished or end up starving to death?

Idiot parents, mainly.

Incidentally, what's that last link got to do with anything? If you don't feed a baby it will die. That baby starved to death; the article makes no mention at all of what sort of diet it wasn't fed.

zeris · 05-01-2009 11:48am

vibe666 wrote: »

if you'd read the article you'd have see lots of evidence taken from many different sources around him. but feel free to choose to believe whatever you want. if you don't believe that the information is correct then feel free to edit it with your version of the truth, that's the whole point of wikipedia.

Really? 5 references? Lots of evidence? The Flying Spaghetti Monster has 44 references.

vibe666 · 05-01-2009 12:05pm

rockbeer wrote: »

I've been looking without success for a reputable source to confirm this. Sadly nothing except a bunch of random internet strangers saying so. Not disagreeing with you, but have you got any evidence?

how long do you have to not eat meat for to be a vegetarian exactly and if you've ever eaten meat what does it take to get you struck off the veggie list? hitler did live a largely vegetarian life, there's plenty of evidence to support that, so at what point do you say someone is not vegetarian?

if it's that the consumption of meat or fish at any time in your life means you're not a true vegetarian, then who on here qualifies? is there some sort o tally when you die that dictates if you qualify or not?

if i stopped eating meat tomorrow and then had a big juicy steak the day before i die does that mean I wouldn't qualify?

rockbeer wrote: »

Incidentally, what's that last link got to do with anything? If you don't feed a baby it will die. That baby starved to death; the article makes no mention at all of what sort of diet it wasn't fed.

not sure how that last one snuck in there, but I've removed it.

zeris wrote: »

Really? 5 references? Lots of evidence? The Flying Spaghetti Monster has 44 references.

yes, but the flying spaghetti monster has changed the world in a lot more subtle ways than Hitler did, so we need more proof to help people believe in his existence. also, we're up against a lot of other religions with plenty of history so we have to have as many references as possible.

rockbeer · 05-01-2009 12:18pm

vibe666 wrote: »

how long do you have to not eat meat for to be a vegetarian exactly and if you've ever eaten meat what does it take to get you struck off the veggie list? hitler did live a largely vegetarian life, there's plenty of evidence to support that, so at what point do you say someone is not vegetarian?

Hey, I only asked you to support your statement about Pol Pot with evidence.

Does this reply amount to "I read it on the Internet?"

vibe666 · 05-01-2009 12:30pm

rockbeer wrote: »

Hey, I only asked you to support your statement about Pol Pot with evidence.

Does this reply amount to "I read it on the Internet?"

lol, it was YOUR assertion that Pol Pot was a meat eater that started that particular thread of the conversation. do you have any proof to back up your assertions or did YOU just read it on the internet? :rolleyes:

mind you, he did force the whole of Cambodia into vegetarianism if that counts (except the muslims who he forced to eat pork, on pain of death).

rockbeer · 05-01-2009 12:47pm

vibe666 wrote: »

lol, it was YOUR assertion that Pol Pot was a meat eater that started that particular thread of the conversation. do you have any proof to back up your assertions or did YOU just read it on the internet? :rolleyes:

No actually, I just took a guess. Now I'm looking for actual information, being more interested in the truth than scoring a point.

vibe666 · 05-01-2009 1:22pm

rockbeer wrote: »

No actually, I just took a guess. Now I'm looking for actual information, being more interested in the truth than scoring a point.

lol, that's even worse. let me know if you find anything. :rolleyes:

rockbeer · 05-01-2009 2:08pm

vibe666 wrote: »

lol, that's even worse. let me know if you find anything. :rolleyes:

Just honest. You be sure to let me know too.

Kiddynamite · 05-01-2009 2:12pm

What's the point in arguing over trivial stuff like who was and who wasn't vegetarian?

vibe666 · 05-01-2009 2:25pm

Kiddynamite wrote: »

What's the point in arguing over trivial stuff like who was and who wasn't vegetarian?

there's no point at all, this is the internet.

you must be new. welcome.

Kiddynamite · 05-01-2009 4:09pm

vibe666 wrote: »

there's no point at all, this is the internet.

you must be new. welcome.

Ah I thought you actually had a point to all the blabbing on you were doing. I must have been mistaken.

vibe666 · 05-01-2009 4:55pm

Kiddynamite wrote: »

Ah I thought you actually had a point to all the blabbing on you were doing. I must have been mistaken.

no, much like everything else on the internet it's largely pointless.

so what is your contribution to the proceedings, or did you just come here to waffle too?

Tar.Aldarion · 07-01-2009 7:16pm

vibe666 wrote: »

aside from the usual veggie propaganda sites, it seems to be pretty much common knowledge. where have you been?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_of_Adolf_Hitler

several veggie quotes there from the big man himself as well as quotes form those around him.

here's a good one: "One may regret living at a period when it's impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there's one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian."

and also: "The only thing of which I shall be incapable is to share the sheiks' mutton with them. I'm a vegetarian, and they must spare me from their meat."

there's a couple of good quotes there for your sig.

it doesn't seem like he was overly strict with it (from reading the article), but like if he had been he seems to have led a largely vegetarian life although it's very much played down in vegetarian literature. anyone would think you were ashamed of one of your most famous advocates or something.

