Champions League Top 16 draw

eZe^

I think Bayern have an excellent outsiders shot at winning the whole thing.

redout

eagle eye wrote: »

Also, Inter Milan a work in progress? They won Serie A for the third time in a row last season and are on course for four in a row.

quote]

Technically they have only won two as they were awarded one that Juventus were stripped of. Also a point of note is that Juve the strongest team in Serie A were demoted to Serie B and AC Milan had a points handicap so Inter had it made easier and if anyone disputes that then go f*ck off with yourself because I really couldnt bother arguing with anyone who says otherwise. Juve also lost alot of good players when they were demoted:

Viera
Ibrahimovic
Cannavaro
Emerson
Zambrotta
Thuram

Were just some of the 20 yes I said 20 players that left the club because of the demotion given to the club. Inter had no Juve to contend with in 06/07 and AC Milan had the points handicap (AC Milan still won Champions league). 07/08 Milan were not up to much but Juve finished 3rd not bad for a team which had lost so many top players and in their first season back in Serie A.

Anyway the moral of the story is that Inter Milan benefited from AC Milan and especially Juventus punishment for the match fixing scandal. They are not there on merit. As regards Europe Inter are most certainlty a work in progress.

eagle eye

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Serie A is irrelevant in my eyes because as I said Italian football is no longer the force it once was. When was the last time Italian teams did anything of note in the Champions League?

Well the win has been pointed out by several people. Its also worth noting that last year both Milans won their respective groups before losing out to Arsenal and Liverpool and the year before Milan won it they were beaten by the champions of that year Barcelona in the semi-final.

eagle eye

redout wrote: »

eagle eye wrote: »

Also, Inter Milan a work in progress? They won Serie A for the third time in a row last season and are on course for four in a row.

quote]

Technically they have only won two as they were awarded one that Juventus were stripped of. Also a point of note is that Juve the strongest team in Serie A were demoted to Serie B and AC Milan had a points handicap so Inter had it made easier and if anyone disputes that then go f*ck off with yourself because I really couldnt bother arguing with anyone who says otherwise. Juve also lost alot of good players when they were demoted:

I'm aware of that first one, but the second one is not even questionable with the margin they won it by. And don't go posting if you don't want people to reply or disagree with you.

Mr.Nice Guy

eZe^ wrote: »

Em, A.C won it the season before last.......... Believe it or not, SKY aren't always right.

Yeah believe it or not I'm aware of that.

Milan's win didn't take Italian football out of the doldrums. The fact said team now looks to Phillippe Senderos to steady its ship tells you all you need to know about the current state of Italian football.

ditpoker

eagle eye wrote: »

Well the win has been pointed out by several people. Its also worth noting that last year both Milans won their respective groups before losing out to Arsenal and Liverpool and the year before Milan won it they were beaten by the champions of that year Barcelona in the semi-final.

i've read this three times, and (im not being funny) i still dont know what your point is!??!

Mr.Nice Guy

eagle eye wrote: »

Well the win has been pointed out by several people.

I hadn't noticed. :rolleyes::pac:

eagle eye wrote:

Its also worth noting that last year both Milans won their respective groups before losing out to Arsenal and Liverpool and the year before Milan won it they were beaten by the champions of that year Barcelona in the semi-final.

It's also worth noting AC Milan topped a group with Celtic second, Benfica third and Shaktar Donetsk last while Inter topped a group with Fenerbahce second, PSV third and CSKA Moscow last.

As soon as any of the Italian sides come up against the top sides they will be out mark my words.

Xavi6

Emmmm Mr.NiceGuy I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Milan won it two years ago. Just so ya know like. :pac:

raven136

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Yeah believe it or not I'm aware of that.

Milan's win didn't take Italian football out of the doldrums. The fact said team now looks to Phillippe Senderos to steady its ship tells you all you need to know about the current state of Italian football.

or just the current state of AC Milan

What does a team consisting of Cambiassio,Mancini,Quaresma,Balotelli and Ibrahimovic tell you about the state of Italian football?
Just because its not on tv here doesnt mean its crap.Inter and Juve are both very good and will be tough for any team.

redout

eagle eye wrote: »

redout wrote: »

I'm aware of that first one, but the second one is not even questionable with the margin they won it by. And don't go posting if you don't want people to reply or disagree with you.

Yes it is questionable. They had not won Serie A in nearly 20 years before the match scandal. The top side in the country was removed from the league and yet you say it is not questionable ? so how you can say it is not questionable is beyond me. Why did they not win the league until two of their biggest rivals were handicapped. It is very questionable and really if you dont see that then I dont think you are being rational.

Mr.Nice Guy

raven136 wrote: »

or just the current state of AC Milan

What does a team consisting of Cambiassio,Mancini,Quaresma,Balotelli and Ibrahimovic tell you about the state of Italian football?
Just because its not on tv here doesnt mean its crap.Inter and Juve are both very good and will be tough for any team.

Quaresma hardly got playing team in the Champions League. A waste of space in my fantasy football team and someone clearly not rated too highly by the special one!

The other three are good players but would you see Fergie desperate to have them in his side? Doubt it.

We can only speculate for now but I maintain Chelsea and United will get through relatively comfortably enough. I don't think it will be nail-biting.

eagle eye

redout wrote: »

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes it is questionable. They had not won Serie A in nearly 20 years before the match scandal. The top side in the country was removed from the league and yet you say it is not questionable ? so how you can say it is not questionable is beyond me.

