Champions League Top 16 draw

stovelid

titan18 wrote: »

I think all 4 English teams will be out of the competition though in this round.I cant see anyone of them getting through.

Highly unlikely.

Iago

titan18 wrote: »

I did read the post actually and I agree that the Italian teams will see these games as a chance to qualify.I think all 4 English teams will be out of the competition though in this round.I cant see anyone of them getting through.Barcelona should walk away it aswell

what odds are you offering?

titan18

redout wrote: »

Are you smokin the Wacky Tobacky brother ? Bar a disaster of catastrophic proportions the only place you will see that happen is when your off your head in the clouds.

What?The way the draw worked out I think it'll happen.Real can beat Liverpool.They have the talent and the team to do it.Arsenal can lose or beat anyone in the competition.It's safer to say they'll lose though.If Juventus go back to Turin with a lead to hold on to,Chelsea will find it very hard to do anything against.I see that tie as the most boring game adn it'll probably be decided by a Del Piero free kick or something.

I think that Inter will beat United convincingly aswell.If both sides go in there with their best players available to select, I think Inter willwin.Ronaldo doesnt perform in the big games and he looks like he doesnt care this season anyway.So I think Inter will win.

Of course anything can happen between now and February, injuries or whatever else.

Bubs101

redout wrote: »

Please I expect all 3 english teams to advance and looking at Mourinho's results so far he has not improved Inter in Europe. He does know how to do it but the problem is Inter are not as good as Chelsea. I will eat humble pie if Inter advance. When it comes to the Italian teams I would be more worried by Roma as they actually have put in good performances over recent seasons and beaten some good sides. They have beaten Lyon, Real Madrid, Man Utd and Chelsea over the past three seasons.

Inter's group results were poor, but they had effectively qualified by the time the really poor results ran in and he has built a commanding lead in Serie A. The quality of the teams is around the same bar Ronaldo and considering how far away the matches are it's impossible to make a serious prediction about who will go through now.

delija_sever029

titan18 wrote: »

What?The way the draw worked out I think it'll happen.Real can beat Liverpool.They have the talent and the team to do it.Arsenal can lose or beat anyone in the competition.It's safer to say they'll lose though.If Juventus go back to Turin with a lead to hold on to,Chelsea will find it very hard to do anything against.I see that tie as the most boring game adn it'll probably be decided by a Del Piero free kick or something.

I think that Inter will beat United convincingly aswell.If both sides go in there with their best players available to select, I think Inter willwin.Ronaldo doesnt perform in the big games and he looks like he doesnt care this season anyway.So I think Inter will win.

Well in this round of competition there are no bad teams so its logical everyone can beat everyone and what will happen only God knows for sure,maybe we will watch "Porto-Monaco" season too,but to say you are sure all 4 english clubs will get eliminated is kinda immature

keane2097

The suggestion that three of the semi-finalists from last years competition will be gone after the second round this year is fairly ludicrous imo...

The law of averages if nothing else dictates one of them will shnake through...

Also, there's Arsenal...

titan18

delija_sever029 wrote: »

Well in this round of competition there are no bad teams so its logical everyone can beat everyone and what will happen only God knows for sure,maybe we will watch "Porto-Monaco" season too,but to say you are sure all 4 english clubs will get eliminated is kinda immature

I said "I think all 4 four english teams won't get through".A bit different than I'm sure all 4 english teams won't get through

newballsplease

liverpool and arsenal out imo

titan18

keane2097 wrote: »

The suggestion that three of the semi-finalists from last years competition will be gone after the second round this year is fairly ludicrous imo...

The law of averages if nothing else dictates one of them will shnake through...

Also, there's Arsenal...

Look at this decade and check out how many times your law of averages works.There have been a few years where only 1 team from the semi-finals has got to the quarter finals the season later.Sure,look at the winners of the CL of the last few seasons.How many of them did well the year after?

keane2097

titan18 wrote: »

Look at this decade and check out how many times your law of averages works.There have been a few years where only 1 team from the semi-finals has got to the quarter finals the season later.Sure,look at the winners of the CL of the last few seasons.How many of them did well the year after?

Four English teams all playing sides of roughly equal quality - 50/50 games essentially.

.5x4=2

I predict at least two English teams get through (I say at least because I think at least two of the English teams are significantly better than their opposition, and so have a greater than 50% chance of progression).