First off, it's not common knowledge, as most people disagree with you.
Thanks for the wikipedia link. Read some books on hitler, there are several about his diet. He was never a vegetarian, his favourite food was pidgeon. For short periods he avoided eat meat because he was advised to for his health but he never stuck to it for any length of time, he would still eat the occasional pidgeon and stuff. His chef has a book showing he always ate meat. Apparantly if somebedy ever even avoids meat they are a vegetarian whough. I would actually be happy if he had been one would show some of him was a good man. ;-)

Robert Payne is widely considered to be Hitler’s definitive biographer. In his book, Hitler Hitler: The Life and Death of Adolph Hitler, Payne says that Hitler’s “vegetarianism” was a “legend” and a “fiction” invented by Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi Minister of Propaganda. According to Payne:

“Hitler’s asceticism played an important part in the image he projected over Germany. According to the widely believed legend, he neither smoked nor drank, nor did he eat meat or have anything to do with women. Only the first was true. He drank beer and diluted wine frequently, had a special fondness for Bavarian sausages and kept a mistress, Eva Braun… His asceticism was fiction invented by Goebbels to emphasize his total dedication, his self-control, the distance that separated him from other men. By this outward show of asceticism, he could claim that he was dedicated to the service of his people. In fact he was remarkably self-indulgent and possessed none of the instincts of the ascetic.”

<waits for someone to post a rake of pro veggies sites ranting that the big H wasn't actually a veggie>

Neither veggie sites or wike are sources, read books on him there are plenty, I have only read a few but all go into depth about his eating meat even though doctors told him not to. His daily injections included animals in them btw.

the highest % of veggies in the western world is in the UK at around 6% (3-4m, out of >60m) of the population. even in India where there are a lot of religious reasons for being vegetarian only around 33% (or estimates varying from 20%-42% depending on where you read it) of the population are veggie and in China and south America vegetarianism is almost unheard of.

are you just making stuff up as you go along?

The quote comes from my ethics lecturer in college. Her figures were based on the amount of indians that are vegetarian, the amount of buddhists, jainists, krishnas etc that are vegetarian along with other people that are vegetarian. Btw if the figure of vegetarians in India was 42% that's already as much vegetarians as there is people in the E.U.

did it ever occur to you that comparing people eating meat to sexism and racism would be extremely offensive to a great deal of people?

Lol.

SAVE_ME.222 wrote: »

Piss off then, nobody asked you to post here.

Less of that or you'll get in touble.

watna · 08-01-2009 5:54am

I like the idea of being a vegetarian and I respect people that do it.

I don't think it's for me though.

1) I like the taste of meat and enjoy eating it. As bad as I feel about it I'm not ready to give that up yet. I do my best to buy organic and free range (as much as you can in NZ - they're not big on it here)
2) I suffer a lot with anaemia. A while back I cut red meat out of my diet and got a particularly long case of it. I did eat extra vegs with iron in them but it didn't seem as effective.

We've cut back on our meat a lot and every second day we eat veggie. That way we're not eating as much but I'm still getting some red meat in my diet.

A lot of people's comment in this thread are pretty ridiculous. I can nver understand people who get so offended by vegetarianism. As long as it's not being pushed on you and you are not being judged for not being a vegetarian, I don't see the problem. People are just choosing to live a different way.

What I didn't like is the OPs ignorant comment that people who aren't vegetarians don't think. Yes, some people may not be aware but, in opposition to your post, I think the vast majority of people are aware and do think about it. They just made a choice that is different then yours.

On a funny note, the statistics about India and vegetarians reminded me of something that always baffles me. My mother in law is a south African Indian and a Hindu. Every Tuesday and Thursday she fasts (this is what it is called in the community). By fasting she means she does not eat meat. She can eat everything else. It's as if, if you're not eating meat you're not really eating!

Weyhey · 20-01-2009 11:14pm

In my personal opinion I think a lot of people choose not to be vegetarian or vegan because of the effort involved.

If tasty veggie/vegan food was as widely available as meat dishes when eating out, appropriately priced and/or people knew how to cook veggie/vegan dishes at home I think a lot more veggies would exist.

dynastygal · 26-01-2009 9:55pm

projectmayhem wrote: »

Quorn and other fake meats have their qualities, but aren't actually as tastey as the meat itself. You can go 'round in circles about the rights of animals etc. but in reality this is the way the world works, and it's always worked this way.

.

That's down to preference though. I prefer soy meats to the taste of real. My dad loves soy meats even though he's a meat-eater.

Also, it hasn't always worked this way. Factory farms haven't always been around, nor has farming, ancient civilisations worked for what 'meat' they had and before that they didn't eat it at all - our ancient animal ancestors that we evolved from. Basically, before we managed to bash rock into a spear shape etc, chances are we ate very little meat and survived on vegetative matter/fruit/etc. Also, saying 'that's the way the world works' could be used to justify any horrific act, be it human or animal slaughter, to holocausts, etc.

Also, skimming the thread, I see the "hitler was a vegetarian!111!1!!" excuse has popped up, even though he wasn't, would it really matter if he was? Ghandi was, Einstein was, etc. Many famous people have been, good and bad. It says naff all about the diet though.

Tar.Aldarion · 26-01-2009 10:09pm

Certainly true, there has even been a chinese emporor and warlord that were veggie, doubt they were nice. :P
People generally use it as Reductio ad Hitlerum which is just a fallacy in logic used to try and justify their goals.

moonflower · 10-02-2009 3:38am

I think a lot of meat eaters actually don't realise where their food comes from. I'm saying this as someone who eats meat.
I know most of my friends think I'm mad when I'm wandering around the supermarket on a hunt for free range chicken breasts or asking if the eggs used in my crepe are free range. I just don't like the idea of an animal being cooped up for it's whole life, at least if it's been allowed to have a somewhat natural life I don't really feel bad about eating it.

People need to be told the facts and then they can consider whether or not they're still comfortable with scoffing down their supermacs burgers. It might also help if resteraunts and cafes sold some slightly more adventurous veggie options.

Nature Boy · 10-02-2009 1:57pm

moonflower wrote: »

It might also help if resteraunts and cafes sold some slightly more adventurous veggie options.

If only...

Reason theres so few vegetarians

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