The Cruiser

Erin Go Brath

fryup wrote: »

he never claimed to be a patriot...just a man who was willing to listen to people of a different political persuasion...instead of bombing them

He was a man who was prepared to use draconian legislation to silence his political opponents. He was apart from being unpatriotic, also an inherently undemocratic person.

P. Breathnach

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

No.. i mean the most extreme anti-Irish party he could have joined. If he joined the DUP it wouldn't even be as bad but he joined the party with the most bigotted anti-Irish philosophy that there was. Hardly the actions of a patriot now is it?

Have you no sense of irony?

Patriotism is bigotry given a name that some people think to be acceptable. [So too is loyalism, along with a few other -isms.]

TOMASJ

luckat wrote: »

I'm shocked at the cruel posts here. Conor Cruise O'Brien's family may well be reading these posts at some stage, and be devastated by these nasty, ignorant, mannerless comments.

Hope "you" were shocked by the views he had about those murdered on Bloody Sunday

fryup

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

an inherently undemocratic person.

oh i see now i get it...

so it was sinn fein and the provos who were democrats all along....blowing people up, knee capping them, shooting people in the back of the head if they opposed them...ah yes its very clear to me now:rolleyes:

Erin Go Brath

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Have you no sense of irony?

Patriotism is bigotry given a name that some people think to be acceptable. [So too is loyalism, along with a few other -isms.]

Incorrect! Patriotism is a love of ones country, bigotry is hatred or prejuidce. CCOB joined an organisation that was prejuiced against his own nation and whose policy was to have part of the Irish nation ruled completely by another nation without any input or involvement from his own nation.

Nodin

fryup wrote: »

he never claimed to be a patriot...just a man who was willing to listen to people of a different political persuasion

.....of one political persuasion, but entirely hostile to others. Had he engaged in a more meaningful way with the nationalist community, he might have helped bring peace about decades earlier. Instead he was a naysayer, and as much an obstacle to resolution as the most irreconciable Unionist or Nationalist.

fryup

Nodin wrote: »

.....of one political persuasion, but entirely hostile to others. Had he engaged in a more meaningful way with the nationalist community, he might have helped bring peace about decades earlier. Instead he was a naysayer, and as much an obstacle to resolution as the most irreconciable Unionist or Nationalist.

hostile?? get real will you.......just because he had differences with them doesn't mean he was hostile to them.......anyway he did'nt have enough influence to bring bring about peace in the north...the only ones who could have done that were the provos ...as in 94 with the ceasefire

Erin Go Brath

fryup wrote: »

oh i see now i get it...

so it was sinn fein and the provos who were democrats all along....blowing people up, knee capping them, shooting people in the back of the head if they opposed them...ah yes its very clear to me now:rolleyes:

In the face of sectarianism, gerrymandering, jobs and housing discrimination, police and security forces in collusion with loyalist terrorists, and a state which was truly a protestant state for a protestant people which undermined and conspired against Catholics at every opportunity will inevitable spring revolution. If you kick a dog enough, eventually it will have enough and turn around and bite you! Your selective nitpicking of the provos campaign doesn't come close to acknowledging the reality of life in the 6 Counties and what caused the people to do what they did! Incredible how some people allow one of the most undemocratic Govts of all time off the hook so lightly!

stovelid

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Incorrect! Patriotism is a love of ones country, bigotry is hatred or prejuidce. .

Funny how they both end up with dead bodies though, isn't it?

interlocked

Do you remeber when O'Brien used to be given free reign in the leader page of the Irish Indo every Saturday, i thought for a long while that it was a satirical piece until I realised that the guy was deadly serious and that lack of self regard wasn't one of his failings.

Some of the more memorable outbursts included

Netanyahu (who of course was lauded as a shoo to be next Israeli prime minister) was a very good friend of his, and upon appointment he was expected to send a plane for the cruiser in order that the Cruisers plan to pacify the middle east could be enacted. Netanyahu didn't get the job.

The Irish army were so discomfited at the attitude of the govt parties engaged in talks in NI that he was expecting them to launch a coup d'etat unless the govt withdrew their horns (I'd say that sent the cornflakes spluttering across the table in the Curragh)

The peace process in the North was NEVER going to work as the two sides were irreconcilable and anyway Sinn Fein were the spawn of Satan and that Bob McCartney(another good friend) was the only saviour of Norn Iron. This line was propounded as infalliable gospel

And loads more knockabout stuff. The most amazing thing was that the best selling broadsheet in the country thought that giving the ranting of the old coot such prominence was legitimate analysis.

I thought he was a pompous bollix when he was alive, the fact that he died doesn't change that opinion.

fryup

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

In the face of sectarianism, gerrymandering, jobs and housing discrimination, police and security forces in collusion with loyalist terrorists, and a state which was truly a protestant state for a protestant people which undermined and conspired against Catholics at every opportunity will inevitable spring revolution. If you kick a dog enough, eventually it will have enough and turn around and bite you! Your selective nitpicking of the provos campaign doesn't come close to acknowledging the reality of life in the 6 Counties and what caused the people to do what they did! Incredible how some people allow one of the most undemocratic Govts of all time off the hook so lightly!

the british made the mistake of not having direst rule from day one instead of giving the unionists carte blanche

you say the north was sectarian state....but so was the republic...the republic was a catholic country for catholic people
look at the way the protestant & jewish communites were driven out ..nobody had the morale upper hand in irish politics

TOMASJ

Here we go again, Republicans were wrong for having the audacity to want a united country, and anyone who opposed them was a knight in shining armour,
same old same old on this board.
Thing is if their had been no Republicans, there would be no 26 counties,

José Alaninho

fryup wrote: »

the british made the mistake of not having direst rule from day one instead of giving the unionists carte blanche

So the rule of the Six Counties by a foreign government would have been far better than the rule they had by the unionist élite, who were after all merely representatives and defenders of British power in Ireland? Oh, and the marvelous job done by the direct-rule government in lets say, internment 1971, Bloody Sunday, the inhuman conditions of the H-Blocks, the shoot-to-kill policy of the SAS death squads, British army / MI5 collusion with loyalist murderers, etc, etc.... Oh, yes, London should have had the job from day one. Would have saved the RUC all the bother by getting the British army to do their dirty work for them.