You citing four or five years results shows a distinct lack of understanding of what a law of averages is by the way, but that's probably immaterial...

titan18

keane2097 wrote: »

Four English teams all playing sides of roughly equal quality - 50/50 games essentially.

.5x4=2

I predict at least two English teams get through (I say at least because I think at least two of the English teams are significantly better than their opposition, and so have a greater than 50% chance of progression).

You citing four or five years results shows a distinct lack of understanding of what a law of averages is by the way, but that's probably immaterial...

Every game is 50/50, no matter what sides are playing.There's always a chance taht something strange will happen.A fluke early goal and the team sits back and has 11 men behind the ball.Surely, you can tell by Premiership games that this happens a lot. You cant use probability for most sports, other than say each team has a 50/50 chance of winning.If teams were doing well one year in the CL, then the next year, you'd expect something similar.It rarely happens like that.Milan were one of the most consistent teams around in the CL and they're playing in the UEFA Cup now.The law of averages doesnt allow for different variables in a game.THe tactics of each team, any injuries that happen in the match, the weather, the state of the pitch or anything at all.You've given the simplest form of statistics and probability.That doesnt hold up at all.

Everyone has an opinion and mine was that I think all 4 english teams will be out of the CL this round.What would the probability of Porto winning the CL been or that Monaco were in the final.Or that Liverpool would have gotten to 2 CL finals in the last few years despite the fact taht they were struggling to finish in the CL places in the Premiership.

In a knockout tournament, probability and statistics are completely irrelevant.

keane2097

titan18 wrote: »

Every game is 50/50, no matter what sides are playing.There's always a chance taht something strange will happen.

These two things are not the same. If this was the case every team would be even money to win every game, and every team would end up with the same amount of points at the end of every season.

I couldn't possibly go into all the things wrong with your post, but suffice it to say if you think statistical mathematics can't apply in situations like this you are completely, utterly and in all other ways wrong.

Actually, this sums it up pretty well imo:-

titan18 wrote: »

In a knockout tournament, probability and statistics are completely irrelevant.

Well, that's the end of bookmakers so...

titan18

keane2097 wrote: »

These two things are not the same. If this was the case every team would be even money to win every game, and every team would end up with the same amount of points at the end of every season.

I couldn't possibly go into all the things wrong with your post, but suffice it to say if you think statistical mathematics can't apply in situations like this you are completely, utterly and in all other ways wrong.

Actually, this sums it up pretty well imo:-



Well, that's the end of bookmakers so...

Are bookmakers always right or something?They exist purely cos of the greed of people.How does every game being 50/50 make it that every team end up on the same amount of points?Every team has an equal base chance of winning going into every game.As I said in my previous post, different variables are brought into the equation then like tactics, the strength of teams,the weather, home advantage etc.Bookmakers do not use the law of averages,which is a horrible way to judge somehting, but they use proper statistical equations.In American football, the term "Any given Sunday" is used.THis means that on any Sunday(gameday) any team has a chance to win.Whether they are the worst or best in the league.Although, soccer is not equivalent in terms of team balance,the same principle applies.How else can you explain Arsenal, who are infinitely more times talented and skillful teams than the majority of teams in Europe, being capable of losing.How on one weekend a few weeks ago, the "top 4" failed to score a goal.Were the bookmakers able to predict that?Probability has no relevance to soccer.

keane2097

titan18 wrote: »

Are bookmakers always right or something?They exist purely cos of the greed of people.How does every game being 50/50 make it that every team end up on the same amount of points?Every team has an equal base chance of winning going into every game.As I said in my previous post, different variables are brought into the equation then like tactics, the strength of teams,the weather, home advantage etc.Bookmakers do not use the law of averages,which is a horrible way to judge somehting, but they use proper statistical equations.In American football, the term "Any given Sunday" is used.THis means that on any Sunday(gameday) any team has a chance to win.Whether they are the worst or best in the league.Although, soccer is not equivalent in terms of team balance,the same principle applies.How else can you explain Arsenal, who are infinitely more times talented and skillful teams than the majority of teams in Europe, being capable of losing.How on one weekend a few weeks ago, the "top 4" failed to score a goal.Were the bookmakers able to predict that?Probability has no relevance to soccer.

Look I'm not trying to piss you off or tell you you're stupid or anything, but what you're saying here is just wrong. All of it. I

could go through it with you but from your glaringly obvious lack of knowledge I'd say you'd have no interest in hearing the explanation.