Becuase they won it by such a large margin. And they proved again last season that it was no fluke with both themselves and Roma well clear of the pack.

dfx-

Glad for Liverpool to get Madrid, but if there's one team that you can securely back for Torres to have a scoreless quiet game against, it's Real :pac:

The problem for Liverpool is you have to attack Madrid to exploit them usually. Sitting back at the Bernabeu and letting them attack could mean game over.

One thing is sure, it isn't decided on form in December. More interesting ties in the UEFA Cup though, tbh.

redout

eagle eye wrote: »

redout wrote: »

Becuase they won it by such a large margin. And they proved again last season that it was no fluke with both themselves and Roma well clear of the pack.

Yes they were 35 points ahead of the 3rd place team in 06/07 with no Juventus in the division. The next season 07/08 they lose more games, win less games, score less goals and finish 13 points ahead of Juventus in 3rd still not having replaced all the top quality players which they had lost.

So a understrength Juve reappear in Serie A and Inter's 35 point gap from the year before is cut by nearly two thirds. Oh yes, very convincing indeed. As I said above you are not being rational. The four seasons prior to the match fixing scandal Inter finished 9, 10 , 14 and 15 points behind Juve in them seasons in which Juve won Serie A on three of those four seasons. I repeat my point from earlier that they are not in their position by merit and only because of Milans and especially Juventus punishment from the match fixing scandal. I certainly believe that to be the case and I believe so do a lot of others in the world of football.

eagle eye

redout wrote: »

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes they were 35 points ahead of the 3rd place team in 06/07 with no Juventus in the division. The next season 07/08 they lose more games, win less games, score less goals and finish 13 points ahead of Juventus in 3rd still not having replaced all the top quality players which they had lost.

So a understrength Juve reappear in Serie A and Inter's 35 point gap from the year before is cut by nearly two thirds. Oh yes, very convincing indeed. As I said above you are not being rational. The four seasons prior to the match fixing scandal Inter finished 9, 10 , 14 and 15 points behind Juve in them seasons in which Juve won Serie A on three of those four seasons. I repeat my point from earlier that they are not in their position by merit and only because of Milans and especially Juventus punishment from the match fixing scandal. I certainly believe that to be the case and I believe so do a lot of others in the world of football.

I love this bit.

As for the rest of it.:rolleyes::pac::rolleyes::pac:

eZe^

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Yeah believe it or not I'm aware of that.

Milan's win didn't take Italian football out of the doldrums. The fact said team now looks to Phillippe Senderos to steady its ship tells you all you need to know about the current state of Italian football.

Oh ya, the same Senderos who alot of Arsenal fans desperately want back in the January transfer window to steady their sinking ship? Or Flamini maybe? A player Arsenal would gag to have back. Who have Arsenal enlisted the help of this summer? Silvestre. Who have A.C acquired? Flamini, Senderos, Ronaldinho, Zambrotta and Shevchenko. I think I know who I'd more optimistic about as a fan.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I hadn't noticed. :rolleyes::pac:



It's also worth noting AC Milan topped a group with Celtic second, Benfica third and Shaktar Donetsk last while Inter topped a group with Fenerbahce second, PSV third and CSKA Moscow last.

As soon as any of the Italian sides come up against the top sides they will be out mark my words.

Celtic, Benfica, and PSV all have more European cups than Arsenal and Chelsea. Fenerbahce were close to knocking Chelsea out in the KO rounds. Celtic have only lost at home to Barcelona in the CL in how many years? Arsenal haven't finished top of their group in 3 fcuking years.

Just because you can't see Italian football doesn't mean it's in the doldrums, afterall, they are current world champions too. Roma, a team in 10th place in Serie A, 16 points behind leaders Inter, can top a group with the mighty infallible Chelsea, aswell as Italy being current world champions, and having one CL winner in the past 3. If that means Italian football is in the doldrums I hope Spain can enter the doldrums with them too in a few years.

SpAcEd OuT

Year in year out, same old crap everyone talking about the 'superior' english and Spanish sides whilst brushing aside the italian ones.. sky must really be doing their job. Those who think both Inter and Juventus aren't serious contenders for the CL are deluding themselves I read people here shrugging off Juventus yet at the same time talking up the threat of the mighty real madrid... have these same people even looked at Madrids group results?

There is an unjustificated belittling of Italian teams on this site every year come CL when posters actually realize for the first time in months that there are other leagues outside of England and Spain and the condescending attitude always follows in toe

SantryRed

How will United win easily?

Fergie has only ever beaten Mourinho once? I expect Arsenal to go through and one of United or Chelsea, can't see the two of them both going through.

eZe^

I think that's the important thing. Nobody is saying that the Italian teams are clear favourites, or that the English/ Spanish will run away with it. It's just a little frustrating when teams like Juventus and Inter, both with fantastic teams and pedigree are written off completely, mainly because of the lack of Serie A coverage.

At this stage imo the KO stages are evenly enough matched for all the Spanish, Italian and English teams (aswell as Bayern who I think have an excellent shot). You can see a potential winner from any of these nations really, it could quite easily be Inter's/ Chelsea's/ Barca's year. That's why I think this KO round is the best in the last decade, it seems alot more even than past years.

kingshankly

If some people are confident of the four English clubs going through the bookies are offering 11/2 it's a bit short for my liking with four tough games