Disgusting attitude to have IMO.

Oh, and before I forget - Conor Cruise O'Brien: good riddance.

destroyer

interlocked wrote: »

Do you remeber when O'Brien used to be given free reign in the leader page of the Irish Indo every Saturday, i thought for a long while that it was a satirical piece until I realised that the guy was deadly serious and that lack of self regard wasn't one of his failings.

Some of the more memorable outbursts included

Netanyahu (who of course was lauded as a shoo to be next Israeli prime minister) was a very good friend of his, and upon appointment he was expected to send a plane for the cruiser in order that the Cruisers plan to pacify the middle east could be enacted. Netanyahu didn't get the job.

The Irish army were so discomfited at the attitude of the govt parties engaged in talks in NI that he was expecting them to launch a coup d'etat unless the govt withdrew their horns (I'd say that sent the cornflakes spluttering across the table in the Curragh)

The peace process in the North was NEVER going to work as the two sides were irreconcilable and anyway Sinn Fein were the spawn of Satan and that Bob McCartney(another good friend) was the only saviour of Norn Iron. This line was propounded as infalliable gospel

And loads more knockabout stuff. The most amazing thing was that the best selling broadsheet in the country thought that giving the ranting of the old coot such prominence was legitimate analysis.

I thought he was a pompous bollix when he was alive, the fact that he died doesn't change that opinion.

Here here ,The trouble with CCOB was that he thought all his opinions were infallible gospel and had to be drummed into us week after week coz we were a bit thick (unlike him). It nearly killed him when the peace process started to work.

fryup

José Alaninho wrote: »

So the rule of the Six Counties by a foreign government would have been far better than the rule they had by the unionist élite, who were after all merely representatives and defenders of British power in Ireland?

if there was direct rule esp under a labour govt...we would'nt have had the discimination and gerrymaundering that led to the troubles


and as for shoot to kill........

what about the provos...did they shoot to tickle??..afterall it was them who said there was a war on in the north

P. Breathnach

TOMASJ wrote: »

Thing is if their had been no Republicans, there would be no 26 counties,

You mean the republicans brought about partition? How unpatriotic.

oscarBravo

This thread is about Conor Cruise O'Brien. Keep it on topic.

P. Breathnach

oscarBravo wrote: »

This thread is about Conor Cruise O'Brien. Keep it on topic.

I'd be happy if you cleaned out off-topic contributions and, I would hope, the intemperate posts expressing hatred and nothing else.

A Dub in Glasgo

He came across as a total nut case and bigot in his actions and his writings. His innate ramblings in the Indo/Sindo should be preserved as comedy gold.

TOMASJ

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You mean the republicans brought about partition? How unpatriotic.

Conor Cruise types, brought about partition by not sticking to there guns , so to speak.

José Alaninho

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'd be happy if you cleaned out off-topic contributions and, I would hope, the intemperate posts expressing hatred and nothing else.

Yes oscarBravo, in fact delete ALL the posts expressing a contrary viewpoint that he was anything but a saint, and rename it the 'Conor Cruise O'Brien book of condolences'. Far better.

P. Breathnach

José Alaninho wrote: »

Yes oscarBravo, in fact delete ALL the posts expressing a contrary viewpoint that he was anything but a saint, and rename it the 'Conor Cruise O'Brien book of condolences'. Far better.

Try reading what I wrote: I never suggested that.

blinding

Will "Gagger O' Briens" coffin be draped in the union Jack and will he be given full british military honours for his service to the british empire?

oscarBravo

What part of keep it on topic was unclear?

José Alaninho

oscarBravo wrote: »

What part of keep it on topic was unclear?

Apologies; some things just have to be said.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

LordSutch

Very good (positive) write-up about the Cruiser in todays Irish Times, he was an intellectual, he was outspoken, he was cold, very intense, a true Irish Man, very intelligent but sometimes contradictory in many respects, he was also fervently 'Anti Provo' to which I say "well done Conor", & may he rest in peace.

Interesting how many prople in this Thread are now looking back at the Provo activities (Murder, extortion, knee cappings, bank robberies, etc) through rose tinted spectacles, with some people now saying that Conor Cruise O'Brien was the baddie, while Gerry Adams & the Povo's were the Good Guys :mad:

Conor Cruise O'Brien R.I.P

TOMASJ

I suppose, before he kicked the bucket, he saw the error of his ways on a lot of things he believed in,
like the positives for unionists in a 32 county Ireland,

maybe we will get another book to the effect that the IRA were correct in their fight,

funny how old blokes wise up before they die,

fryup

TOMASJ wrote: »

maybe we will get another book to the effect that the IRA were correct in their fight,

funny how old blokes wise up before they die,

correct in their fight??..........like killing innocent people??

i think you need to wise up

TOMASJ

fryup;58328351]

correct in their fight??..........like killing innocent people??

i think you need to wise up

I'm trying to stay on topic here,
maybe you are allowed to take the subject of Conor Cruises life and death off topic without being banned,
But I do not have "your" privileges, So I can not reply to you post.;)