PM me if you want to discuss it further cos I don't want to hijack the thread.

Just the one thing I can't let slide is this:-

titan18 wrote: »

Every team has an equal base chance of winning going into every game.As I said in my previous post, different variables are brought into the equation then like tactics, the strength of teams,the weather, home advantage etc.

There's no such thing as a "base chance of winning". You've simply invented that in your brain. Chelsea versus Derby County is not 50/50. The reason is that the factors you have mentioned (tactics, the strength of teams,the weather, home advantage) are inherent to the game. The game can't be assessed without them so the "base chance of winning" idea is simply a nonsense. The only way it could possibly be 50/50 is if all these elements balance out perfectly and that would simply be a fluke.

ghouldaddy07

Freaked utd got inter, Fergie always goes to negative when faced with the special one.

Then again if inter play anywere hear as bad as they did against liverpool utd could destroy them.

eZe^

SantryRed wrote: »

Barca won't win this competition.

They can't keep this form up. When they go off the boil, someone will take advantage and they'll be knocked out.

They said the same thing in 05-06... It's amusing that you are declaring that Barca WON'T win the competition, yet all possible current signs say they are one of the favourites. Who's worse, the naive people that guarantee they'll win the competition this early, or the ones who in the face of all visible evidence are completely writing them off?


And people thinking Liverpool will stroll past Real Madrid should get their heads examined. They are playing a team who has a manager arguably better than Benitez when it comes to 2-legged knock out competitions, at Sevilla he won 5 cups in 15 months. Also, Madrid tend to win the CL when they do spectacularly bad in the Liga, just look at their CL record and Liga record in 1997, 1999 and 2001 where once they finished 5th in the league, another time 4th and finally 3rd. Write them off at your peril tbh.

keane2097

eZe^ wrote: »

And people thinking Liverpool will stroll past Real Madrid should get their heads examined. They are playing a team who has a manager arguably better than Benitez when it comes to 2-legged knock out competitions, at Sevilla he won 5 cups in 15 months. Also, Madrid tend to win the CL when they do spectacularly bad in the Liga, just look at their CL record and Liga record in 1997, 1999 and 2001 where once they finished 5th in the league, another time 4th and finally 3rd. Write them off at your peril tbh.

I think they have less quality now though - that's the key difference for me, although that's obviously just a personal opinion.

That said, I do think this match could go either way - I do fancy Liverpool to do the business though provided they have a full team...

eZe^

keane2097 wrote: »

I think they have less quality now though - that's the key difference for me, although that's obviously just a personal opinion.

That said, I do think this match could go either way - I do fancy Liverpool to do the business though provided they have a full team...

Maybe so, but I just don't think it's anywhere near a sure thing for either team!

Bobalicious93

redout wrote: »

United Reserves ?

The team that night when we were beaten 2-1 in April 2007 was:


Man Utd: Van der Sar, Heinze, Ferdinand, O'Shea, Brown, Ronaldo, Giggs (Saha 77), Carrick, Scholes, Rooney, Solskjaer (Fletcher 72).

I would not call that the reserves. Nine of that same team won 7-1 a week later.

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Heinze, O'Shea (Evra 52), Ronaldo, Fletcher, Carrick (Richardson 73), Giggs (Solskjaer 61), Rooney, Smith

Sorry I forgot about that match I was thinking of the last group game last season

SantryRed

eZe^ wrote: »

They said the same thing in 05-06... It's amusing that you are declaring that Barca WON'T win the competition, yet all possible current signs say they are one of the favourites. Who's worse, the naive people that guarantee they'll win the competition this early, or the ones who in the face of all visible evidence are completely writing them off?

I just can't see them keeping it up. Yes they're one of the favourites, but i just don't think they'll have enough. If Liverpool get them in a later round(if they beat Madrid), I'd fully expect Rafa to have one over on Guardiola and do him over with tactics.

eZe^

SantryRed wrote: »

I just can't see them keeping it up. Yes they're one of the favourites, but i just don't think they'll have enough. If Liverpool get them in a later round(if they beat Madrid), I'd fully expect Rafa to have one over on Guardiola and do him over with tactics.

I think the most important thing to note about Barcelona this year is Guardiola's tactics, his footballing brain was second to none and that's being transferred into his managerial style, he has made all the right decisions so far this season. I don't feel there's any reason for us be scared if we draw Liverpool. Sure it'll be an excellent tie that could go either way, but I'm much much less worried about Rafa's tactics with Guardiola, whereas Frank Rijkaard to a certain extent was one dimensional, and needed Ten Cate's to handle the tactics/ motivational side of the team.

keane2097

eZe^ wrote: »

Maybe so, but I just don't think it's anywhere near a sure thing for either team!

Certainly agree with you there.

redout

eZe^ wrote: »

They said the same thing in 05-06... It's amusing that you are declaring that Barca WON'T win the competition, yet all possible current signs say they are one of the favourites. Who's worse, the naive people that guarantee they'll win the competition this early, or the ones who in the face of all visible evidence are completely writing them off?


And people thinking Liverpool will stroll past Real Madrid should get their heads examined. They are playing a team who has a manager arguably better than Benitez when it comes to 2-legged knock out competitions, at Sevilla he won 5 cups in 15 months. Also, Madrid tend to win the CL when they do spectacularly bad in the Liga, just look at their CL record and Liga record in 1997, 1999 and 2001 where once they finished 5th in the league, another time 4th and finally 3rd. Write them off at your peril tbh.

I dont know about Liverpool strolling past Real Madrid but to seriously consider them as eventual winners is a bit far fetched. No bookies are certainly taking them as serious contendenders. On current form no big european club will be worried about them. Yes come february things can change we all know but why suggest they will. They can just as easily remain the same.

Real Madrids champions league record the past five seasons has been abmismal. They dont possess the quality of players that won those three european cups you mentioned. There are far superior teams in the tournament. They will have to work hard just to make 3rd-4th in liga. Even if Madrid improved there are five teams ahead of them and to suggest all five will fall away would be again far fetched.

Liverpool could cause them real problems and the last time I checked Benitez was not to bad at the cup competitions himself winning Uefa cup and Champions league in back to back seasons. Reached the champions league final a second time and several semi-finals and won an FA Cup. In fact one could argue Benitez has the better record considering he has won the bigger trophies, beaten the bigger teams and been to the bigger finals.

Real Madrid can never be written off but this season I reckon will be too much of an ask for them and back to the point I made earlier they dont possess the quality of players which won them three european cups in five years. If not Liverpool then another side will knock them out. I would guess quarter-finalists at best unless they were to recieve a kind draw in the next round. But even if they were to recieve a kind draw they will eventully come up against a better side.

titan18

On Real Madrid, why do ye think they're not capable of winning the trophy.On current form,I understand why, but with the amount of injuries they have, that's understandable.I mean what team wouldn't suffer when Van Nistelrroy,Sneijder,Robben,Diarra,Pepe,Heinze were missing against Barcelona.Well,Sneijder didnt play long so I'm counting him.Cannavaro was out for a while,so was Higuain.

They have had bad luck this year with injuries.No one can deny that.Huntelaar is coming in in January.Who knows who else will be?I could never write off a team with that much talent

redout

titan18 wrote: »

On Real Madrid, why do ye think they're not capable of winning the trophy.On current form,I understand why, but with the amount of injuries they have, that's understandable.I mean what team wouldn't suffer when Van Nistelrroy,Sneijder,Robben,Diarra,Pepe,Heinze were missing against Barcelona.Well,Sneijder didnt play long so I'm counting him.Cannavaro was out for a while,so was Higuain.

They have had bad luck this year with injuries.No one can deny that.Huntelaar is coming in in January.Who knows who else will be?I could never write off a team with that much talent

I think that there is better teams than Real Madrid in the tournament and as regards the injuries and Barca match I still believe Barca would have won the game. It was not Barca's fault that Madrid had injuries. They can only beat who is put in front of them and have done so.

eZe^

redout wrote: »

I think that there is better teams than Real Madrid in the tournament and as regards the injuries and Barca match I still believe Barca would have won the game. It was not Barca's fault that Madrid had injuries. They can only beat who is put in front of them and have done so.

There's the cold hard fact that best team doesn't necessarily win the tournament though.

redout

eZe^ wrote: »

There's the cold hard fact that best team doesn't necessarily win the tournament though.

That's true but there is too many better than Madrid and one of them at least is likely to win. Before anyone ridicules the English side's be realistic they all have strong teams and all four have been to the final since 2006 and two of the competitions last four winners have been English. In fact there even remains the possibilty that the last 4 winners of the competition could have been Engish sides. Teams I consider a bigger threat to winning the Champions league.

Chelsea
Roma
Man Utd
Barca
Liverpool
Arsenal

SantryRed

People have to remember there's a long time until February too. A lot of things could happen between now and then.

eZe^

Still though, best last 16 tie I can remember, some unbelievable games.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Reckon that Liverpool will try and catch real on the break away, then get them to Anfield and if they have the away goal, let them come at us and put them to the sword. Torres could be injured again by that stage mind

dreamers75

Chelsea v Juventus confortbaly

Villarreal v Panathinaikos by virtue of shocking defending from the other team


Sporting Lisbon v Bayern Munich easily game over in 1st leg


Atletico Madrid v FC Porto penos cant call it, would like to athletico but ropey at the back and porto too


Lyon v Barcelona there i said it, Lyon are ready for a decent run in CL and reckon they have the strikers to take that one chance.


Real Madrid v Liverpool easily and to nil


Arsenal v Roma another toughie cant call it, depends on which arsenal shows up and which roma shows up


Inter Milan v Manchester United1-0 over 2 legs poxy goal.




CL is ****ing great

Headshot

dreamers75 wrote: »

Chelsea v Juventus confortbaly



Lyon v Barcelona there i said it, Lyon are ready for a decent run in CL and reckon they have the strikers to take that one chance.

wow

im speechless

delija_sever029

dreamers75 wrote: »

Lyon v Barcelona there i said it, Lyon are ready for a decent run in CL and reckon they have the strikers to take that one chance.

I supose you counted someone will poison barca's players night before the game when you wrote this

Headshot

delija_sever029 wrote: »

I supose you counted someone will poison barca's players night before the game when you wrote this

delijia i think your thinking of spurs

delija_sever029

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

delijia i think your thinking of Arsenal

*checks*

No... i was talking about Lyon...wait..hm....or Arsen...crap

redout

Lyon are a good side. We had them last season in the first knock-out round and drew the first leg 1 - 1 with Tevez scoring right at the end and beat them 1 - 0 at Old Trafford. By no means a walkover for Barcelona. Should be a good game, remember that Lyon have some top players Juninho Pernambuco, Fred, Benzema, Grosso, Govou.

dreamers75

barca are brilliant but these games are a long way away and Lyon geared solely for them.

tis my opinion thats all ,just think Lyon will make semis as they been building for it and every other time they knocked out its was because they missed their one golden chance in the game, just think this year they can take that chance.

lol proly end 6-1 to barca with Lyon scoring that one chance but just think they can step up so to speak.

Mr.Nice Guy

I'm sure it's been mentioned already but what a pity that near the end United didn't draw Madrid and likewise same goes for Liverpool and Inter. They would have been EPIC encounters. Madrid and United for their war of words over Ronaldo plus the return of Heinze, and then you'd have Mourinho heading back to Anfield after the controversy he's been involved in with Pool fans, plus the tempered history with Rafa. So close to seeing it!

With that being said, the draw is nonetheless very good indeed and I'd say Madrid and Liverpool is probably the tie of the round, for name value mainly, although Fergie pitting his wits against Mourinho should be fascinating.

Chelsea v Juventus

Verdict: I think this is a handy tie for Chelsea. It will be interesting with Ranieri going back but I think with their big guns back Chelsea will see off Juve pretty comfortably.

Villarreal v Panathinaikos

Verdict: A good tie for both teams but it's hard to see past the Spanish edging this one out.

Sporting Lisbon v Bayern Munich

Verdict: Tough one to call but would fancy Bayern for their better experience.

Atletico Madrid v FC Porto

Verdict: Another tough one to predict but I'd fancy Porto's firepower to see them through. There should be plenty of goals.

Lyon v Barcelona

Verdict: Might be tricky for Barca in France but I fancy them to tie up any loose ends with ease at the Nou Camp.

Real Madrid v Liverpool

Verdict: I reckon this one will be close and could go right to the wire. Since Liverpool tend to emerge from such scenarios I'll say them just.

Arsenal v Roma

Verdict: Would like to see Arsenal progress but I think it might be tears in Rome for Wenger on the return leg. Hope I'm wrong.

Inter Milan v Manchester United

Verdict: It's intriguing with the 'Jose factor' but even his presence doesn't disguise the fact that Inter are very much a work in progress whereas United are near to being the finished article. I fancy by February Berba and co will be firing with all guns blazing and I think United progress in this one.

Boggles

We will see how good Barcalona are in the next couple of games, Villareal away, a match in which they were hammered last season and Mallorca at home a game they also lost.

They are 7 points better off than they were at this stage last season hardly ground breaking, they have put away a good few goals but they have been drawn against week opposition in the first half of the season.

In Europe they had in some respects the easiest group, I wouldn't be getting too carried away just yet with them, Madrid are missing alot of big players, not Barcas fault but it cannot be dismissed either.

eagle eye

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'm sure it's been mentioned already but what a pity that near the end United didn't draw Madrid and likewise same goes for Liverpool and Inter. They would have been EPIC encounters. Madrid and United for their war of words over Ronaldo plus the return of Heinze, and then you'd have Mourinho heading back to Anfield after the controversy he's been involved in with Pool fans, plus the tempered history with Rafa. So close to seeing it!

With that being said, the draw is nonetheless very good indeed and I'd say Madrid and Liverpool is probably the tie of the round, for name value mainly, although Fergie pitting his wits against Mourinho should be fascinating.

Chelsea v Juventus

Verdict: I think this is a handy tie for Chelsea. It will be interesting with Ranieri going back but I think with their big guns back Chelsea will see off Juve pretty comfortably.

Villarreal v Panathinaikos

Verdict: A good tie for both teams but it's hard to see past the Spanish edging this one out.

Sporting Lisbon v Bayern Munich

Verdict: Tough one to call but would fancy Bayern for their better experience.

Atletico Madrid v FC Porto

Verdict: Another tough one to predict but I'd fancy Porto's firepower to see them through. There should be plenty of goals.

Lyon v Barcelona

Verdict: Might be tricky for Barca in France but I fancy them to tie up any loose ends with ease at the Nou Camp.

Real Madrid v Liverpool

Verdict: I reckon this one will be close and could go right to the wire. Since Liverpool tend to emerge from such scenarios I'll say them just.

Arsenal v Roma

Verdict: Would like to see Arsenal progress but I think it might be tears in Rome for Wenger on the return leg. Hope I'm wrong.

Inter Milan v Manchester United

Verdict: It's intriguing with the 'Jose factor' but even his presence doesn't disguise the fact that Inter are very much a work in progress whereas United are near to being the finished article. I fancy by February Berba and co will be firing with all guns blazing and I think United progress in this one.

How on earth can you say that Chelsea have a handy tie? This is Juventus who have been in superb form, the team that went to the Bernabeau and taught Real Madrid a lesson in the group stages.

Also, Inter Milan a work in progress? They won Serie A for the third time in a row last season and are on course for four in a row.

I'd disagree with you prediction on the Athletico/Porto game, I fancy Athletico to win that one.

I'm not saying that Chelsea will be beaten by the way, I'm just saying that its a tough tie and I wouldn't like to predict the outcome at this early stage.
On United/Inter tie, same applies for me, Inter are a very good side and there is every chance they could beat United.

One more thing, why do you mention the big whte elephant as being there? Its becoming clear that Berbatov is not going to make it at United.

Mr.Nice Guy

eagle eye wrote: »

How on earth can you say that Chelsea have a handy tie? This is Juventus who have been in superb form, the team that went to the Bernabeau and taught Real Madrid a lesson in the group stages.

How can I say it? Well because Chelsea were the runners-up last year and have important players still to to return. Italian football meanwhile has been in the doldrums for years and is not what it once was. Beating Real Madrid doesn't impress me one iota as that club has been a circus act for years. The recent appointment of Ramos highlights that. Teaching Real Madrid a lesson these days is a bit like beating your frail grandad in an arm-wrestling contest. It's not exactly something to brag about.

eagle eye wrote:

Also, Inter Milan a work in progress? They won Serie A for the third time in a row last season and are on course for four in a row.

Serie A is irrelevant in my eyes because as I said Italian football is no longer the force it once was. When was the last time Italian teams did anything of note in the Champions League? I think as far as Europe goes they are most definitely a work in progress and it will take time for Jose to work his magic there if he wants to try and do what he did with Porto.

eagle eye wrote:

I'm not saying that Chelsea will be beaten by the way, I'm just saying that its a tough tie and I wouldn't like to predict the outcome at this early stage.
On United/Inter tie, same applies for me, Inter are a very good side and there is every chance they could beat United.

Well time will tell but I really think you give Italian football too much credit. I'd be astonished if the English teams have to go right to the wire to beat out the Italian sides. I just can't see that. I'd be fairly confident it will be comfortable for both English teams in the end.

eagle eye wrote:

One more thing, why do you mention the big whte elephant as being there? Its becoming clear that Berbatov is not going to make it at United.

Well I personally don't think that's clear at all. The guy has obviously underperformed since his big move but I've heard talk of him being another Veron-style flop which I just don't accept. I reckon he was bought primarily to aid United's efforts to retain the Champions League and in European games so far he's done alright. He'll come good eventually. Benitez has maybe lost faith in Keane but I don't believe Fergie has lost, or will lose, faith in Berbatov.

Pyjamarama

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Serie A is irrelevant in my eyes because as I said Italian football is no longer the force it once was. When was the last time Italian teams did anything of note in the Champions League? I think as far as Europe goes they are most definitely a work in progress and it will take time for Jose to work his magic there if he wants to try and do what he did with Porto.

So we're ignoring AC winning it two years ago?

Mr.Nice Guy

Pyjamarama wrote: »

So we're ignoring AC winning it two years ago?

Fair enough that had slipped my mind though it didn't mean a shift in power by any means. In fact as I recall that year I think both Liverpool and Milan were nowhere near being top of their leagues. Interesting too to note where Milan are now. How the mighty have fallen.

ditpoker

Pyjamarama wrote: »

So we're ignoring AC winning it two years ago?

L O L

eZe^

Boggles wrote: »

We will see how good Barcalona are in the next couple of games, Villareal away, a match in which they were hammered last season and Mallorca at home a game they also lost.

They are 7 points better off than they were at this stage last season hardly ground breaking, they have put away a good few goals but they have been drawn against week opposition in the first half of the season.

In Europe they had in some respects the easiest group, I wouldn't be getting too carried away just yet with them, Madrid are missing alot of big players, not Barcas fault but it cannot be dismissed either.

What a load of bollocks. They'll be tested in their next few games? What about their past 3 games where they haven gotten 3 out of 4 of their hardest ties this year out of the way by scoring 9 and conceding nothing?

They haven't been tested by Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Valencia or Sevilla have they? Villareal will be a tough tough game, but to say they haven't been tested is laughable. Valencia at the Camp Nou and Sevilla at the Ramon Sanchez Pizquain are the two hardest ties Barca will play at home and away bar the two Clasico's. Any team that has already picked up 9 points from matches against Seville, Valencia, Real and Villareal has surely proven something. Especially considering how abysmally bad they were 6 months prior.

But instead one of the true tests is Mallorca? A team that may go into administration if it doesn't find an owner, a team that has sold Ibagaza, Guiza and Gutierrez over the summer, a team with the 3rd worst defensive record in La Liga, the team in a relegation struggle?

Obviously nothing is won yet at the halfway stage, and things can change dramatically, but to put Barcelona's success thus far down to only playing weak opposition is pretty ridiculous. Only 7 points better off than last year? But they've only got the best attacking and defensive record to, and only on a 14 game unbeaten streak. Only only only....... only.

LuckyLloyd

Keane2097 deserves a medal for his posts in this thread imo. Agree with his line of thought 100%.

ditpoker

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Fair enough that had slipped my mind though it didn't mean a shift in power by any means. In fact as I recall that year I think both Liverpool and Milan were nowhere near being top of their leagues. Interesting too to note where Milan are now. How the mighty have fallen.

while we're going around noting things, its interesting to note that Liverpool STILL havent come close to being champions of ANY league... but... i'm sure this has been covered!!

/hides for cover!

eZe^

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

When was the last time Italian teams did anything of note in the Champions League? .

Em, A.C won it the season before last.......... Believe it or not, SKY aren't always right.

bUILDERtHEbOB

Chelsea have played 4 of the teams in this round in 5 games and one only one game, they will not win the Champions League, IMO.

raven136

i have a feeling that juts 2 english sides will go through(united and liverpool)

Barca,Bayern,Roma,Villareal,Athletico to also progress.

Juve to beat Chelsea as unlike some on this forum i think the italian teams are fairly handy this season and expect Roma to do very well against Arsenal and Inter to win at home but lose away.

A very good draw and some tasty matches to look forward to/